Questions for Kentuckians

“Use Your Prepper Sense”

Since: Sep 09

In Your Head

#22 Jun 1, 2012
rawtruth wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever read Pat Garrett's book? I have. Not very well written but it does have a lot of insight to it.
But I dont remember ever reading anything that claimed Billy and Pat Garrett were good friends. Where did you get that info? I would like to check it out.
They were good buddies Raw. In fact, Pat Garrett use to ride with Billy the Kid when there was a war in Lincoln County, New Mexico. Billy the Kid started something called "The Lincoln County Regulators."

I was looking at this site that is an offical site, and a museum at Fort Sumner, NM that has all of the Billy the Kid's history. They have guns, and all kinds of historical documented things from Billy the Kid including a gun, a lock of his hair and all kinds of stuff.

It's about a 4-5 hour drive from my house, and I am thinking about taking a mini-vacation down to Fort Sumner pretty soon and see this museum. It'd be a short, but fun trip.

I think it is called "The Billy the Kid Museum." It's in Fort Sumner, NM.

Pat Garrett was from Alabama originally, then he went to Louisiana, and then to Texas. He was a cow hand. I think they ended up in Colorado too for a spell...Then to New Mexico.

Pat Garrett was killed close to a place called Las Cruces, New Mexico. There are tours what lead to the exact spot where Garrett was killed. Thye made a shrine of sorts.

Be sure to get the movie called "Young Guns II," and I think you'd like it alot. It's been out a while, so I bet you could get it pretty cheap.

Great action, and a good story.

So you ain't voting for Obama eh? ha
For Real

Harlan, KY

#23 Jun 1, 2012
Jimmy Rants wrote:
Are any of you related to the McCoy family (from Kentucky) that was involved in the Hatfield's (from West Virgina)/McCoy feud?
Can any of you share any stories that have anything to do with your McCoy/Hatfield ancestry?
Any viewpoint you want to share about this long lived, and famous feud?
My wife's great, great grandfather was devil ance!
For Real

Harlan, KY

#24 Jun 1, 2012
I thought it was interesting that the McCoys the Christian family wouldn't forgive. The heathens Hatfields tried to put it to rest. In the end Devil got saved and baptized and McCoy became a drunkard and died in misery!

“Use Your Prepper Sense”

Since: Sep 09

In Your Head

#25 Jun 1, 2012
For Real wrote:
I thought it was interesting that the McCoys the Christian family wouldn't forgive. The heathens Hatfields tried to put it to rest. In the end Devil got saved and baptized and McCoy became a drunkard and died in misery!
I did notice that the head McCoy, as well as his wife questioned God.

They lost their faith big time...but can you blame them after losing almost all of their children?

He cracked at the end.
vet

Hyden, KY

#26 Jun 2, 2012
Not to be a smart ass, but wouldn't it make more sense to ask this question in Pikeville or WV? After all, thats where they are from.
DolphRussian

Harlan, KY

#27 Jun 2, 2012
rawtruth wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever read Pat Garrett's book? I have. Not very well written but it does have a lot of insight to it.
But I dont remember ever reading anything that claimed Billy and Pat Garrett were good friends. Where did you get that info? I would like to check it out.
Jimmy has watched too many Emilio Estevez movies.

This is the most comprehensive and factual history on the market. It's factual to the point of almost being boring.

http://www.amazon.com/To-Hell-Fast-Horse-eboo...

There is zero historical evidence to support Pat Garrett and William Henry McCarty, Jr.(aka Billy the Kid) ever being friends. Many make this assumption just because they lived in the same area as one another.

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#28 Jun 2, 2012
For Real wrote:
I thought it was interesting that the McCoys the Christian family wouldn't forgive. The heathens Hatfields tried to put it to rest. In the end Devil got saved and baptized and McCoy became a drunkard and died in misery!
Everything in the T.V series was NOT factual. I have never read anything historically accurate that claimed that Devil Anse was baptized or that the McCoys stopped believing in God. I think that was added by Hollywood.

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#29 Jun 2, 2012
Jimmy Rants wrote:
<quoted text>
They were good buddies Raw. In fact, Pat Garrett use to ride with Billy the Kid when there was a war in Lincoln County, New Mexico. Billy the Kid started something called "The Lincoln County Regulators."
I was looking at this site that is an offical site, and a museum at Fort Sumner, NM that has all of the Billy the Kid's history. They have guns, and all kinds of historical documented things from Billy the Kid including a gun, a lock of his hair and all kinds of stuff.
It's about a 4-5 hour drive from my house, and I am thinking about taking a mini-vacation down to Fort Sumner pretty soon and see this museum. It'd be a short, but fun trip.
I think it is called "The Billy the Kid Museum." It's in Fort Sumner, NM.
Pat Garrett was from Alabama originally, then he went to Louisiana, and then to Texas. He was a cow hand. I think they ended up in Colorado too for a spell...Then to New Mexico.
Pat Garrett was killed close to a place called Las Cruces, New Mexico. There are tours what lead to the exact spot where Garrett was killed. Thye made a shrine of sorts.
Be sure to get the movie called "Young Guns II," and I think you'd like it alot. It's been out a while, so I bet you could get it pretty cheap.
Great action, and a good story.
So you ain't voting for Obama eh? ha
I know all of that. He was killed by Jesse Wayne Brazel after an argument over Goats grazing on Garrett's land.

Theodore Roosevelt also appointed Garrett as the customs collector in El Paso after inviting him to the White House to give him a first hand account of the details of the Billy the Kid killing.

But Jim I challenge you to find ANY document of historical credence that proves Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid were friends. They were acquaintances but that is as far as their friendship ever progressed. Pat Garrett NEVER road with billy the Kid!

Even the number of Billy the Kids victims is, at the very least questionable. Fictional history claims that Billy the Kid killed 21 men. But most experts can only find proof of about 5-6 killings.

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#30 Jun 2, 2012
DolphRussian wrote:
<quoted text>
Jimmy has watched too many Emilio Estevez movies.
This is the most comprehensive and factual history on the market. It's factual to the point of almost being boring.
http://www.amazon.com/To-Hell-Fast-Horse-eboo...
There is zero historical evidence to support Pat Garrett and William Henry McCarty, Jr.(aka Billy the Kid) ever being friends. Many make this assumption just because they lived in the same area as one another.
As I have said. I have read many articles about Billy the Kid. And EVERYHING I have ever read by any Billy the Kid expert agrees, that Billy the Kid and Pat Garrett was NEVER close friends. And they NEVER road together. Pat Garrett was a bartender at a saloon frequented by Billy the Kid that is the only way they even knew each other.

I think you're correct. Too many people have trouble separating fact from fiction due mainly to Hollywood.
For Real

Harlan, KY

#31 Jun 2, 2012
rawtruth wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything in the T.V series was NOT factual. I have never read anything historically accurate that claimed that Devil Anse was baptized or that the McCoys stopped believing in God. I think that was added by Hollywood.
Your not an authority either. I hope he was!

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#32 Jun 2, 2012
For Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Your not an authority either. I hope he was!
I never said I was an authority on anything. But if anyone claims that Billy the Kid and Pat Garrett was close friends then I would wager that I know more about the subject than they do. because NO WHERE, in any historically accurate document can any such claims be substantiated.

Now who do you mean when you say "I hope he was?"

Who in the heck are you talking about?

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#33 Jun 2, 2012
For Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Your not an authority either. I hope he was!
I'm not an authority on the Hatfield/McCoy feud either. But I just asked if anyone can PROVE historically that Devil Anse was baptised or that the McCoys gave up on their belief in God. Show me anything factual and i'l beleive it. Thats all I am saying.

And when I spoke of Devil Anse only wanting to fight when things were in his favor. I was merely giving an opinion. But I think his actions goes a long way in proving my opinions of him accurate. The McCoys were a single poor family fighting against a wealthy man with large family and a lot of hired hands at his disposal. If you will search the records you will see that every time Devil Anse attacked the Mccoys he had a LARGE number of hired hands with him. A mob so to speak. Heck he even employed some of the McCoys. But when Frank Phillips and the Ky posse begin to kill Hatfields and the tables turned against him, his will to fight dwindled. And he began calling for peace. I think that says a whole lot about the man himself dont you?

At the "Battle of Grapevine" 9 Hatfield's were captured and several killed or wounded. After that Devil Anse lost his eagerness to fight. Check it out. These facts are HISTORICALLY ACCURATE AND RECORDED. Not some Hollywood interpretation.

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#34 Jun 2, 2012
For Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Your not an authority either. I hope he was!
Here are a few FACTS that make me think that perhaps ole Devil Anse was a little on the cowardice side.

He and several of his family members DID desert from the Confederate army.

The first McCoy killed was a returning union army soldier Asa McCoy who had a broken leg. He was killed (Not as the T.V series depicts) not by Jim Vance alone. But by a MOB called the "Logan Wildcats" They were a bunch of confederate sympathizers organized by Devil Anse Hatfield.

When Devil Anse rescued his son (Johnse Hatfield)from the three McCoy boys.(And they were not held up in a cabin preparing to murder him as the series showed. The McCoys had legitimate warrants from the state of Ky on Johnse for bootlegging.) Devil Anse once again had a very large MOB with him.

When he took the three McCoy boys out of the hands of the HATFIELD constables who were transporting them to Ky to stand trial for the murder of Devil Anses brother (Ellison Hatfield) once again he had a LARGE MOB with him.

When he ordered the attack on the McCoys home (And again here the T.V series is not accurate. The attack came during the night while the McCoys were sleeping) He sent a LARGE Mob under the direction of Jim Vance. And McCoys remaining son and his daughter were both murdered. And their murder was not the result of some simpleton mistakenly shooting his daughter. The murders were intentional. And his wife was not hit ONCE. She was beaten by the MOB so severely that she nearly died. Beating women and murdering defenseless girls... hhhmmm

Thats when people began to get fed up with watching Randall McCoy try to stand up to a wealthy politically connected Devil Anse Hatfield and all his HIRED hands. So a posse was organized by Frank Phillips who invaded West Virginia and began to bring their Butts back to Ky to stand trial for the murder of the McCoy children and the attack on his wife. Frank Phillips killed Jim Vance and at the battle of Grapevine, Frank Phillips and his posse they kicked the crap outta the Hatfield's and their MOB! After that Devil Anse knew he was next and he began to call for peace. Sounds pretty cowardly to me.

If he was so willing to fight why didn't he try to rescue the 9 Hatfield's that were being held in Ky? And By the way. They did not turn themselves in. Frank Phillips went into West Virginia and brought their booty's back.

The McCoys were going up against an equally large family with wealth power and political connections. Along with Their Hired hands and the Logan Wildcats! But when the playing field was leveled a bit. Ole Devil Asne began to call for peace!...hhhmmmm

DolphRussian

Harlan, KY

#35 Jun 2, 2012
rawtruth wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are a few FACTS
Don't even bother arguing with people who get their history from the boob tube.

The miniseries was good, but it was 70% fiction. It was written to make KY look bad when both sides were morons.
ChurchCharles

Atlanta, GA

#36 Jun 3, 2012
For Real wrote:
<quoted text>
My wife's great, great grandfather was devil ance!
I have been doing Geneology on my ky west virginia ancesters over 10 years and am sure if we didnt intermarry we at least touched shoulders . I have a Grandfather John Henry Church who was born in approx 1886-89 who I was told was raised by Devil Ance ????? he isssss my elucive relative , who was he really ???? ky/wv has a lot of strongwilled men and stubborn and proud even if they both were wrong . God bless the mother and wives and children of these unions

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#37 Jun 4, 2012
DolphRussian wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't even bother arguing with people who get their history from the boob tube.
The miniseries was good, but it was 70% fiction. It was written to make KY look bad when both sides were morons.
It does amaze me how many people will take what they see in a T.V show as FACTS!
Skrewdriver

Versailles, KY

#38 Jun 4, 2012
rawtruth wrote:
<quoted text>
It does amaze me how many people will take what they see in a T.V show as FACTS!
I bet it really doesn't amaze you that much Raw.

Even the "History" Channel is flawed these days. There's still nothing quite like cracking open a book.

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#39 Jun 4, 2012
Skrewdriver wrote:
<quoted text>
I bet it really doesn't amaze you that much Raw.
Even the "History" Channel is flawed these days. There's still nothing quite like cracking open a book.
I know what you're saying.

I was a little surprised that a person like Jim who tries so hard to project his supposed intellect, would rely on a T.V show for his historical information. He continually referenced "Young Guns II" Surely he dont think that "Young Guns" movies was any kind of an accurate portrayal of historical facts. If he does then my opinions of him just tumbled worse than the stock market did this past Monday.

Whadda you think?

“"South of Southern”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#40 Jun 4, 2012
Skrewdriver wrote:
<quoted text>
I bet it really doesn't amaze you that much Raw.
Even the "History" Channel is flawed these days. There's still nothing quite like cracking open a book.
Speaking of cracking open a book. I used to read all the time. Don't have much time for it anymore though. I loved the older classic authors anyway.

There aren't that many modern era writers that I enjoy too much except maybe for Stephen King.
Skrewdriver

Versailles, KY

#41 Jun 4, 2012
rawtruth wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of cracking open a book. I used to read all the time. Don't have much time for it anymore though. I loved the older classic authors anyway.
There aren't that many modern era writers that I enjoy too much except maybe for Stephen King.
As I find myself getting older I'm starting to lean towards non-fiction. I'm actually reading the books I would have cringed at a few years ago. I do love reading stuff on the internet, but find some of the information there unreliable at times. It's been a few years since I've read anything from Stephen King. I really need to pick him back up again.

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