Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 149922 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“There's more than one religion”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#85298 Aug 8, 2012
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>I get answers to my Prayers almost all the time...
You could too, but yer praying to the WRONG guy!
Go figure!
Of course you do! Especially when you consider silence an answer.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#85299 Aug 8, 2012
Known fact wrote:
The Primitive Atmosphere
In 1953 Stanley Miller passed an electric spark through an “atmosphere” of hydrogen, methane, ammonia and water vapor. This produced some of the many amino acids that exist and that are the building blocks of proteins. However, he got just 4 of the 20 amino acids needed for life to exist. More than 30 years later, scientists were still unable experimentally to produce all the 20 necessary amino acids under conditions that could be considered plausible.
Miller assumed that earth’s primitive atmosphere was similar to the one in his experimental flask. Why? Because, as he and a co-worker later said:“The synthesis of compounds of biological interest takes place only under reducing [no free oxygen in the atmosphere] conditions.” Yet other evolutionists theorize that oxygen was present. The dilemma this creates for evolution is expressed by Hitching:“With oxygen in the air, the first amino acid would never have got started; without oxygen, it would have been wiped out by cosmic rays.”
The fact is, any attempt to establish the nature of earth’s primitive atmosphere can only be based on guesswork or assumption. No one knows for sure what it was like.
Hitching was that non-scientist Creationist, right. Sounds familiar.

But either way what is your point? Sewing doubt is not the same as proving something. Creationists are good at sewing doubt among people who might not know a lot about the topic. But they SUCK at presenting anything resembling a rational argument.

If Creationists want to contribute to the understanding of nature they need to study it first.
Known fact

Cape Canaveral, FL

#85300 Aug 8, 2012
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitching was that non-scientist Creationist, right. Sounds familiar.
But either way what is your point? Sewing doubt is not the same as proving something. Creationists are good at sewing doubt among people who might not know a lot about the topic. But they SUCK at presenting anything resembling a rational argument.
If Creationists want to contribute to the understanding of nature they need to study it first.
"Question, Explore and Discover: That is a great idea get busy!
Known fact

Cape Canaveral, FL

#85301 Aug 8, 2012
Would an “Organic Soup” Form?
How likely is it that the amino acids thought to have formed in the atmosphere would drift down and form an “organic soup” in the oceans? Not likely at all. The same energy that would split the simple compounds in the atmosphere would even more quickly decompose any complex amino acids that formed. Interestingly, in his experiment of passing an electric spark through an “atmosphere,” Miller saved the four amino acids he got only because he removed them from the area of the spark. Had he left them there, the spark would have decomposed them.
However, if it is assumed that amino acids somehow reached the oceans and were protected from the destructive ultraviolet radiation in the atmosphere, what then? Hitching explained:“Beneath the surface of the water there would not be enough energy to activate further chemical reactions; water in any case inhibits the growth of more complex molecules.”
So once amino acids are in the water, they must get out of it if they are to form larger molecules and evolve toward becoming proteins useful for the formation of life. But once they get out of the water, they are in the destructive ultraviolet light again!“In other words,” Hitching says,“the theoretical chances of getting through even this first and relatively easy stage [getting amino acids] in the evolution of life are forbidding.”
Although it commonly is asserted that life spontaneously arose in the oceans, bodies of water simply are not conducive to the necessary chemistry. Chemist Richard Dickerson explains:“It is therefore hard to see how polymerization [linking together smaller molecules to form bigger ones] could have proceeded in the aqueous environment of the primitive ocean, since the presence of water favors depolymerization [breaking up big molecules into simpler ones] rather than polymerization.” Biochemist George Wald agrees with this view, stating:“Spontaneous dissolution is much more probable, and hence proceeds much more rapidly, than spontaneous synthesis.” This means there would be no accumulation of organic soup! Wald believes this to be “the most stubborn problem that confronts us [evolutionists].”
There is, however, another stubborn problem that confronts evolutionary theory. Remember, there are over 100 amino acids, but only 20 are needed for life’s proteins. Moreover, they come in two shapes: Some of the molecules are “right-handed” and others are “left-handed.” Should they be formed at random, as in a theoretical organic soup, it is most likely that half would be right-handed and half left-handed. And there is no known reason why either shape should be preferred in living things. Yet, of the 20 amino acids used in producing life’s proteins, all are left-handed!
How is it that, at random, only the specifically required kinds would be united in the soup? Physicist J. D. Bernal acknowledges:“It must be admitted that the explanation . . . still remains one of the most difficult parts of the structural aspects of life to explain.” He concluded:“We may never be able to explain it.”

YET EVOLUTION IS PRESENTED AS SCIENTIFIC FACT TO SCHOOL CHILDREN,(most vulnerable)!
wow

Glasgow, KY

#85302 Aug 8, 2012
concerned wrote:
The danger in teaching the Bible is that this book has the power to create faith even in an atheist. If it is allowed to be taught there is a strong possibility someone could be converted to Jesus Christ. Under the current world views is it possible to allow such a powerful tool for good to be taught in public schools and that before the young minds of the future?
I cannot believe with all the hrrible things going on in our society that your main concern is that they not teach the bible in school. Those young minds could benifit tremendously from knowing Jesus Christ. That's exaclty what's wrong with our society. People wine more over the good and go along with all the pathetic immoral behavior. There are a lot of good christian people left in this world, learn something from them.

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#85303 Aug 8, 2012
Drunk_Monk wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why did God have have Isaiah preach naked for 3 years?
Isaiah 20:
2 At the same time spake the Lord by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
3 And the Lord said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
5 And they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation, and of Egypt their glory.
6 And the inhabitant of this isle shall say in that day, Behold, such is our expectation, whither we flee for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria: and how shall we escape?
To humiliate someone. Yet God wants to see everyone naked just as Adam and Eve in the beginning of the book. A world wide nudist camp.

Why does God want to see everyone naked?

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#85304 Aug 8, 2012
I find it curious that YAA and other religious people would vote for someone they say the bible predicted an anti-christ would come and claim to be a God.

According to Mitt Romney's Mormon beliefs, Lucifer and Jesus in the beginning apparently were brothers with competing plans. The Mormon beliefs of Mitt Romney claims that God the Father sided with Jesus, who performed well and turned into a god, while Lucifer rebelled against them and turned into Satan.

And according to the beliefs that Mitt Romney has taught as a Mormon High Priest, Mormons who adhere to the Mormon beliefs will one day also become gods like Jesus (evidence); Mitt Romney's good deeds in this life are intended to turn him into God someday.

http://godvoter.org/Mitt-Romney-beliefs.html

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#85305 Aug 8, 2012
wow wrote:
<quoted text> I cannot believe with all the hrrible things going on in our society that your main concern is that they not teach the bible in school. Those young minds could benifit tremendously from knowing Jesus Christ. That's exaclty what's wrong with our society. People wine more over the good and go along with all the pathetic immoral behavior. There are a lot of good christian people left in this world, learn something from them.
First on your last sentence; There are a lot of them without ever having to teach the bible in a public school. Are the churches no longer capable of teaching the bible? There are reports of church membership declining, and perhaps supporters of this see it as a way of reaching out for new members.

I have pointed out previously that the 1st amendment prevents such a program in public schools but not to private ones, so I will not rehash that argument. I do not feel that public schools have the budget to allow for this, without having to bump other courses. Math, science, language arts, physical education, music, art, and trade skills are essential to students' development of their potential. These all cost tax payers who support the public schools, churches teach the bible for free. They have Sunday School, Vacation Bible School, and worship on the days they can have them. They also have groups and fellowship meetings. This costs the tax payers nothing. So why should we deprive our schools of important life skill teaching courses, for what is already provided for by an appropiate and qualified organization.

Back to decline in membership, I would want to know what kind of message churches are presenting. The hellfire and brimstone approach no longer works; with everything going on the world today and how much information is instantly available, people just tune it out. I feel the message should be about eternal love because people react better and tend be more open. There isn't enough mention out there about unconditional love. One should worship in celebration and love, not serve in fear.

As a Christian, I accept and respect other's beliefs. If I am asked or the subject arises, I speak of a God that loves diversity. That there is no one way that works for everyone, just the person. It should make you a better person, for even aethesists should practice civic virtue(how a society should treat one another). If someone doesn't want to believe, it's ok God still loves them and they have that right. When asked how could God allow horrible things to happen, I respond that when Christ died on the cross we were given the freewill to make this world good or bad. God would no longer directly control us, or reign fire down. God is also not some magical wish granting genie, though He can grant us strength when we really need it. Another question is; if God knows all that is going to happen what is the point of life and is He punishing me? I feel that God know all the infinite possibilities of any choice that could possibly be made, yet He wants us to have those choices and loves to watch things unfold through our life.

When it comes to questions of science vs religion, the short version is the heavens don't lie and God would not create a deceptive universe. If the heavens say they are billions of years old then they are, for God's Word is in nature.

Sorry to make such a long post, but as I stated the 1st amendment arguement didn't seem to be enough. Peace, and kindness to each other.
Wasting Time

Cambridge, MA

#85306 Aug 8, 2012
yeah!
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85307 Aug 8, 2012
Spaceship earth wrote:
I find it curious that YAA and other religious people would vote for someone they say the bible predicted an anti-christ would come and claim to be a God.
According to Mitt Romney's Mormon beliefs, Lucifer and Jesus in the beginning apparently were brothers with competing plans. The Mormon beliefs of Mitt Romney claims that God the Father sided with Jesus, who performed well and turned into a god, while Lucifer rebelled against them and turned into Satan.
And according to the beliefs that Mitt Romney has taught as a Mormon High Priest, Mormons who adhere to the Mormon beliefs will one day also become gods like Jesus (evidence); Mitt Romney's good deeds in this life are intended to turn him into God someday.
http://godvoter.org/Mitt-Romney-beliefs.html
his good deeds in this life are intended to do that? is it a matter of good on balance, or just a few good ones? and if God is a dog, would she call him good? I am not sure we have anything to worry about, if sufficient good deeds are required, especially if bad ones count against him - and what about intended bad deeds? oh, maybe that is what would make him the anti-Christ....taking from the rich and giving to the poor ... or no, isn't the new fundie version of God supposed to be pro-success and to blame the poor for their own supposed "failures"? it is so difficult to mix up religion and politics and economics.
couldn't we just continue to have a basketball fanatic as President?
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85308 Aug 8, 2012
or is the anti-Christ supposed to be the one who takes from the rich and gives to the poor, or the one who takes from the poor and gives to the rich? that one has been revised a bit too, I think. tax the naked and clothe the rich in lavish clothes, since it is the fault of the naked that they are ill-clothed, and giving more to the rich will help the rich invest more money in clothing making factories - or would that be in clothing making piece work in China and Honduras? another real problem there.

I guess I would be more comfortable with a mildly liberation theology, peace and justice type President such as we thought we voted for in 2008, and he would like to be, if the world and the senate rules and Mitch McConnell would permit.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85309 Aug 8, 2012
bravo to you for a thoughtful and kind-hearted comment. you are the sort of christian I defend when some of the extreme and hasty atheists over-generalize in criticizing Christians. we do not get enough of your type on topix, but one like you is a wonderful example of why even the most rational and devoted freethinker should not repudiate people who are Christians, simply because they call themselves Christian. It is the beliefs and the consequences of those beliefs which matter. you seem to intend to do good. please continue to visit us here.
Hocke wrote:
<quoted text>
First on your last sentence; There are a lot of them without ever having to teach the bible in a public school. Are the churches no longer capable of teaching the bible? There are reports of church membership declining, and perhaps supporters of this see it as a way of reaching out for new members.
I have pointed out previously that the 1st amendment prevents such a program in public schools but not to private ones, so I will not rehash that argument. I do not feel that public schools have the budget to allow for this, without having to bump other courses. Math, science, language arts, physical education, music, art, and trade skills are essential to students' development of their potential. These all cost tax payers who support the public schools, churches teach the bible for free. They have Sunday School, Vacation Bible School, and worship on the days they can have them. They also have groups and fellowship meetings. This costs the tax payers nothing. So why should we deprive our schools of important life skill teaching courses, for what is already provided for by an appropiate and qualified organization.
Back to decline in membership, I would want to know what kind of message churches are presenting. The hellfire and brimstone approach no longer works; with everything going on the world today and how much information is instantly available, people just tune it out. I feel the message should be about eternal love because people react better and tend be more open. There isn't enough mention out there about unconditional love. One should worship in celebration and love, not serve in fear.
As a Christian, I accept and respect other's beliefs. If I am asked or the subject arises, I speak of a God that loves diversity. That there is no one way that works for everyone, just the person. It should make you a better person, for even aethesists should practice civic virtue(how a society should treat one another). If someone doesn't want to believe, it's ok God still loves them and they have that right. When asked how could God allow horrible things to happen, I respond that when Christ died on the cross we were given the freewill to make this world good or bad. God would no longer directly control us, or reign fire down. God is also not some magical wish granting genie, though He can grant us strength when we really need it. Another question is; if God knows all that is going to happen what is the point of life and is He punishing me? I feel that God know all the infinite possibilities of any choice that could possibly be made, yet He wants us to have those choices and loves to watch things unfold through our life.
When it comes to questions of science vs religion, the short version is the heavens don't lie and God would not create a deceptive universe. If the heavens say they are billions of years old then they are, for God's Word is in nature.
Sorry to make such a long post, but as I stated the 1st amendment arguement didn't seem to be enough. Peace, and kindness to each other.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#85310 Aug 8, 2012
wow wrote:
<quoted text> I cannot believe with all the hrrible things going on in our society that your main concern is that they not teach the bible in school. Those young minds could benifit tremendously from knowing Jesus Christ. That's exaclty what's wrong with our society. People wine more over the good and go along with all the pathetic immoral behavior. There are a lot of good christian people left in this world, learn something from them.
one thing that can be learned from bad christian people, is that they believe that they can do bad things, and then cry lord lord I believe and get forgiven for the harm they have done to others. I defend good people who are Christians. but there are many kinds of folks who call themselves Christians. The Christian religion itself, in various of its textts, gives support to the ones I think want to get off easy, by just believing in nonsense and not having to do good, or make up for the harm they do.

I still like and defend the good persons who are Christians, but the less they believe in the superstition, the wiser they are.

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#85311 Aug 8, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> his good deeds in this life are intended to do that? is it a matter of good on balance, or just a few good ones? and if God is a dog, would she call him good? I am not sure we have anything to worry about, if sufficient good deeds are required, especially if bad ones count against him - and what about intended bad deeds? oh, maybe that is what would make him the anti-Christ....taking from the rich and giving to the poor ... or no, isn't the new fundie version of God supposed to be pro-success and to blame the poor for their own supposed "failures"? it is so difficult to mix up religion and politics and economics.
couldn't we just continue to have a basketball fanatic as President?
No, according to most christian theology good deeds are not good enough. Only having the true religion and practicing true religion is the only way.

Yes, it would be nice just to let politics and religion seperate but most christians are theocratic even in a secular society just like muslims are here also and by their faith they must not sway from religious teachings or face eternity in hell-fire.

Foxnews will make sure eveyone gets the message.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#85312 Aug 8, 2012
It is the lunatics and bad examples of any group that gets the most attention, now and all through history. It has never been a true representation of the group. I do hope that one day more good Christians will speak up, telling the good Word as we like to say. Ignorance has never served anyone any good. Superstition is a form of ignorance, but not to be confused with beliefs. As a child I was told that thunder was the angels bowling and lighting was a strike, harmless superstition much like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Harmful superstition is just that, such as believing witches are harming the town(cows drying up, crop failures, ect...) and that burning the witch would stop the percieved destruction. Many more examples exist, all of which were carried out in the name of Righteousness and sadistic inhumanity.

Which brings me to my own definition of Sin, harm that is done. There is a great misunderstanding of harm upon others or society at large. I have read this saying quite often "hate the sin not the sinner" but no where does it exist in the Bible. The further problem I see is the word "hate" used as a mantra, and this is often what is wrong with diatribes against sin and sinners. The speaker/writer may not realize it, but there is hate hidden within their expression. There is judgement upon others and if they don't know it is there, they use Righteousness as a blanket for justification. They know not the harm they do, for if they did then they are willing sinners.

I went to church from childhood, but that isn't why I am a Christian. It isn't enough to follow "because that's what the Bible says". My own spiritual experience, education, and observations have led me to a deeper understanding and dedication to my faith. I have learned about other faiths, not necessarily to change mine but to gain a greater insight of humanity. What I have found is that religions I have researched share a basic common message; be good to others, and do no harm.[On a side note, most satanists have stated that it is the only religion that accepts everyone and that is why they follow it.]
It is where I began to discover my own personal insight, God loves diversity. An aetheist once asked, "If Christianity is the one true religion, then why didn't Jesus appear to all civilizations all over the world and why didn't God perform miracles to all of humanity?" My response went like this, "If God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient then he knows His children well. Perhaps knowing the differences we tend to have in each culture, He sent emissaries to all and thus you have different religions. Meaning there is no one right way for all, just for the person. It is our own arrogance that creates all the conflict over religion. Perhaps, the true message is to love one another and embrace all the God-given wonderful individuality of humanity. Granted this isn't a philosophy shared by other Christians, but it is one of respect of others. I read the Bible often, I console those I know that need it, and I try to give a message of hope when it's called for. I also know to not be so foolish to think there aren't evil people in the world beyond redemption. Some people you can't help, because it is also how you are treated that is important.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#85313 Aug 8, 2012
Spaceship earth wrote:
<quoted text>
No, according to most christian theology good deeds are not good enough. Only having the true religion and practicing true religion is the only way.
Yes, it would be nice just to let politics and religion seperate but most christians are theocratic even in a secular society just like muslims are here also and by their faith they must not sway from religious teachings or face eternity in hell-fire.
Foxnews will make sure eveyone gets the message.
And look how much harm that is done. I have studied some about Islam(much like other groups bad apples get the attention) and there is a message of tolerance. Similar to bible verses used to justify inhumane actions, the Quran contains them as well. However, the greater message of tolerance and love is the one that should be followed for hate is harm therefore sin. Prior to the modern era, areas under Muslim control tolerated and allowed others to practice their own beliefs this even included Christian churches. The following verses reflect the basis of this tolerance.
There is no compulsion in religion…”(Qur’an, 2:256)
“Had your Lord wanted, all the people on earth would have believed. So will you force people to believe?”(Qur’an, 10:99)
“So warn them: your only task is to warn, you’re not supposed to force them.”(Qur’an, 88:21-22)
“He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith and driven you out of your homes, God loves the just.”(Qur’an, 60:8)

Perhaps Christianity has matured some, but The Inquisition and The Crusade are prime examples of inhumanity justified by Righteousness. Those things do not represent the true message of Christ, love one another. The fanatics who commit atrocities in the name of Islam are justifying themselves in the same way, but it is not the true message either.

Islam encourages reason and logic over ignorance and superstition. Many great scientific discoveries prior to our modern era, were made by Muslims. Alcohol, algebra(including the concept of the number zero), and navigation equipment are just a few of the advances they shared with the world. Even a concept and techniques of personal hygene(showering, bathing, brushing ones teeth) as a method to improve health, were developed by Muslims.

It is unfair to base an opinion, when you do not know what the truth of something is. The same applys to Muslims as it does to Christian, the good ones are following the true message of their faith.

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#85314 Aug 8, 2012
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>But then God shows up in your life, and you'll never believe the evilutional lies again!
I truly hope that happens to each n everyone in the world, but
reading the Book tells me this won't be!
No god showed up in your life, and jaysus did not save you your brain is fried from the meth

Since: Feb 12

El Dorado Hills, CA

#85315 Aug 8, 2012
Hocke wrote:
<quoted text>
And look how much harm that is done. I have studied some about Islam(much like other groups bad apples get the attention) and there is a message of tolerance. Similar to bible verses used to justify inhumane actions, the Quran contains them as well. However, the greater message of tolerance and love is the one that should be followed for hate is harm therefore sin. Prior to the modern era, areas under Muslim control tolerated and allowed others to practice their own beliefs this even included Christian churches. The following verses reflect the basis of this tolerance.
There is no compulsion in religion…”(Qur’an, 2:256)
“Had your Lord wanted, all the people on earth would have believed. So will you force people to believe?”(Qur’an, 10:99)
“So warn them: your only task is to warn, you’re not supposed to force them.”(Qur’an, 88:21-22)
“He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith and driven you out of your homes, God loves the just.”(Qur’an, 60:8)
Perhaps Christianity has matured some, but The Inquisition and The Crusade are prime examples of inhumanity justified by Righteousness. Those things do not represent the true message of Christ, love one another. The fanatics who commit atrocities in the name of Islam are justifying themselves in the same way, but it is not the true message either.
Islam encourages reason and logic over ignorance and superstition. Many great scientific discoveries prior to our modern era, were made by Muslims. Alcohol, algebra(including the concept of the number zero), and navigation equipment are just a few of the advances they shared with the world. Even a concept and techniques of personal hygene(showering, bathing, brushing ones teeth) as a method to improve health, were developed by Muslims.
It is unfair to base an opinion, when you do not know what the truth of something is. The same applys to Muslims as it does to Christian, the good ones are following the true message of their faith.
If good ones are following their faith, how does that reconcile with this bible verse. Seems like no one person is good.

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. Mark 10:18

You're right if is unfair, but what is truth? Do you have the truth? Why would anyone believe your truth? Is any religion truth?
How would you discover you have the truth?

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#85316 Aug 8, 2012
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>Whatever you want to believe...
He saved me before the Meth too...
But hold that thought!
Your brain is so fried from the meth that you think god talks to you, there is medicine that will save you

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#85317 Aug 8, 2012
defender wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey thanks I had forgotten about old Tiktaalik ... Yet another missing link proven sham!!... Yes bones are found in Tiktaalik's fins ... But what our honest buddies don't tell you is that these bones were NOT attached to the skeleton thus not allowing these so called new legs to support the Tiktaalik on land... And the hits just keep coming!! Nice try though..
Science is not claiming its legs supported it on land. The legs were for walking around on the bottom of the lake or river. But it shows legs can be grown by fish and were at that time. They could evolve to land bearing leg strength.

The theory holds fish like this just came to the edge of the shore to escape predators. That is a major reason animals change(to escape predators). As time rolled on, the fish naturally selected those best at escaping and thus survived to procreate. Those who had the ability to escape were the best at getting onto land. Thus the ones who had good leg strength wins the race of evolution.

Alligators are not so far different than this. Their bodies locomotion is in the same side to side as fish.

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