Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

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Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

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#35408
Apr 27, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Global warming is happening now.
2. Global warming is not inevitably a catastrophe. The world could wise up and avoid the worst.
3. I predict, however, that it will be a catastrophe.
4. Now....
It is natural that the belief in a catastrophe makes people fearful. It is also typical that a person who is afraid responds emotionally at the cost of reason.

There are many people in politics and in science whose careers, reputations, even their life's work is at risk if they cannot convince people of deadly Mann Made Catastrophic Climate Change. Thus making these people afraid.

Yes, fear tends to strip away logic and reason. The evidence is presented daily on this and hundreds of other threads.

To demonstrate this point; observe the fight or flight reactions of the people who are afraid of Earth's climate.
Rather than use logic or reason they lash out in fear with insults.

Let the experiment begin...
litesong

Everett, WA

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#35409
Apr 27, 2013
 

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all bored wrote:
Polly wants a cracker.....
I knew Pauline who liked crackers.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

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#35410
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
The Rogue made a comment that Exxon was not one of the top ten oil corporations then went on to make statements about profits. I was only showing that Exxon was in fact one of the top ten in profits. The rest of your meandering is off the subject. Go ahead and buy whatever you like. Be cognizant that we may be approaching the big bubble in carbon investments.
Your list showed nothing - it's incomplete, as it does not include all the large State-owned enterprises (other than GazProm) that do make up the top 10 oil & gas companies, and whose profits are not reported publicly (and in fact are State secrets in many cases).

Rogue Scholar is correct.

And I take it you rate ExxonMobil stock as a "sell."

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#35412
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Your list showed nothing - it's incomplete, as it does not include all the large State-owned enterprises (other than GazProm) that do make up the top 10 oil & gas companies, and whose profits are not reported publicly (and in fact are State secrets in many cases).
Rogue Scholar is correct.
And I take it you rate ExxonMobil stock as a "sell."
If they are State secrets, then how can one say they are larger?

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#35413
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
It is natural that the belief in a catastrophe makes people fearful. It is also typical that a person who is afraid responds emotionally at the cost of reason.
There are many people in politics and in science whose careers, reputations, even their life's work is at risk if they cannot convince people of deadly Mann Made Catastrophic Climate Change. Thus making these people afraid.
Yes, fear tends to strip away logic and reason. The evidence is presented daily on this and hundreds of other threads.
To demonstrate this point; observe the fight or flight reactions of the people who are afraid of Earth's climate.
Rather than use logic or reason they lash out in fear with insults.
Let the experiment begin...
The fear is that if we do anything about global warming, it will cause terrible economic repercussions and cause our lifestyles to revert to pre industrial levels. This is a real fear by many who attempt to deny the scientific evidence.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

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#35415
Apr 27, 2013
 
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
If they are State secrets, then how can one say they are larger?
PROFITS, amigo - not revenues. Their sales revenues are known. Their profits, which is the dirty word that seems to exercise you so much, are not. The Emir of Qatar, e.g., doesn't have to tell anybody that - and doesn't. There are only WAGs.

By their REVENUES, however - the only reliable measure we have, certainly ExxonMobil is not in the top 10.

Again, Rogue Scholar was and is correct on this.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#35416
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
PROFITS, amigo - not revenues. Their sales revenues are known. Their profits, which is the dirty word that seems to exercise you so much, are not. The Emir of Qatar, e.g., doesn't have to tell anybody that - and doesn't. There are only WAGs.
By their REVENUES, however - the only reliable measure we have, certainly ExxonMobil is not in the top 10.
Again, Rogue Scholar was and is correct on this.
Where do you get your information?

Here is a list of the largest corporations in the worls.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global...
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

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#35417
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
It is natural that the belief in a catastrophe makes people fearful. It is also typical that a person who is afraid responds emotionally at the cost of reason.
There are many people in politics and in science whose careers, reputations, even their life's work is at risk if they cannot convince people of deadly Mann Made Catastrophic Climate Change. Thus making these people afraid.
Yes, fear tends to strip away logic and reason. The evidence is presented daily on this and hundreds of other threads.
To demonstrate this point; observe the fight or flight reactions of the people who are afraid of Earth's climate.
Rather than use logic or reason they lash out in fear with insults.
Let the experiment begin...
I ain't afeared of the climate, I'm afeared of that there weather.

Two years ago today, the tornado that destroyed my house and killed my neighbors was pretty fearsome, an EF4. This is the 2nd anniversary of that super outbreak that killed and wrecked from Texas to Virginia. 565 killed? scores injured, towns flattened.

But we're not afraid of the weather so much as we respect it and are prepared for the next time, with a stronger house and a storm-safe room. Those we have because of my logic and my reason.

You should prepare too, in case the predictions come true.

PS. Our insults are reserved for the blind and dumb here, who cannot accept the scientific evidence. Are you itching to get on that list, too?
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

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#35418
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
The fear is that if we do anything about global warming, it will cause terrible economic repercussions and cause our lifestyles to revert to pre industrial levels. This is a real fear by many who attempt to deny the scientific evidence.
And if we don't do anything about global warming, it may cause terrible economic repercussions and cause our lifestyles to revert to pre-industrial levels.

Since: Jul 11

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#35419
Apr 27, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
And if we don't do anything about global warming, it may cause terrible economic repercussions and cause our lifestyles to revert to pre-industrial levels.
Correct and these deniers keep posting the same lies from day one. Science by far has confirmed this is happening right now, its not coming, its HERE! All we can do now is try and control how bad it gets and these ppl still don't even want to attempt that.
The cost of protecting the environment can be as profitable as it is to destroy it. All that needs to change is a mindset that gives it the value it deserves.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#35421
Apr 27, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I ain't afeared of the climate, I'm afeared of that there weather.
Two years ago today, the tornado that destroyed my house and killed my neighbors was pretty fearsome, an EF4. This is the 2nd anniversary of that super outbreak that killed and wrecked from Texas to Virginia. 565 killed? scores injured, towns flattened.
But we're not afraid of the weather so much as we respect it and are prepared for the next time, with a stronger house and a storm-safe room. Those we have because of my logic and my reason.
You should prepare too, in case the predictions come true.
..?
Sorry to hear your loss and very glad of your recovery.

I had no idea. Couple of months ago you had mentioned another storm in your area because I asked about it.

My best wishes to you all.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

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#35422
Apr 27, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry to hear your loss and very glad of your recovery.
I had no idea. Couple of months ago you had mentioned another storm in your area because I asked about it.
My best wishes to you all.
Thanks, Space!

Turned out to be a blessing, of sorts.

Bigger, better house, passive solar, super insulated, solar water heater again, white metal walls, silverish galvanized roof, 50% recycled materials. Interior storm shelter. Passive air circulation with ceiling fans to help.

Green all over.
litesong

Everett, WA

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#35423
Apr 27, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
Thanks, Space!
In SpaceBlues part of the house, too. Knew you had problems, but didn't know the details. Sometimes, our problems lead to improvements in our future. So, it seems you have worked hard to realize those improvements. Congratulations!

Some of the northern European homes are super insulated, but with excellent air circulation. Hope your passive circulation works excellently. Wouldn't what any concentrated bad air to shorten any young lives in your high orbit.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

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#35425
Apr 28, 2013
 

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litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
In SpaceBlues part of the house, too. Knew you had problems, but didn't know the details. Sometimes, our problems lead to improvements in our future.
Well, here's the details. Yall might find it interesting. I wrote this the day after the tornado to let friends and family know how it all came down.

"April 28, 2011

Yesterday, at about 6:15 PM local, my neighborhood was struck by one of the swarms of tornadoes that plagued the nation. A middle-aged couple living about a quarter mile from us was killed.

I can testify that the cliché that “it sounded like a freight train” is proven once again to be the best description. I was in the carport getting a beer out of the ice chest when I heard that sound and knew the trains that pass a mile away are never that loud. And, for years, I had noted that any tornado would come right down my driveway or from an angle to it from the west. I’d been watching the weather anyway. I immediately ran into the house, leaving the beer and the dog, and told A. to get in the closet because a tornado was coming. She didn’t move fast enough so I pulled her up and backed her into the closet. Within 20 seconds it hit and less than a minute later, it was over. But not before a pine tree crashed through our window, the house shook and bucked and shifted, and was blown off its footings. Later investigation, after all the debris was cleared, leads me to believe that the 30-foot pine tree top was thrown into the house and didn’t just fall on it. When we emerged from the closet, the bedroom was a mess, with glass all over the floor, and I was barefooted. I found A.’s bedroom slippers, shook them out, and put them on till I could find myself some shoes. She asked me “What if it comes back?” and I told her they don’t come back. We walked out of the bedroom into a fully daylit living room. Eighty percent of my roof was gone. Rain was falling on my couch and big screen. The floor sloped at different angles. I smelled gas and rushed her to get out of the house.
Outside, half my carport had collapsed from the weight of a 40 foot pine tree, which lay across the crushed cab of my Ford pick-up. The windshield of the car was smashed but the rest of it was alright but dented. We were dazed, but we were alright. A. had a few cuts on her legs and I had a small scratch on my wrist. Something had chipped one lens of my shatterproof glasses. I urged her to stay with the car and to stay away from the house. I called S. to see if they were alright and texted J. and B. I went for help or to help others.
There were about 50 trees across my 100-foot driveway. It was a job climbing over them all to the road. By this time, the VFD, MPC, and deputies were on the scene. It was still light, and I began helping drag limbs off the road as others wielded chainsaws. I heard of the deaths of the M.’s, who lived near the end of the road. I saw the older neighbor woman’s trailer and possessions scattered all over her land. I hoped that she was alright, and later found out that she was fortunately out of town.
We spent last night in the one good bedroom left, but not comfortably. The Mississippi Power boys (good, strong, tough, tenacious men who earn every dollar they make) didn’t quit until 2:30 AM. There were at least two dozen vehicles in use. I looked at stars I had never seen from my driveway after they left with their searchlights because there were no trees in the way.

Cont...
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

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#35426
Apr 28, 2013
 

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I had helped clear the road in the little light that was left, making way for families to get out and the coroner to get in, but I hadn’t gawked. Today I gawked. There is no large pine with more than 20-30 feet left of its stripped trunk, and damn few of them. My neighbor and I lost thousands of dollars worth of timber; even long fallen logs good for nothing but pulpwood because of wind stress. There were probably fifty trees across my 100 foot driveway. The great generosity and community of my neighbors finally allowed me to drive the slightly damaged car out at about 2 o’clock, and I rewarded my benefactors with half the food in my refrigerator and freezer, as they would take no pay and only accepted my offer because it will soon spoil in a house that will not be lived in again.

<><><>< ><><>

After investigation and reflection, I realized we weren't literally hit by the tornado. It passed about 50 yards in front of my house and was slightly above ground. Otherwise, I might not be here.

My willow, cypress, and sweet gum trees survived with little damage, as they are "wet" trees and bent with the wind. The pines mostly snapped or were twisted off at 20-30 feet up. These tops came down as bombs or were hurled horizontally as missiles, ranging in length from 20-40 feet. One 30' pine top came straight down onto my fence next to another pine and stuck in the ground. Another thirty-footer rammed top first into our bedroom wall, tearing several holes in it with one branch coming all the way through a chest of drawers. The house moved six feet to the northwest.

The path of the storm can plainly be seen now, about a quarter of a mile wide, across the highway to a neighbors chicken farm about a mile away, destroying five of his six 300-foot-long chicken houses.

I am only one small story from 4/27/2011. There were hundreds killed and thousands injured in the scores of tornadoes of that day. And that day was bracketed by dozens of other outbreaks that spring, though none were as bad.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

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#35427
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do you get your information?
Here is a list of the largest corporations in the worls.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global...
Lame attempt at deflection. The topic was largest OIL companies.

http://lmgtfy.com/...

Most not on Fortune's list.

Let it go, dude.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

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#35428
Apr 28, 2013
 

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

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#35429
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Lame attempt at deflection. The topic was largest OIL companies.
http://lmgtfy.com/...
Most not on Fortune's list.
Let it go, dude.
I suppose it depends on what you look at. If it is reserves, then perhaps you are correct. However, oil in the ground is not the same as revenues from development and sales. Exxon is one on the largest if not the largest. If oil in the ground is what you are basing your determination upon, then the Bakkon reserves and the oil saqnds in Canada then perhaps you would get a different picture.

http://rense.com/general37/petrol.htm

Oil in the ground is not the same thing as revenues.
litesong

Everett, WA

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#35430
Apr 28, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
I am only one small story from 4/27/2011. There were hundreds killed and thousands injured in the scores of tornadoes of that day. And that day was bracketed by dozens of other outbreaks that spring, though none were as bad.
Wow! Close up & very personal! Thanks for surviving.... & saving your wife! I don't know why homes are built in Tornado Alley without basements. Housing developments today, do away with basements.
Even a small basement with reinforced concrete walls & ceiling, just big enough to accomodate family members, is all that is needed. Better yet, a common room underground, shared by four adjoining homes.

Did you have weather radio that warns residents to take cover? Don't the radios turn on automatically in case of emergencies? There are other ideas, too.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

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#35432
Apr 28, 2013
 

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litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! Close up & very personal! Thanks for surviving.... & saving your wife! I don't know why homes are built in Tornado Alley without basements. Housing developments today, do away with basements.
Even a small basement with reinforced concrete walls & ceiling, just big enough to accomodate family members, is all that is needed. Better yet, a common room underground, shared by four adjoining homes.
Did you have weather radio that warns residents to take cover? Don't the radios turn on automatically in case of emergencies? There are other ideas, too.
The basement deal:
usually adds cost to the construction.
in some places the water table is too high for a basement. That is my problem.
in some places, the soil is not suitable for a basement.

Yes, I have a weather radio, the wind-up kind that does not need AC power. When we have bad weather though, I am always tuned into public radio, which helped save my life two years ago.

The basement thing: as I said before, if my acre wasn't 200 yards from a creek, I'd be living in an earth-shelter.

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