Scientists say they have proved climate change is real, now mus...

Full story: Hartford Courant

Scientists studying the changing nature of the Earth's climate say they have completed one crucial task - proving beyond a doubt that global warming is real.
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7,461 - 7,480 of 7,942 Comments Last updated Aug 14, 2013
PHD

Overton, TX

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#7785
Feb 5, 2013
 

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No, they are greedy.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#7787
Feb 5, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
Nothing to say about my post?
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
<quoted text>
Okay, I'll say something.
"Drill baby, drill" is neither a sustainable economic nor an effective energy policy unless you are an Alaskan housewife who should have stayed home.
And then there's this,
"Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
PHD

Overton, TX

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#7788
Feb 5, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I'll say something.
"Drill baby, drill" is neither a sustainable economic nor an effective energy policy unless you are an Alaskan housewife who should have stayed home.
And then there's this,
"Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
That sound you hear is applause for your post. Let me add that the pigs will fly first. Maybe a shout out is in order.

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

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#7789
Feb 7, 2013
 

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PHD wrote:
<quoted text>There you go again making an ASSumption of your---self. One could say based on your various word choices you have less than a K level education. Its not trash its fact they spew scientific science fiction and nothing more.
Actually, given the words I tend to use I could not have less than a pre K level of education. In fact, the best pre K schools are only teaching simple words. Many schools do not teach words like education until about the third grade if not later.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#7790
Feb 7, 2013
 

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Here's something tina missed a long time ago:

Here's the short version of everything you need to know about global warming. First, the consensus of the scientific community has shifted from skepticism to near-unanimous acceptance of the evidence of an artificial greenhouse effect. Second, while artificial climate change may have some beneficial effects, the odds are we're not going to like it. Third, reducing emissions of greenhouse gases may turn out to be much more practical and affordable than currently assumed.

Its title was "Case Closed: The Debate about Global Warming Is Over." The year was 2006, yet tina still claims it was disproven in 2007 or 2008 etc.

A lot of catching up to do, tina!

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

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#7791
Feb 7, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Been there done that and don't see a reason to do it again. Flip back a few pages. You either forgot through convenience or it is beyond your comprehension. I suspect the latter, though it completely baffles me how such a simple thing could be.
Why don't you stop before (the unlikely event that) it dawns on you why you should be embarrassed?
<quoted text>
CM wrote:
Alright, then. The Greenland ice sheet is about 1/210 the area of the global water surface and averages 5000 feet thick. Reduce that by 10%(water also varies in density according to its temperature) for the volume of ice compared to the volume of water gives you "water thickness" of about 4500 feet. 210 divided into 4500 = 21.4 feet.(I'll grant that as seawater level rise, the continental slope increases the area of the ocean surface, so I'll go with the 6 meter vs. the 7 meter approximation.) Do you suffer from some infirmity that prohibits you from those same simple calculations?
And again, that does not at all address the rest of the landbound ice - just the Greenland Ice sheet.
<quoted text>
CM wrote:
Not only are you barking up the wrong tree, you have the tree confused with a sailboat. Landbound ice displaces ZERO ZILCH NADA NO water until it enters a body of water. Even so, if you float a bucket containing either a lb of ice or a lb. of water, both will displace EXACTLY the same volume of water. 2 ships can weigh the same and have a completely different densities - but they still DISPLACE THE SAME tonnage. This is ELEMENTARY
Did you actually do the math or just rely on someone else's work. I know I have done the math and discovered that if Greenland Ice was to melt all this second that you might get a few waves but the end result would be no visible change in the ocean levels. There just ins't enough water there. While the amount of water in the Greenland Ice Sheet looks impressive it is barely a minor fraction of the water in just one of the world's oceans let alone all of the oceans. You talk about how thick the ice sheet is but failed to notice how deep the ocean is. Also you had your shore line gradient backwards. It according to research is about 14 degrees not 76 degress. Even if you added the Antartic to the total you would still be a little short to reach 6 meters.

You seem to forget that the oceans cover 70.9% of the earths surface. That your 21.5 feet has to add to something that covers approx 139,400,000 square miles. Even more telling is just looking at the map of Greenland. Yours ins't the first time I have had to visit this subject and later many discovered that the numbers for Greenland were just not adding up so they trotted out the thermal expansion idea without thinking about how much heat it would take to change deep ocean temperatures.

Also, when the ice is float in water like a sailboat it displaces only the amount of water that it would occupy when it melted.

http://ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/global/etopo1_ocean_...

http://www.examiner.com/article/new-evidence-...

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#7792
Feb 7, 2013
 

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PHD wrote:
<quoted text>There you go again making an ASSumption of your---self. One could say based on your various word choices you have less than a K level education. Its not trash its fact they spew scientific science fiction and nothing more.
Tina admits to at least a 3rd grade education. Now, who's eating crow, PHD? LOL!
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

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#7793
Feb 7, 2013
 

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tiny-minded anne wrote:
Did you actually do the math or just rely on someone else's work. I know I have done the math and discovered that if Greenland Ice was to melt all this second that you might get a few waves but the end result would be no visible change in the ocean levels.
'tiny-minded anne' can't apply math properly to come with an accurate result. Not in this post, but in the past,'tiny-minded anne' gave a website that actually countered her own argument & confirmed what AGW advocates have stated.

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

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#7794
Feb 7, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
Here's something tina missed a long time ago:
Here's the short version of everything you need to know about global warming. First, the consensus of the scientific community has shifted from skepticism to near-unanimous acceptance of the evidence of an artificial greenhouse effect. Second, while artificial climate change may have some beneficial effects, the odds are we're not going to like it. Third, reducing emissions of greenhouse gases may turn out to be much more practical and affordable than currently assumed.
Its title was "Case Closed: The Debate about Global Warming Is Over." The year was 2006, yet tina still claims it was disproven in 2007 or 2008 etc.
A lot of catching up to do, tina!
Oh please bring up the consensus argument. I have tons a prepared information to bury that in. But just to keep it simple the word consensus is not a scientific but a political and often has been used to support concepts that were later discovered to be wrong. At one point the consensus of all the learned men on earth was that the earth was flat and that it was the center of the universe.

The entire consensus took a major hit when climate scientist started publishing studies that disproved AGW. It also took hits when it was discovered that the IPCC had published opinions as fact in the AR4 and Climate Gate and the CRU added another hit.

Of course at one time the consensus was that man was going to cause an ice age. The truth is that the consensus was nothing more than an attempt by a few to try and end the discussion before they lost it. That your consensus is only backed by a smalled and shrinking handful of climate scientist.

Funny when you say I have a lot of catching up to do that it appears that you have several times the catching up to do. In fact a few people noticed that while the CO2 levels rose between the 40's and 70's in the US that temperatures actually decreased.

The problem with your short version is it leaves out all those little annoying facts. You talk about one article that declared case close without remembering that later it was discovered that some of the sources used to declare case close were later discovered to be more fiction than fact. Things like the IPCC AR4 and the CRU's work. Your case close was written by Gregg Easterbrook, who has never had a peer reviewed paper on the subject published and only seem to write for the Atlantic Monthy, New York Times, and others that are not normally sources for peer reviewed publications but have a history of leaning one way. Or in other words, he is a journalist.

Instead of worrying about me you should try to catch up if possible. After all, right now all you can see ahead of you is my dust disappearing over the horizon. Consensus has been a dead subject for a while now.

http://owenstrachan.com/2010/03/09/weekly-sta...

http://www.informationliberation.com/...

http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/...

http://www.danling.com/earthling/Docs/Climate...

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

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#7795
Feb 7, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Tina admits to at least a 3rd grade education. Now, who's eating crow, PHD? LOL!
Actually I hold two degrees and have a third in progress.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#7796
Feb 7, 2013
 

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Those are the global warming degrees tina is lying about?

She does not have a degree called BA or BS. Period.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#7797
Feb 7, 2013
 

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tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you actually do the math or just rely on someone else's work. I know I have done the math and discovered that if Greenland Ice was to melt all this second that you might get a few waves but the end result would be no visible change in the ocean levels. There just ins't enough water there. While the amount of water in the Greenland Ice Sheet looks impressive it is barely a minor fraction of the water in just one of the world's oceans let alone all of the oceans. You talk about how thick the ice sheet is but failed to notice how deep the ocean is. Also you had your shore line gradient backwards. It according to research is about 14 degrees not 76 degress. Even if you added the Antartic to the total you would still be a little short to reach 6 meters.
You seem to forget that the oceans cover 70.9% of the earths surface. That your 21.5 feet has to add to something that covers approx 139,400,000 square miles. Even more telling is just looking at the map of Greenland. Yours ins't the first time I have had to visit this subject and later many discovered that the numbers for Greenland were just not adding up so they trotted out the thermal expansion idea without thinking about how much heat it would take to change deep ocean temperatures.
Also, when the ice is float in water like a sailboat it displaces only the amount of water that it would occupy when it melted.
http://ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/global/etopo1_ocean_...
http://www.examiner.com/article/new-evidence-...
The complete melt of the Greenland ice sheet is hypothetical. I obviously found the numbers and did the math, and provided explanation of how and where those numbers applied. The depth of the ocean is meaningless. If you add an ounce of water to a test tube the water will rise the same amount no matter how tall the test tube is. The addition to the oceans of Greenland melt water wouldn't be 21.5 feet - it would be 4,500 feet x 836,300 SQUARE MILES.(Gawd... yer denser than iridium.) The shoreline gradient is certainly a factor, but your numbers come from a study of waveform dynamics and have NOTHING to do with area of the oceanic surface. If the Greenland ice sheet melts, as you point out there will also be melt of permanent ice in other areas - and the addition of those waters will easily offset your shoreline gradient issue, anyway.
If you weren't so preoccupied with disproving me, you would be able to recognize the ballpark validity of the results. If you have done the math yourself and come up with significantly different results, all I can add is ALWAYS be sure you use a tax service. The IRS doesn't forgive on the grounds of incompetence.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#7798
Feb 7, 2013
 

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tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I hold two degrees and have a third in progress.
And yet there is so much you are utterly incapable of comprehending. Pray tell, what field(s) are these degrees in?

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

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#7799
Feb 7, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
The complete melt of the Greenland ice sheet is hypothetical. I obviously found the numbers and did the math, and provided explanation of how and where those numbers applied. The depth of the ocean is meaningless. If you add an ounce of water to a test tube the water will rise the same amount no matter how tall the test tube is. The addition to the oceans of Greenland melt water wouldn't be 21.5 feet - it would be 4,500 feet x 836,300 SQUARE MILES.(Gawd... yer denser than iridium.) The shoreline gradient is certainly a factor, but your numbers come from a study of waveform dynamics and have NOTHING to do with area of the oceanic surface. If the Greenland ice sheet melts, as you point out there will also be melt of permanent ice in other areas - and the addition of those waters will easily offset your shoreline gradient issue, anyway.
If you weren't so preoccupied with disproving me, you would be able to recognize the ballpark validity of the results. If you have done the math yourself and come up with significantly different results, all I can add is ALWAYS be sure you use a tax service. The IRS doesn't forgive on the grounds of incompetence.
And you left out some very important factors in your calculations. You forgot the very oceans which you are claiming that would rise. The fact that you referred to test tube tells that you had not really considered all the facts. In this case you test tube needs to be replaced with a pie pan. There is a reason why so many dropped this for thermal expansion. In fact if you were to run the numbers on evaporation that the oceans are loosing a similar mass of water as the Greenland Ice sheet every day.

Also, some of the experts are expecting that the Greenland Ice Sheet will stop melting and start growing in a decade.

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

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#7800
Feb 7, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet there is so much you are utterly incapable of comprehending. Pray tell, what field(s) are these degrees in?
Computer science. I write computer models for a living along with other minor tasks.
PHD

Overton, TX

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#7801
Feb 7, 2013
 

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litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
'tiny-minded anne' can't apply math properly to come with an accurate result. Not in this post, but in the past,'tiny-minded anne' gave a website that actually countered her own argument & confirmed what AGW advocates have stated.
And you think topix doesn’t know what you publish? Attacks on me won't delete or erase what you are and what you do. You should stop making an ASSumption of your---self before you know the facts. Do contact topix to satisfy your accusations of the reprint BS your posting of what I said. You are a dumbASSumption of your---self again.
PHD

Overton, TX

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#7802
Feb 7, 2013
 

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tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, given the words I tend to use I could not have less than a pre K level of education. In fact, the best pre K schools are only teaching simple words. Many schools do not teach words like education until about the third grade if not later.
Glad to see you finally made it out of K level your spelling has improved.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#7803
Feb 7, 2013
 

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tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
And you left out some very important factors in your calculations. You forgot the very oceans which you are claiming that would rise. The fact that you referred to test tube tells that you had not really considered all the facts. In this case you test tube needs to be replaced with a pie pan. There is a reason why so many dropped this for thermal expansion. In fact if you were to run the numbers on evaporation that the oceans are loosing a similar mass of water as the Greenland Ice sheet every day.
Also, some of the experts are expecting that the Greenland Ice Sheet will stop melting and start growing in a decade.
For purposes of this forum it is a hypothetical exercise, as you well know. What your "some experts" (which might be an interesting and revealing investigation in itself, I'm sure) propose will happen in 10 years or a hundred has no effect on the static numbers.
Whether it is a pie pan, a test tube or a Slurpee cup - the point is that you intimated that the depth of a partially filled container has a bearing on the height of liquid that is added. That is erroneous. If you are talking about oceanic volume and thermal expansion, then fine - we might also calculate what additional rise could occur from oceanic warming, how those temperature changes will affect currents, how those currents affect weather, how weather affects climatology - and so on... Regardless, those factors were not your assertion. You were simply and clearly overwhelmed with the depth of the basins and overlaid that as an agent when in the limited scope of THIS specific strain of the topic it is actually a non sequitur. Bear in mind as well that the ice melt is FRESH water and because of density and temperature difference it will tend to mix above the thermocline.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

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#7804
Feb 7, 2013
 

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tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Computer science. I write computer models for a living along with other minor tasks.
Aha - an insight at last. We'll have to rewrite an axiom for you.
"Data in, Garbage out."
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#7805
Feb 7, 2013
 

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She's a low-paid programmer who seeks to supplement her income with anti science posting.

Oh the pity.

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