Better communications by police could have reduced gun-sales di...

[Fargo007]

They can shut their system down, but that doesn't stop a sale according to state law.

I wonder why they aren't following their own laws? All you anti-gun people... Just wait until it's the 4th, 1st, and 14th amendments they start attacking next...

§6111.1. Pennsylvania State Police
(2) In the event of electronic failure, scheduled computer downtime or similar event beyond the control of the Pennsyl­vania State Police, the Pennsylvania State Police shall immedi­ately notify the requesting licensee of the reason for and estimated length of the delay. If the failure or event lasts for a period exceeding 48 hours, the dealer shall not be subject to any penalty for completing a transaction absent the completion of an instantaneous records check for the remainder of the failure or similar event, but the dealer shall obtain a completed applica­tion/record of sale following the provisions of section 6111(b)(1) and (1.1)(relating to sale or transfer of firearms) as if an instan­taneous records check has not been established for any sale or transfer of a firearm for the purpose of a subsequent background check.(Chgd. by L.1997, Act 5(1), eff. 6/21/97.)

[pasp1]

It's illegal for the PSP to conduct the shutdown and prohibit sales.

RE:

§6111.1. Pennsylvania State Police
(2) In the event of electronic failure, scheduled computer downtime or similar event beyond the control of the Pennsyl­vania State Police, the Pennsylvania State Police shall immedi­ately notify the requesting licensee of the reason for and estimated length of the delay. If the failure or event lasts for a period exceeding 48 hours, the dealer shall not be subject to any penalty for completing a transaction absent the completion of an instantaneous records check for the remainder of the failure or similar event, but the dealer shall obtain a completed applica­tion/record of sale following the provisions of section 6111(b)(1) and (1.1)(relating to sale or transfer of firearms) as if an instan­taneous records check has not been established for any sale or transfer of a firearm for the purpose of a subsequent background check.(Chgd. by L.1997, Act 5(1), eff. 6/21/97.)

[DHard3006]

Drmmkr wrote:

If you try to buy a gun and are not "qualified", you are arrested...you are not set free.

Well gun hater apparently you do not have the stats on the number of arrests. Do you know why? Because there are no arrests.
Hey gun hater who does the arrest? The FFL holder is not a certified law enforcement person. They have no power to arrest people.

Drmmkr wrote:

AND these same data bases will tell you that many crimes that involve guns were committed by criminals who obtained guns from irresponsible gun owners who did not have their guns properly "stored" and thusly were stolen,

Hey gun hater I guess you blame bank robberies on the “irresponsible” bank owner and employees.
Hey gun hater I guess you blame rape on the “irresponsible” rape victim.
Hey gun hater I guess you blame car theft on the “irresponsible” car owner.
Hey gun hater I guess you blame child abuse on the “irresponsible” child.
Hey gun hater I guess you blame home invasions on the “irresponsible”home owner.
If the gun haters would start demanding that people that are to dangerous to be trusted with their rights should not be released from prison the crime problem would go away. Oh wait the gun haters do not want to stop crime. The gun haters need dangerous people on the streets to push the gun hater agenda of banning the right to bear arms.

[sofa_king_cool]

This is no way a plan to stop anyone from buying a gun.
Most stores close early on Sundays, 6 pm is most common. That is the time the state chose to begin the upgrade. So very few will miss out on Sunday sales. Many stores are closed for labor day, so again, fewer people will be affected. Tuesday and Wednesday the system will still be down, so for those 2 days, I guess you'll just have to wait. Then on Thursday the system will be up and running by noon. So in reality, most stores will really only be off-line for 2 days.
If I absolutely needed a gun that week, I'd buy it early, or just wait until noon on Thursday.
The upgrade is necessary, the time period chosen was to affect as few buyers as possible. If they really wanted to screw us, they'd do this for entire week, not including a holiday and not after most stores close on Sunday. They'd start at 8 am on Monday and keep the system down until Friday or Saturday, as to not have to pay overtime or holiday pay.
Let's all just get over it and accept the mild inconvenience.
As for blaming Rendell. Why not blame Tom "homeland security" Ridge for not updating an antiquated system while he was Gov?

[Liberty]

Too bad you all from Penn have elected a NY type pol, as all downstate NY pols are anti gun. Gov Rendell was an obvious anti 2nd amendment pol before he got elected.
Looks like his administration hasn't done a damned bit of good ( REDUCING CRIME BY THUGS AND GANGS) despite his complete anti gun rant. Criminals will always be armed, just as they deal drugs so easily( thats illegal too, ha) despite all the narc type efforts.
Our NY downstate pols love the easy won issue of gun bans that urban residents support, because they don't have to do much else than show their tough ra ra character on this single issue that has no real ending ( criminals always get guns anywhere any time, along with drugs and the money).
Maybe Rendell can workout a deal with MS13 or other local gangs, for your locals protection. Kind of like the neighborhood mafia way, and Rendell could then look good too.
Maybe Rendells henchmen and job given appointed ones can realize the money of drugs and crime can buy anything and anyone, so beating up the law abiding is only a real waste of time.
( Hey how about that submarine captured yesterday with the huge stash of drugs; maybe criminals can move guns the same way, and without the insta check crap lawful ones undergo.)
Hope Penn returns to the once liberty type govt and state it once was, pre Rendell.

[dlyn]

Ok, So lets shut down YOUR business for a few days.(Anyone want to take bets on whether it will take longer than planned ?) No need to discuss the scheduling with YOU---we will just let you know sometime before. Now dont whine about it--after all its just your families livelihood .
Is there ANY other business in America that would be treated this way ?

[Schlitzie]

If this update has been in the works since 2001, why has it been on hold till a hunting season? Does anyone want to bet on whether it takes longer?

[sofa_king_cool]

A: Whst anti-gun legislation has Renell passed?
B: Are gun shops forced to close, or can they stay open and sell ammo and accessories?
C: What hunting season starts on labor day?

[Randy]

Drmmkr wrote:

I am a proud responsible gun owner who would have no problem registering all my weapons! Because I have nothing to hide and I don't view owning my guns as a right, but a privalege..I guess I must be a gun hater
It amazes me of the mentality and power of the gun lobby that shutting down gun sales for a mere 5 days has caused such an uproar! New roads and bridges are built and buisnesses are shut down and inconvienenced for months and hardly anyone blinks an eye.
If you try to buy a gun and are not "qualified", you are arrested...you are not set free. And as for statistics..ask any law enforcement officer and they well tell you that they totally support background checks and the statistics are readily available on numerous data bases as to how many illegal gun purchases were prevented in Pa. and nationwide. AND these same data bases will tell you that many crimes that involve guns were committed by criminals who obtained guns from irresponsible gun owners who did not have their guns properly "stored" and thusly were stolen, not purchased. The NRA gun finatics should police their own ranks first!
<quoted text>

You must have the only copy of the Bill of Privileges ever written.

[sofa_king_cool]

Dangerous Allentown wrote:

Who is at greater risk being murder in Allentown, a citizen or a cop? Allentown's populations is about 106000. I'm guess estimating that Allentown employees 250 cops. I' guess estimating that Allentown had 22 murders in 2006? guess no sure? Population/murders= one murder per these # citizens 106000/22=4818 or about one murder per 5000. 5000/#cops=20 If one cop is killed in 20 years that would equal the same murder rate as being citizen of Allentown. If no cops have been killed in the line of duty in the last 20 years it is more dangerous to be a unarmed common citizen. It these numbers are anywhere correct, than the cops should relinquish their guns and all citizens should be armed with side arms! So those of your out there with the correct figures, who should be packing the fire power?

While an Allentown Police officer has never been killed in the line of duty, that doesn't mean their job isn't more dangerous than being a citizen of Allentown. Of the 16 murders last year, 2 were considered random or accidental murders. 14 of the 16 had long criminal histories. Many were drug dealers, thugs, punks, or gang members. The average law abiding citizen of Allentown is very safe, and that is a fact.
Your logic is amazingly skewed and not logical at all.
But that still has nothing to do with the thread as a whole.

[Woodpiggie]

My very first impression of this was,as you say, a "tolerance test". Anti gun leftists seem to have a bottomless bag of tricks, stunts and deceptions designed to use against the generally passive, cooperative, respectful and law abiding sport shooting and gun owing community. Note for example anti gun ordinances proposed or passed in recent years to shut down long established shooting facilities based upon bogus noise, and lead complaints. As for the data base update issue, large medical centers conduct these operations involving tens of thousands of records without missing a beat. I smell a rat here, and his initials are ER.

Examiner Reader wrote:

There is absolutely no reason for this "shutdown". If law enforcement has access to the "old" database to check criminal records, then so should firearms retailers. That the state police were unable to find a vendor that had the capability to reduce downtime to a few hours is not the fault of those free citizens who wish to exercise their fundamental RIGHT (not privilege) to own firearms. This is probably another "test" by Gov. Rendell to see how much gun owners will tolerate. This time the "shutdown" will be for a few days. Next time, perhaps the "shutdown" will be for a few weeks, then months, then years. We should have zero tolerance for these anti-gun rights shenanigans. Criminals do not purchase their firearms from retail sources. The just released FBI 15 year study of law enforcement mortality showed that criminals primarily steal firearms from homes, have straw purchasers get them (who liberals never seem to want to prosecute), or buy them on the black market, where they are only "slightly" harder to buy than drugs!
Sales at retail stores and gun shows to criminals were statistically insignificant.

[Aardvark]

Drmmkr wrote:

I am a proud responsible gun owner who would have no problem registering all my weapons! Because I have nothing to hide and I don't view owning my guns as a right, but a privalege..I guess I must be a gun hater

You should consider moving to California or New York City where registration lists were used to confiscate what had been legally owned firearms. Obviously you have not yet experienced the negative side of registration but I am sure you will eventually have the pleasure of doing so. Registration leads to confiscation. Always has, always will.

May your chains lightly upon you.

[FilthyMcNasty]

sofa_king_cool wrote:

C: What hunting season starts on labor day?

Point?

[sofa_king_cool]

FilthyMcNasty wrote:

<quoted text>
Point?

The post directly above the one you're asking about, the asks why did they wait until a hunting season? I'm only questioning what hunting season? That's the point. All of my questions were in direct correlation to preceding posts that made ridiculous claims.

[FilthyMcNasty]

sofa_king_cool wrote:

<quoted text>The post directly above the one you're asking about, the asks why did they wait until a hunting season? I'm only questioning what hunting season? That's the point. All of my questions were in direct correlation to preceding posts that made ridiculous claims.

Gotcha.

[Drmmkr]

This is atypical reponse by an obvious irresponsible gun crazed NUT!
Just because you say things and twist things, doesn't come close to making them true.
First of all everyone knows that gun dealers DO NOT have the power to make arrests, however they are required by law to call the police so an arrest can be made.
As for statistics:
Do background checks work?

Yes. Since 1994, the Brady Act has prevented more than 1.3 million criminals and other prohibited purchasers from buying guns.

This statistic was taken directly from the US Department of Justice and Treasury's website!

How many of these people were arrested? I honestly can't say and the government can not either. HOWEVER the report does go onto say that in random checks, 11 out of 25 gun dealers DID NOT report people who failed background checks AND 4 of those 11 allowed "straw purchases" even after they knew the people were not qualified. So blame your fellow gun finatics and unscrupulous dealers for many illegal guns!

DHard3006 wrote:

<quoted text>
Well gun hater apparently you do not have the stats on the number of arrests. Do you know why? Because there are no arrests.
Hey gun hater who does the arrest? The FFL holder is not a certified law enforcement person. They have no power to arrest people.
<quoted text>
Hey gun hater I guess you blame bank robberies on the “irresponsible” bank owner and employees.
Hey gun hater I guess you blame rape on the “irresponsible” rape victim.
Hey gun hater I guess you blame car theft on the “irresponsible” car owner.
Hey gun hater I guess you blame child abuse on the “irresponsible” child.
Hey gun hater I guess you blame home invasions on the “irresponsible”home owner.
If the gun haters would start demanding that people that are to dangerous to be trusted with their rights should not be released from prison the crime problem would go away. Oh wait the gun haters do not want to stop crime. The gun haters need dangerous people on the streets to push the gun hater agenda of banning the right to bear arms.

[Drmmkr]

The so-called right to bare arms has NEVER been defined by the Supreme Court. And it is no coincidence that everytime such a case has started down the road to the Supreme Court, the NRA has done everything in it's power to block the case because they are fearful that the Supreme Court may define a well regulated militia as such and not the personal right to bare arms....sounds like randy the MOron is scared too!!!!

Randy wrote:

<quoted text>
You must have the only copy of the Bill of Privileges ever written.

[Tory]

PICS was not intended to keep guns from criminals - it was intended to make us believe it keeps guns from criminals.

Criminals don't use PICS. They know where the best deals, for guns, on Labor Day weekend are had (on the street marketplace).

PICS is a system that sends thugs to one marketplace and sends all the others to another. Once again the state (We can do more) has managed to make our lives better while making the lives of thugs worse.

PICS forces thugs to shop in markets that deliberately ignore state rules and forces the law-abiding to shop in markets where all the rules are applied. We are so fortunate to have the state dictate to us where we should shop for guns. Another benefit to that is all the safety we incur, especially in gun stores where we all know we could never be acosted by a thug because thugs don't shop for guns in gun stores. I think it's wonderful all the good things the state does for us.

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for." ( Will Rogers)

.

[sofa_king_cool]

Tory wrote:

PICS was not intended to keep guns from criminals - it was intended to make us believe it keeps guns from criminals.
Criminals don't use PICS. They know where the best deals, for guns, on Labor Day weekend are had (on the street marketplace).
PICS is a system that sends thugs to one marketplace and sends all the others to another. Once again the state (We can do more) has managed to make our lives better while making the lives of thugs worse.
PICS forces thugs to shop in markets that deliberately ignore state rules and forces the law-abiding to shop in markets where all the rules are applied. We are so fortunate to have the state dictate to us where we should shop for guns. Another benefit to that is all the safety we incur, especially in gun stores where we all know we could never be acosted by a thug because thugs don't shop for guns in gun stores. I think it's wonderful all the good things the state does for us.
"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for." ( Will Rogers)
.

If it's so easy to buy a gun on the streets, then go ahead. While PICS is down, if you need a gun, go out and buy one from a thug gun runner.
Where do you think thugs who sell guns on the street get their guns in the first place? GUN STORES! THAT'S CORRECT!

[Bushwacker]

American wrote:

THERE GOING TO TAKE MY GUNS!!! WAHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

They'll take my guns from my cold dead hands.