Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72024 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#39977 Aug 20, 2012
Love wrote:
Happening again and again? Another chance to be redeemed?
I dont know of any teaching in the Torah that tells of this happening?
What scripture teaches this?
When I look into the scriptures, I see this message...
..."Man's days are determined; you have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed."...Job 14:5
..."When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing."...Psalm 146:4
I can find nothing about reincarnation in the scriptures.
Neither did I. I could not even find incarnation in the Holy Scriptures.
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#39978 Aug 20, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>So the fact that the NKJV has gotten around to reading the original and correcting their book is of no importance to you. You're using training wheels instead of learning the language.
You can continue posting apologetics sites - it is of no value in light of the original texts. We know from past and recent history that the church and their missionaries will stoop to any low to get their point across.
"God against the Indians" Norman Lewis
You still didnt address as to why Proverbs 31:2 uses the aramaic word "bar" to clearly mean "son".

How long are you going to tap dance around this question without addressing it?

Hint...Insults, quibbling, and evasions, are not the same thing as scientific or historical linguistic evidence.
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#39979 Aug 20, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither did I. I could not even find incarnation in the Holy Scriptures.
Incarnation would be when Adam and Eve were formed.
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#39980 Aug 20, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I deny that as an outsider.
Psalm 2 has nothing to do with a Messiah. It is simply an admonition or warning to the rulers, judges and kings to have fear of the LORD.
If one adds Kiss the Son, then the passage would show the Son as very petty, angry in a jiffy and full of wrath, ready to destroy. Neither Jesus nor any other Prophet fits the bill.
The verses in various versions of the OT have been forged to show a Son. The word BAR is Aramaic, not Hebrew.
If one reads the footnotes, one will come across comments "Hebrew uncertain", "Difficult Hebrew text of verses", etc.
OT versions came from the Greek and Latin Texts and yet they talk about Hebrew and find the Hebrew words difficult.
I found only two honest translations from Christian sources:
GNT: 10 Now listen to this warning, you kings; learn this lesson, you rulers of the world:
11 Serve the Lord with fear; tremble12 and bow down to him; or else his anger will be quickly aroused, and you will suddenly die. Happy are all who go to him for protection.
No kissing of son in here.
NKJV: Footnotes:
Psalm 2:12 Septuagint and Vulgate read Embrace discipline; Targum reads Receive instruction.
Psalm 2:12 Septuagint reads the Lord.
NASB FOOTNOTE: Psalm 2:12 Lit Kiss; some ancient versions read Do homage purely, or, Lay hold of instruction
What it means is that the ancient versions never had "Kiss the Son" and modern versions have forged according to the agenda of the Church.
If you deny it is a Messianic Psalm, then what about this part?

"The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One."...Psalm 2:2

The term "Anointed One" means Messiah. That is what it is about.

Do you deny that the text that mentions the Anointed One, is Messianic?
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#39982 Aug 20, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
If you deny it is a Messianic Psalm, then what about this part?
"The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One."...Psalm 2:2
The term "Anointed One" means Messiah. That is what it is about.
Do you deny that the text that mentions the Anointed One, is Messianic?
The anoited on means anoited one. The baggage you bring to that term is from your background. Anoited one to a Hebrew reader does not read "Jesus". It does not read "Jesus is Gods son". It does not read "Jesus has risen". All of that you impute on the word.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#39983 Aug 20, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither did I. I could not even find incarnation in the Holy Scriptures.
The evangelicists take great pain to claim they have found the word "son" in the Hebrew, but yet they forget the fact that NOWHERE in any of the Hebrew Scriptures (tanakh) does it define a Jesus figure as God son. That stuff all came later with the NT.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#39984 Aug 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The evangelicists take great pain to claim they have found the word "son" in the Hebrew, but yet they forget the fact that NOWHERE in any of the Hebrew Scriptures (tanakh) does it define a Jesus figure as God son. That stuff all came later with the NT.
rabbee: G-D made Adam in OUR IMAGE. HE And She G-D made Them. in this world that does not want to understand. understand that jesus has never been one of Adam's Names or titles, either before seperation or after seperation. or that eve has never been, the name of the woman. there isn't even a woman by that name, mentioned in TheWhole Torah Scroll. so it is a deceptive myth, from the clever subtle beasts of the fields. get you to tell one lie, to make all their other lies easier to believe.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#39985 Aug 20, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither did I. I could not even find incarnation in the Holy Scriptures.
rabbee: "you shall not prostrate yourself to them nor worship them, for IAM HaShem*, your G-D - a jealous G-D, WHO visits the sins of fathers upon children to the third and fourth generation, for my enemies; but WHO knows kindness for thousands [of generations] to those who love ME and observe MY commandments."
tom

Lakewood, NJ

#39986 Aug 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The Christian Family Values Party Strikes Again!
----------
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.as...
'Republican lawmaker skinny-dipped on Israel trip'
WASHINGTON - A group of Republican lawmakers and staff jumped into Israel's Lake Kinneret (Sea of Galilee) last year after a night of dining and drinking, and one freshman congressman swam naked, Republican aides confirmed late on Sunday.
The incident, first reported by Politico on Sunday, was investigated by the FBI and led Republican leaders in the House of Representatives to reprimand the 30 lawmakers on the privately funded trip.
Representative Kevin Yoder stripped naked before jumping into the Sea of Galilee after dining and drinking at a waterside restaurant in the town of Tiberias, Politico reported, citing more than a dozen sources, including eyewitnesses. Other participants, including the daughter of another congressman, swam fully clothed, while some lawmakers partially disrobed, Politico reported.
Two senior Republican aides who spoke on condition of anonymity confirmed the report's accuracy. Yoder's office was not immediately available for comment.
Politico quoted Yoder as saying in a statement about the incident that he and his wife, Brooke, joined some colleagues for dinner.
"After dinner I followed some members of Congress in a spontaneous and very brief dive into the sea and, regrettably, I jumped into the water without a swimsuit," Yoder said in the statement.
"It is my greatest honor to represent the people of Kansas in Congress and (for) any embarrassment I have caused for my colleagues and constituents, I apologize," the statement read.
The August 2011 trip was sponsored and paid for by the American Israel Educational Foundation, which is affiliated with AIPAC, an influential pro-Israel advocacy group.
Representatives Steve Southerland, Tom Reed, Ben Quayle, Jeff Denham and Michael Grimm were among the more than 20 lawmakers and staff that jumped into the Sea of Galilee, Politico said.
Senior aides to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor and House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy also went swimming in the freshwater lake, which is where Christians believe that Jesus walked on water.
Politico quoted sources as saying that neither Cantor nor McCarthy participated in the late-night dip and Cantor later rebuked his Republican colleagues over the incident.
Obama Frijoles Failing
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#39987 Aug 20, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
If you deny it is a Messianic Psalm, then what about this part?
"The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One."...Psalm 2:2
The term "Anointed One" means Messiah. That is what it is about.
Do you deny that the text that mentions the Anointed One, is Messianic?
Yes, I deny that.

I don't see any Messiah in there. Anointed one does not mean only Messiah. Kings of Israel were also anointed. Right?

What about this? 1 Samuel 9:16 Today's New International Version (TNIV)

16 “About this time tomorrow I will send you a man from the land of Benjamin. Anoint him ruler over my people Israel; he will deliver them from the hand of the Philistines. I have looked on my people, for their cry has reached me.”

So, anointed one also means one who was appointed or anointed as a ruler or a king.

And that anointed one was David, who was anointed as a king.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#39988 Aug 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The evangelicists take great pain to claim they have found the word "son" in the Hebrew, but yet they forget the fact that NOWHERE in any of the Hebrew Scriptures (tanakh) does it define a Jesus figure as God son. That stuff all came later with the NT.
Indeed!

I know the Septuagint was there as a general book for the Greek readers of Ptolemy's library. But it was neither read nor recited as a Scripture by the Jews.

Personally, I believe the Christians' OT, as we see now, was written after the arrival of the NT.

I don't consider Proverbs a Scripture and I do not know why a book of wisdom is taken to show Messiah? Can I have your view on this, please?
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#39989 Aug 20, 2012
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: "you shall not prostrate yourself to them nor worship them, for IAM HaShem*, your G-D - a jealous G-D, WHO visits the sins of fathers upon children to the third and fourth generation, for my enemies; but WHO knows kindness for thousands [of generations] to those who love ME and observe MY commandments."
I know that, Rabbee.

I was actually denying incarnation.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#39990 Aug 20, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed!
I know the Septuagint was there as a general book for the Greek readers of Ptolemy's library. But it was neither read nor recited as a Scripture by the Jews.
Personally, I believe the Christians' OT, as we see now, was written after the arrival of the NT.
I don't consider Proverbs a Scripture and I do not know why a book of wisdom is taken to show Messiah? Can I have your view on this, please?
In the Jewish tradition Proverbs are part of ketuvim (writings) which is the third component of Tanakh. So yes, they would be called scriptures. However, the term scriptures, usually, but not always, is a Christian term. We call it Torah.

The difference is in the intended use. Fundamentalist Christians look to scriptures as a source of authority, while Jews look at PARTS of the Torah as authority and PARTS of the Torah as expressions of praise and allegory.

Serious theology is generally not gleaned from Ketuvim, however, Ketuvim is often quoted to support an idea that is based initially and primarliy in the 5 books section of the Torah*. THats one of the reasons we dont take stake a lot of claim in examing the Psalms or the Proverbs for Jewish Law - we see those sections as praise, as expressive poetry.

*Tanakh means Torah(5 Books of Moses), Neviim(prophets) and ketuvim. But dont be confused because Tanakh as a whole is also called Torah.

GuerreroRay

Brooklyn, NY

#39991 Aug 20, 2012
what Jerry said I am amazed that any body can profit $7827 in 4 weeks on the computer. did you read this web page http://goo.gl/UUZFR
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#39993 Aug 20, 2012
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I deny that.
I don't see any Messiah in there. Anointed one does not mean only Messiah. Kings of Israel were also anointed. Right?
What about this? 1 Samuel 9:16 Today's New International Version (TNIV)
16 “About this time tomorrow I will send you a man from the land of Benjamin. Anoint him ruler over my people Israel; he will deliver them from the hand of the Philistines. I have looked on my people, for their cry has reached me.”
So, anointed one also means one who was appointed or anointed as a ruler or a king.
And that anointed one was David, who was anointed as a king.
Anoint is one thing. This text says "anointed one".

That means this anointed one is unlike all of the others who were anointed. This one is Gods anointed One.

At the time of this writing (Psalm), how many men had already been anointed by this time in Jewish history?

And while we are looking at the text, which one of the anointed men in Jewish history, had the entire Earth and all its rulers stand against God and Him?

Did David or Saul have China or Russia, America, or The Anglo-Saxons or Jutes, the Gauls, the Native Americans, the Greeks, and all of the etc,etc,etc, nations of the world stand against them?

Uh, no.

What about this next verse?

...""I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."...Psalm 2:6

Gods Holy hill? What does that mean? Any other scriptures to help clear this up for us? How about these ones below...

..."Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O LORD, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established."...Exodus 15:17

Notice that comes from the book of Exodus (book of Shemot)?

Where was the nation Israel when the events in Exodus were happening?

Do you think this passage from Shemot was talking about David, or Solomons Temple, or any other things which had not been yet?

Because unless you do, then the symbology of Psalm 2:6 would mean that you are wrong, and the Messiah interpretation is correct.

So, what do you say is the meaning of the above quoted text from Exodus (Shemot)?
rider

Ishpeming, MI

#39994 Aug 20, 2012
The Royals and the Antichrist
Speaking of the Antichrist, somewhere lost in the clouds of greed and power a
man ... But He also comes from the tribe of Dan qualifying him as the false
messiah. Daniel 11.21 There shall arise a vile man, to whom they (Jews) shall
not give the ..... Celtic Pride, Anglo-Unity, KKK, etc., all will unite under one
banner "House of ...

http://www.cephasministry.com/prophecy_royals... - 41k - Cached - Similar Pages
Christian Identity
Identity's current influence ranges from Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazi groups to the
... The Lost Tribes had purportedly made their way to Europe, and from them ....
Davis and Dan Gayman, became a fugitive after allegedly bombing gay bars, the ...

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Christian_Ide... - 46k - Cached - Similar Pages
What was the race of Jesus Christ, the Messiah?
... have yelled that Jesus is Black and the KKK are advocates that Jesus was
White..... But David violated that law and sinned by marrying out of his tribe....
and his band forced the tribes that fell under Judah which were Dina, Asher, Dan,
... Jesus said to his disciples that he was seeking the lost sheep of the House of
Israel.

http://www.angelfire.com/oh/AncientKnowledge/... - 30k -
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#39995 Aug 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The evangelicists take great pain to claim they have found the word "son" in the Hebrew, but yet they forget the fact that NOWHERE in any of the Hebrew Scriptures (tanakh) does it define a Jesus figure as God son. That stuff all came later with the NT.
Please allow me to point you to see how the word "Anointed One" was written in Hebrew and means Messiah (though translated as Anointed One).

And also, please allow me to show you the complexity by which the understanding of Psalm 2 being a Messianic scripture was long understood by rabbis of antiquity.

This is lengthy, so I will show you yet another link...

Messiah—The Son of God?- Blue Letter Bible
www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/mark_eastman/mes...

So, there we go.

The current rabbinical teaching of the Messiah as being merely a mortal man is fairly new in Judaism, as the link attests to with credible historical evidence.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#39996 Aug 20, 2012
ma'asiyim
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#39998 Aug 20, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
ma'asiyim
Im really not sour like the Pharises were. I was just asking you to view a link and see what it says.

I still wish well for ye!:)
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#40000 Aug 20, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Im really not sour like the Pharises were. I was just asking you to view a link and see what it says.
I still wish well for ye!:)
that was meant for the post before yours.

Your post snuck in.

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