Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72037 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#46882 Jan 11, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Are they in harmony? If not explain why not.
I have confidence in the work of Rabbi Raphael EDITOR of the, American Jewish HISTORY, Journal.
There is no reason under heaven for him to have FABRICATED his work plus given his training and jobs I am confident that he did his due diligence.
----------
In other words, the summary of your "later scholarly work" says that Rabbi Raphael "EDITOR of the quarterly journal, American Jewish HISTORY" did not have the requisite information when he wrote his book and so he FABRICATED it.
When were their source documents CREATED?
"Rabbi Raphael is both a rabbi and a TOP historian of Jewish history. For the last generation he has been the EDITOR of the quarterly journal, American Jewish History.
He is the Nathan and Sophia Gumenick Professor of Judaic Studies, Professor of Religion, and Chair, Department of Religion, The College of William and Mary, and a Visiting Fellow of Wolfson College, Oxford University.
\

from the above I take it you are incapable of reading ANY of my previous posts

This topic is closed
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46883 Jan 11, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
Why are you tilting at windmills? I am not even having this argument with you.
All I did was present additional updated refernces on the matter.
Straw Man Argument
A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[3][4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Thats you all day...
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46884 Jan 11, 2013
HughBe wrote:
Frijjy, in speaking about the later works I asked,when were their source documents CREATED?
Good point,needs to be addressed.
Eric

Berkeley, IL

#46885 Jan 11, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly you lack understanding. My question was asked BEFORE you asked yours. Yes it was not directed to you initially and that is because YOU were not a part of the discussion initially. However from the point of the sequence of the discussion your question came AFTER. Note my question was number 3 while yours was number 4 and in Jamaica 3 comes from 4.
Eric, YOUR post 46838
1.HughBe---Moses, David, Isaiah and Micah to name a few.(prophesied about Jesus)
2.Frijoles---yeah, right.not.Please stay in your own backyard
3.HughBe--- will your messiah be a mortal?
4.Eric--Did your messiah fulfill the prophecy of Micah 5:4-5?(Using the Jewish chapter and verse designation.)
Exactly, your question regarding mortality was addressed to Frijoles. I was responding to #1.
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46886 Jan 11, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly, your question regarding mortality was addressed to Frijoles. I was responding to #1.
Then answer Huge's question, Who did Moses, David, Isaiah and Micah to name a few prophesied about?
Eric

Berkeley, IL

#46887 Jan 11, 2013
SamBee wrote:
<quoted text>
Then answer Huge's question, Who did Moses, David, Isaiah and Micah to name a few prophesied about?
The moshiach who has not yet arrived.
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46888 Jan 11, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
The moshiach who has not yet arrived.
You mean the second comming? What is His name?
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46889 Jan 11, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
The moshiach who has not yet arrived.
Who did this for us then Eric if Moshiac has not yet arrived?

Yahshayahu 53

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Master revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#46890 Jan 11, 2013
SamBee wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point,needs to be addressed.
It would be amusing if you could state the point he was making, because I was not making an arguement - all I was doing was exposing him to references on his subject.
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46891 Jan 11, 2013
The 1999 scholarly works,When were their source documents created? do they per-date Rabbi Raphael works?
Eric

Berkeley, IL

#46892 Jan 11, 2013
SamBee wrote:
<quoted text>
Who did this for us then Eric if Moshiac has not yet arrived?
Yahshayahu 53
.
Do what? What action for "us" are you speaking?

I am more interested in:

And this shall be peace: when the Assyrian shall come into our land, and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight princes among men.

And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod with the keen-edged sword; and he shall deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our border.
SamBee

Orlando, FL

#46893 Jan 11, 2013
secret relationship between blacks and jews PDF

http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/books...
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#46894 Jan 11, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
The moshiach who has not yet arrived.
rabbee: what makes you think, They ain't here an observing you all? we only have about a thousand years, left to go in ThisStory of Creation again. and only about 60 years, prior to G-D, taking off for the day of rest again also.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#46895 Jan 11, 2013
SamBee wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the second comming? What is His name?
rabbee: the exact same as the last time, G-D gave This Whole Story of Creation about Them.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#46902 Jan 11, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
I look forward to read stories of his enemies.
Look for earliest episodes of this series posted on this thread, they were about his enemies who were conquered by the prophet.

Now we are at the end of series, before we take up the "sword of steel" cases.
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#46903 Jan 11, 2013
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-36

Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.

The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”

The Case of : ANSARS of Medina after the Battle of HUNAIN

Muslims of Madina, who were named “ANSARS” by Allah and His messenger, have a very distinguished position in the history of Islam. It is they who gave shelter to prophet and his companions, when they took flight from Makkah.

It is they who stood in front of whole Arabia and fought alongside Prophet and his companions. It is they who shared their land, their houses and their property which people who fled from Madina. They were with prophet at every critical juncture.

In fact it is very difficult to write down all their sacrifices in such a short space. Suufice it will be to say that they fulfilled the pledge they make to prophet, when they invited him to come to Madina.

Prophet used to love Madina and its original residents, with a love that was nothing short of Divine.

It was with their support and perseverance that Prophet finally conquered Makkah in 8 AH, paving the way for rapid spread of Islam thru out Arabia in a very short time.

Well knows battle of HUNAIN took place very close to the Opening of Makkah. This battle is also mentioned in Quran. Muslim army consisted of more that 12000 people, largest till that day and Muslims were confident that they cannot loose. Their opponents were Tribe of HAWAZIN, who were very good archers. In the initial phase of battle, Muslims were defeated and were running hither and thither, but due to perseverance of prophet and some of his companions, the tides were turned and Muslims won the battle.

In this battle Muslims got a large amount of War booty consisting of camels and sheep and goat. Prophet distributed from that booty large numbers of camels and goats to recently converted chiefs of Makkah and gave nothing and very little to ANSARS of Madina. On this some youngsters said “when the time of battle comes, we a re put in front and when the time of booty comes, others are kept in front”

This was relayed to prophet and he asked that all ANSARS and no-one else but themselves be gathered into a large tent.

(Contd.)

When ANSARS gathered, prophet came and asked that I have such and such from you, is it true. The elders said that some of the youngsters have said so, but not we the elders and leaders of our people.

Prophet asked “Were you not without guidance, and Allah guided you to the right path thru me?”

“Yes! O Allah’s messenger” they said.

“Were, you not divided lot and Allah united them thru me” Asked the prophet

\“Yes! O Allah’s messenger” they said.

“Were you not poor and Allah made you rich thru me?” Asked the prophet

“Yes! O Allah’s messenger” they said.

MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#46904 Jan 11, 2013
“No, but if you said, That you were rejected and we accepted you, You were alone, and we supported you, You were driven from your homes and we gave shelter to you, Then you will be true and your voice will be accepted” Said the prophet in a very emotional voice. All the ANSARS started weeping on hearing prophet saying so.

“O ANSARS are you not happy, that other people shall take camels and goats and sheep and you shall take Allah’ Messenger with yourselves?” Said the prophet in the same emotional voice.

“Yes, we are happy, O Allah’ messengers” Said the people in your voice.

“O ANSARS do you know, if there was no migration, I would have been one of the ANSARS, If people go into one valley and ANSARS into another valley, I will go to the ANSARS valley”

“ O Allah, have mercy on ANSARS, on their Children and the Children of their Children” Prayed the prophet.

Upon this the whole congregation started weeping with a loud voice and with those tears were washed any evil thoughts that had creeped into their minds.

Such was the “Sword of Psychology and Wisdom” which prophet used to enslave these ANSARS to his side for ever!

Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#46905 Jan 11, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Look for earliest episodes of this series posted on this thread, they were about his enemies who were conquered by the prophet.
Now we are at the end of series, before we take up the "sword of steel" cases.
rabbee: being an enemy to someone, does not mean they are an enemy of G-D. any more than calling anyone a prophet, means they really are one.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#46906 Jan 12, 2013
SamBee wrote:
The 1999 scholarly works,When were their source documents created? do they per-date Rabbi Raphael works?
I still have no idea what the point you are raising.

On the surface, you could answer your own question if you read the two books. Why argue with someone who hasnt read the books? And in the same token, how can you label another posters view as "good" when he hasnt read the books either?

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#46907 Jan 12, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Look for earliest episodes of this series posted on this thread, they were about his enemies who were conquered by the prophet.
Now we are at the end of series, before we take up the "sword of steel" cases.
A very byzantian reply. Or as rabbee pointed out the simple naming of people as enemy does not make it so. maybe he and the ansar were just out to get their hands on their synagoge, land, goods, tax, trade, wifes, daughters etc.

What Stefano asks for ( apart ofcourse from the valid question whether an actual person existed ):
Muhammad, during his Mecca years, was ridiculed for his confused sayings by his own tribe of Quraish. He was called “shaeron majnoon”—crazed poet.

More of this kid of ridicule would make the person more real ( a drawback if one historically doubts the existence. Though we do not know if it was actually about him. It might be some over the top ruler who's acts and reaction to invasions and killings were attributed to.)

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