Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

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Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision. Full Story

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#284213 Feb 16, 2013
When I had said something about viability of an infant being about potential of the newborn infant to survive without medical help, I should have known better. I should not have it be a given that everyone would understand the obvious; infant having been given ALS until such time that it could survive without it. I should have explained for those who can't uderstand anything, because then they come back with stupid questions about what they didn't understand in the 1st place, and with more questions, because the obvious not being stated messed with their brain and confused them further.

Any full term or preemie newborn infant that needs ALS is given that ALS when the doctors see the POTENTIAL of that infant to survive with the help, until its body is strong enough to survive on its own. If the infant dies while being given ALS, then obviously the (viability/capability) of that infant's body to survive wasn't what the doctors thought it was.

The determination made about an infant, and the determination made about a fetus are obviously made at different stages of that child's life.

For a fetus, its mother's womb is NLS (natural life support).
The determination is made while the fetus is in utero as to whether or not that child's body is at a stage where its viability/capability can survive with or without ALS,(artificial life support) once outside of the womb.

WHY do we have to explain this as though we're explaining to children?
Because PCers who post here are so mind bogglingly ignorant. Not only do they not understand words, they can't even read the definitions for comprehension.
Bottom line, viability in the abortion issue is NOT about the infant already born, but the potential of the fetus while in utero to survive once born, with or without medical help. That's the medical and legal definition abou a fetus.

An infant already born has nothing to do with the abortion issue, because killing an already born child wouldn't be called "abortion".

That's the simple logic those in the PC camp miss. Those who argue viability as being about being already born and surviving without ALS is so ridculously illogical.

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#284214 Feb 16, 2013
carol wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you call a developing baby with a beating heart with working organs and sucks its thumb a human being?
The human heart starts beating on its own in the first half of the first trimester.
Scientists, for the life of them, can't figure out why or how that happens.
Hello Guppy.

"Scientists, for the life of them, can't figure out why or how that happens."

It's called an SA node. The heart's own pacemaker.
Obskeptic

Livonia, MI

#284215 Feb 16, 2013
carol wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you call a developing baby with a beating heart with working organs and sucks its thumb a human being?
The human heart starts beating on its own in the first half of the first trimester.
Scientists, for the life of them, can't figure out why or how that happens.
These are some of the same scientists that suggest that man can control the climate of the earth. What you just described is a human being to everyone except liberals. Since they are way smarter then everyone else with a different opinion, and of course a liberal is never wrong about anything, just as one, they know that its not a human being at all. In other words, an apple can be an orange if they say it is. If you dare to disagree, their wrath is what you'll get. So tolerant and compassionate of them, don't you think?
SapphireBlue

Orlando, FL

#284216 Feb 16, 2013
Obskeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
Try giving the book "Heaven is for Real" a read. The child was very young when he passed away and came back, with a story that would have been impossible to make up.
Way too many stories of near death experiences in all ages that couldn't have possibly been made up. Some were even upset and angry they came back.

Children, especially, have amazing recollections.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#284218 Feb 16, 2013
Doc Degall wrote:
<quoted text>
The authority of logic and common sense.
<quoted text>
And you disagree with this ? What physician would conclude that an infant could not possibly benefit from medical assistance....and then apply medical assistance ?
<quoted text>
Nope. Are you an attorney ?(Rhetorical)
<quoted text>
I've never said I would be the one to determine what constitutes basic minimal lung function. That would always be a determination made by a qualified physician.
<quoted text>
Yep that's it. It sounds even more ridiculous when you say it.
<quoted text>
It's not only wrong it's absurd. And not because I say it is.
<quoted text>
One need not have the medical qualification to make the judgement that a physician would NOT apply medical assistance to an infant he deems to be NON VIABLE.
<quoted text>
You challenged me and I stuck it where the sun don't shine. Suck it up and take it like a man. Bait my ass.
<quoted text>
It is. That's why the determination of viable/non viable will always be a subjective one made by a qualified physician on a case by case basis.
<quoted text>
Not even close. Bitter's statement can NEVER be validated. It is patently absurd. A physician ( not yours truly now ) will not apply medical assistance to an infant he has deemed NON VIABLE. If the physician ( not Doc D.) believes the infant can survive with medical assistance he will deem it viable and apply said assistance. Simple as that. By definition an infant cannot REACH viability with medical assistance because if it needs to REACH viability that means it is not yet viable. If it is not yet viable it cannot survive no matter WHAT medical assistance is applied.
This is basic stuff.
I honestly don't get how anyone can be as ignorant,(and so mind bogglingly arrogant in being so ignorant), as the ones posting here as PCers.

Viability in the [abortion] issue, is about a fetus already having reached a certain stage of development. That's not about a born infant, it's about a fetus. Once born, it's a completely different issue, and has nothing to do with a fetus or abortion.

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#284219 Feb 16, 2013
Obskeptic wrote:
<quoted text>
Try giving the book "Heaven is for Real" a read. The child was very young when he passed away and came back, with a story that would have been impossible to make up.
I read that book. It's a big pile of fantasy b.s. The very descriptions this child was giving of Jesus were just like the depictions shown in my old children's bible books from when I was a kid. The father's claims that the boy had never seen such pictures was far from credible. The father was some sort of pastor and no religious materials would have been very common around this family.

The mother had a miscarriage I believe, yet this boy met his unborn sister in Heaven? The father admitted the family was having some financial troubles and then here's this book. Uh huh.

“Peace be with you”

Since: Sep 09

Good will to all!

#284220 Feb 16, 2013
carol wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you call a developing baby with a beating heart with working organs and sucks its thumb a human being?
The human heart starts beating on its own in the first half of the first trimester.
Scientists, for the life of them, can't figure out why or how that happens.
What's stumping scientists?

"During early embryonic development, organ systems develop on an "as needed" basis. The brain and spinal cord, for example, which are required to control and coordinate the functions of other major organ systems of the body, are the first to form. At the end of the third week, the embryo is about two millimeters long and the blood vessels and alimentary canal have begun to develop. By the end of the fourth week, all major organs have begun to develop and the heart beats for the first time."

http://www.ehow.com/about_6801344_human-organ...

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#284221 Feb 16, 2013
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
What?
I said...which side of the fence are you finally going to fall on?
Guppy

Englewood, FL

#284222 Feb 16, 2013
carol wrote:
<quoted text>
These forums aren't really meant for the spreading of the gospel. It just happens sometimes because the topic inevitably comes up.
In fact, I never knew there were so many biblical scholars on the left until before this last election.
Anyone who is a biblical scholar has a screw loose. Why do people waste their time on something that never happened?
Christ died for our sins? Really, how does that make sense? And why does he have so many names?
Guppy

Englewood, FL

#284223 Feb 16, 2013
SapphireBlue wrote:
<quoted text>
Way too many stories of near death experiences in all ages that couldn't have possibly been made up. Some were even upset and angry they came back.
Children, especially, have amazing recollections.
Twilight Zone.
Guppy

Englewood, FL

#284224 Feb 16, 2013
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
I said...which side of the fence are you finally going to fall on?
What side do you think I am on now??

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#284225 Feb 16, 2013
Doc Degall wrote:
(continued)
<quoted text>
You should have stuck with your unamended version. It was closer to being accurate. There is no such thing as a "potentially viable" infant. A born infant is either viable ( with OR without medical assistance ) or it is not.
Only a fetus still in utero can be "potentially viable". A 10 week old fetus....as long as it remains in utero...is potentially viable.
<quoted text>
There was no point to concede. I've never considered medical assistance to be a requirement for viability. How stupid is that ? Who would ever consider an infant born at 36 weeks that needed no artificial support to survive...to be non viable ?
My position has always been that the need for medical assistance does not preclude a determination of viability.
<quoted text>
I don't think I've won anything. But I have demonstrated that I am right. And for a guy who's essentially written friggin treatises on here in an attempt to prove he was right, I wouldn't make little of that. It comes off as supremely hypocritical.
Doc: "There is no such thing as a "potentially viable" infant. A born infant is either viable ( with OR without medical assistance ) or it is not.
Only a fetus still in utero can be "potentially viable". A 10 week old fetus....as long as it remains in utero...is potentially viable."

Exactly.

They're screwing up because they don't understand the definition of viable/viability in the 1st place, or that a viable fetus and viable infant are 2 separate issues. Even when given the definitions, they don't have the adult reading comprehension skills to get any of it.

Obviously fetus and born infant are not at the same stage of life. Viability of a fetus and viability of an infant are about 2 different stages of that child's life. Only one of those has to do with the abortion issue, and that's viability of the fetus. Viability is something a fetus "reaches" [before] being born, so a fetus doesn't need to "reach" anything once born. Once born it's not a fetus anymore. Except in Katie's screwed up logic.

Their argument is about born infants and is why they'll always be wrong about what viability of a fetus is. The medical and legal definition of viability/viable are clear, to anyone with adult intelligence.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#284226 Feb 16, 2013
Doc Degall wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey....why wasn't this post removed Mr. Moderator ? We had a deal !
I can't possibly answer this !!!
LOL, their paranoid ideas about all that displayed just how irrational the PC nutcases are. Not once did they consider any rational explanation. It went stupid to completely irrational in 1 sec flat.

Logic would have told them, certain people here are not afraid to respond to posts. Why would they think others would report them and have their posts removed, and for the reasons they suggested? Because that's what they would do, and those would be the reasons why.
Guppy

Englewood, FL

#284227 Feb 16, 2013
carol wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you call a developing baby with a beating heart with working organs and sucks its thumb a human being?
The human heart starts beating on its own in the first half of the first trimester.
Scientists, for the life of them, can't figure out why or how that happens.
Yes, it is a human being. If there were a god, there would be no need for abortions. If he is all knowing and all seeing he wouldn't let the girl/woman get pregnant in the first place. He is bogus. Abortion is sad, but is there a good alternative? No.

All the religious freaks on here should get together and promise these girls/women that if they will forgo an abortion, they will adopt the baby. Case solved.

Someone I know lives very close to an abortion clinic. Everyday, it's the same creepy, religious fools who are out there shouting at these girls as they walk in. It's usually freaky men.
Guppy

Englewood, FL

#284228 Feb 16, 2013
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Guppy.
"Scientists, for the life of them, can't figure out why or how that happens."
It's called an SA node. The heart's own pacemaker.
Hello Red.
SapphireBlue

Orlando, FL

#284229 Feb 16, 2013
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
I read that book. It's a big pile of fantasy b.s. The very descriptions this child was giving of Jesus were just like the depictions shown in my old children's bible books from when I was a kid. The father's claims that the boy had never seen such pictures was far from credible. The father was some sort of pastor and no religious materials would have been very common around this family.
The mother had a miscarriage I believe, yet this boy met his unborn sister in Heaven? The father admitted the family was having some financial troubles and then here's this book. Uh huh.
Children and adults can recount events going on around them long after they were pronounced dead.

Many recount conversations by those attending them and objects in a room that couldn't have possibly been seen from their vantage point before they died.

This simply can't be ignored or explained away.

Modern research on near-death experiences have come from several academic disciplines including medicine, psychology and psychiatry. Among them are the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, British Journal of Psychology and American Journal of Disease of Children.

However, cases of NDEs go back to ancient times and Plato.
SapphireBlue

Orlando, FL

#284230 Feb 16, 2013
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it is a human being. If there were a god, there would be no need for abortions. If he is all knowing and all seeing he wouldn't let the girl/woman get pregnant in the first place. He is bogus. Abortion is sad, but is there a good alternative? No.
All the religious freaks on here should get together and promise these girls/women that if they will forgo an abortion, they will adopt the baby. Case solved.
Someone I know lives very close to an abortion clinic. Everyday, it's the same creepy, religious fools who are out there shouting at these girls as they walk in. It's usually freaky men.
So our free will and personal choices are pointless? You'd rather we be created as robots?

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#284231 Feb 16, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
Always fantasizing about my ass. Closet case.
<quoted text>

You ignore posts by PLers who OWN you in discussion, claiming their posts aren't "interesting", yet respond to nutcases like "zach" who post: "Hey homo....did ya get that big fat boner outta your ass yet.....I heard you were struggling big time and you didn't want hubby seeing you with another man you dickstain.....LMFAO" with:
cpeter1313 wrote:
Always fantasizing about my ass. Closet case.
<quoted text>
Such and intelligent and mature response.

I'm sure you wouldn't find it interesting to have your ass handed to you by PLers, on the abortion topic, and having it expected of you to prove your ridiculous claims when you can't.
SapphireBlue

Orlando, FL

#284232 Feb 16, 2013
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Guppy.
"Scientists, for the life of them, can't figure out why or how that happens."
It's called an SA node. The heart's own pacemaker.
The question you need to ask yourself is if man could create a human beating heart. From scratch.

“Pro-Life”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#284233 Feb 16, 2013
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course now the basta@rd has to actually see the post.
When I brought up one of Doc's past eff-ups he told me to forget the past. Funny coming from him, doncha think?
Toots, you're not worth the credit you're giving yourself. You don't have the intelligence to intimidate anyone with your posts, and certainly not people who OWN you PCers in discussion.

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