Erie man killed after asking motorist to slow down

Apr 27, 2009 Full story: Evening Sun 465

A 30-year-old Erie man is dead after being shot and killed for telling a motorist to slow down while driving through a residential neighborhood.

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Jup

Since: Mar 09

Harborcreek, PA

#104 Apr 29, 2009
The Real Truths wrote:
Didn't read where the victim stood in front of the car.....was that in the ETN?
I was under the impression that Sack yelled at the speeding car, the car stopped and then the situation escalated.....isn't this the way it happened?
That is what I interpreted... Also, it didn't accidentally go off... Read the story. He had to pull the trigger twice because he keeps an empty round in the chamber.

“Love Freedom, Thank a Soldier”

Since: Feb 08

Erie,PA

#105 Apr 29, 2009
The Real Truths wrote:
Didn't read where the victim stood in front of the car.....was that in the ETN?
I was under the impression that Sack yelled at the speeding car, the car stopped and then the situation escalated.....isn't this the way it happened?
OBJECTION! Hearsay, Your Honor...
TWTL

Edinboro, PA

#106 Apr 29, 2009
Hap wrote:
<quoted text>Pure speculation on you're part, the facts will come out in court.
Of course it's pure speculation.

“RVN-'68-'69 25th Infantry ”

Since: Dec 07

USA

#107 Apr 29, 2009
khp33 wrote:
<quoted text>
OBJECTION! Hearsay, Your Honor...
All I know is what I read in the paper....you have better sources?
Kgo

Erie, PA

#108 Apr 29, 2009
Jup wrote:
<quoted text>
That is what I interpreted... Also, it didn't accidentally go off... Read the story. He had to pull the trigger twice because he keeps an empty round in the chamber.
Exactly, there was NO accident, Atkin ment to kill Jayson. He knew he had to shoot twice and he did!

“Love Freedom, Thank a Soldier”

Since: Feb 08

Erie,PA

#109 Apr 29, 2009
The Real Truths wrote:
<quoted text>
All I know is what I read in the paper....you have better sources?
And we thought you just looked at the pictures...JK.
TWTL

Edinboro, PA

#110 Apr 29, 2009
Consider this: Would a guy looking for a confrontation pull out his cell phone and dial 911 for the police and be on the line with them during the confrontation and remain on the line after the shooting?

The only thing that make sense to me is that he thought the guy in the street, blocking him from passing, was some kind of lunatic so he called the police. It's not unreasonable for someone who carries a gun to think "NOW is the one time I'm glad I carry one!"

It's unfortunate the Sack rushed toward him. I think I would have pulled the trigger, too. And of course he KNEW he had to pull the trigger twice. His whole point is that the gun did NOT discharge accidentally. His story is he fired deliberately in self defense.

A hot head would not dial 911 first!
Kgo

Erie, PA

#111 Apr 29, 2009
TWTL wrote:
Consider this: Would a guy looking for a confrontation pull out his cell phone and dial 911 for the police and be on the line with them during the confrontation and remain on the line after the shooting?
The only thing that make sense to me is that he thought the guy in the street, blocking him from passing, was some kind of lunatic so he called the police. It's not unreasonable for someone who carries a gun to think "NOW is the one time I'm glad I carry one!"
It's unfortunate the Sack rushed toward him. I think I would have pulled the trigger, too. And of course he KNEW he had to pull the trigger twice. His whole point is that the gun did NOT discharge accidentally. His story is he fired deliberately in self defense.
A hot head would not dial 911 first!
I bet he did not dial 911 until after he already had the gun out, he's a criminal justice major and knows how to work the system. He only dialed 911 to cover his A** and make it look ligitimate!
noparty

Warren, OH

#112 Apr 29, 2009
mrkihn wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I was stupidity with both of them.
It was wrong that the driver was driving way to fast in that area, It was wrong that he got out of his car with a gun in hand proving he was looking for trouble . I would say the driver over reacted to the incident by even getting out of his car
Now as far as the guy who was killed. He was right to yell at the jerk for driving too fast when there where children close to the street.
But why in the Hell would he try to disarm a guy with a gun in which only then resulted in his death. Did he want to prove his toughness?
Atkins first mistake was getting out of the car, Sacks body was to the rear of the car, ie behind it, so Atkins would have had to walk BACK towards the victim.(Even if he was in front, one could back up to get away), so here is his mistake, he had a way to flee and chose not to.

The second mistake was taking the gun (that was not his) with him.

And let me get this straight, you are holding a gun, pointing it at someone and talking on the phone, and the victim comes up close enough to start punching on you before you get a shot out? The victim according to a number of witness who were interviewed at the scene, the victim did not go for the gun, he went to push it away when the jerk pointed at his brother and who was behind his brother, his young nephew. So it does not sound like he was trying to be tough, sounds like he did not want it pointed at his brother and the child.

Atkins should have never been given a permit to carry a weapon given his record.

As far as the victim's being tough, he served out county and protected out freedom for a few years.
noparty

Warren, OH

#113 Apr 29, 2009
Kgo wrote:
<quoted text>I bet he did not dial 911 until after he already had the gun out, he's a criminal justice major and knows how to work the system. He only dialed 911 to cover his A** and make it look ligitimate!
That's not going to fly, he admitted to always leaving one chamber empty and that he had to click it twice. He had one extra chance to rethink his actions when the gun did not go off, he decided not to use it.
TWTL

Edinboro, PA

#114 Apr 29, 2009
From my point of view, it makes no difference whether he pulled the gun first then dialed 911 or vice versa. I'd pull the gun first, too, if I had a guy in the street blocking my car and being angry with me and I didn't even know what was going on.

A guy looking for a fight does not dial 911 to report that he has a gun pointed at the other guy. If he was looking for a fight, he would have fought. He didn't. He pulled his gun for self defense and shot in self defense when the guy lunged at him. If Sack was blocking him from passing, that would mean that Sack was only a few feet away from Atkin when he lunged at him.

This is the hazard of carrying a weapon for protection and self defense. He had not time to think and fired. If he had not been carrying a gun, the worst that would have happened would have been a fist fight.

I doubt Atkin feels like that gun kept him safe and protected now.


noparty

Warren, OH

#115 Apr 29, 2009
khp33 wrote:
<quoted text>
OBJECTION! Hearsay, Your Honor...
There was a map in the paper, the house was west of the car, the car was facing/heading east and the body was "west" of the car, in other words behind the car.
noparty

Warren, OH

#116 Apr 29, 2009
jjjr wrote:
Totally agree with TWTL. Sounds like Sack was the agressor in the situation. Atkin was just defending himself. Just look at Sacks prior criminal record, sound like a tough guy!! Especially after drinking, you see it all the time.
Maybe he should not of tried to 'disarm' Atkin. Sounds like he was shot accidently during the scuffle. Wait till we get to hear the 911 tapes I am sure Atkin will get off with a self defense claim. Plus if he knew that he was in the wrong, WHY did he not run, but instead he stayed and waited for the police and knew that he was in the right, and his actions were correct.
Way to go Joel, back u up 100%. Got another PUNK TOUGH GUY OFF THE STREET!
IDIOT. We would have hear about the 911 before the jerk spoke about it, if he had actually called before he shot. Why did he not call before getting out of the call? Better yet, he could have called from inside the car. He stop several feet from the house and could had just drove off but did not. It was in his blood to begin with, nice rap sheet he has, punched out four of an old mans teeth and then ran from the law.

Oh and by the way, the punk served our county for a time, bet the big briuser didn't. The only thing it appears he has contributed to society is criminal activity.
TWTL

Edinboro, PA

#117 Apr 29, 2009
noparty wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a map in the paper, the house was west of the car, the car was facing/heading east and the body was "west" of the car, in other words behind the car.
He could have stumbled a few feet and fell behind the car. Don't forget, he lunged at Atkin and they could have scuffled a few feet back, too, before he fired.
BeckyKnapp

Stow, OH

#118 Apr 29, 2009
TWTL wrote:
From my point of view, it makes no difference whether he pulled the gun first then dialed 911 or vice versa. I'd pull the gun first, too, if I had a guy in the street blocking my car and being angry with me and I didn't even know what was going on.
A guy looking for a fight does not dial 911 to report that he has a gun pointed at the other guy. If he was looking for a fight, he would have fought. He didn't. He pulled his gun for self defense and shot in self defense when the guy lunged at him. If Sack was blocking him from passing, that would mean that Sack was only a few feet away from Atkin when he lunged at him.
This is the hazard of carrying a weapon for protection and self defense. He had not time to think and fired. If he had not been carrying a gun, the worst that would have happened would have been a fist fight.
I doubt Atkin feels like that gun kept him safe and protected now.
I could be wrong, but I got the impression that he was essentially trying to "play cop" by calling 911 and holding Sack at gunpoint -- like he was making a citizen's arrest. And truthfully, I can't believe that he was in fear for his life. You don't get out of the car if you're afraid for your life -- it was broad daylight, there were lots and lots of people around and I believe after shouting at him, Sack came up from behind his car.
I think Atkin is young, a little too gung-ho about "playing cop" and he made a big, bad error in judgment.
noparty

Warren, OH

#119 Apr 29, 2009
TWTL wrote:
<quoted text>
He could have stumbled a few feet and fell behind the car. Don't forget, he lunged at Atkin and they could have scuffled a few feet back, too, before he fired.
Again, Atkin could have not gotten out of his caror better yet, kept driving. Can't use self defense if you have an option to flee and he did. Forwards, backwards don't matter, he had an out but chose not to use it.
TWTL

Edinboro, PA

#120 Apr 29, 2009
I don't see a problem with Atkin making a "citizen's arrest" by dialing the police and holding his aggressor at bay with a gun. Maybe from Atkin's point of view, Sack was acting way too aggressive. You can't just stand in the street and stop cars to confront the driver. There were plenty of errors in judgment, but I think the first and biggest one was Sack's decision to stop Atkin.

Since: Jan 09

Harborcreek, PA

#121 Apr 29, 2009
TWTL wrote:
The more I learn about this case and the closer I look at it, I'm convinced that Joel Atkin did indeed act in self defense.
I was originally under the impression that Atkin stopped his car after being yelled at and then backed up to confront his verbal assailant.
After reading more carefully the details of what happened, I can CLEARLY see why Atkin felt he was defending himself.
This was not a case of "road rage." Atkin was driving along when all of a sudden Jayson Sack ran into the road and stood there to force Atkin to stop his vehicle while he was yelling angrily.
Atkin, stunned and now possibly frightened by being forced to stop his vehicle in a "not so safe" neighborhood, may have thought it was a car-jacking or a robbery, etc. He "immediately" reached for his gun AND dialed 911. He now realizes that Sack is upset (to put it mildly) as he is being raged at for "speeding" down a residential street. It's easy to understand why Atkin would feel he was in danger.
I'm sure Sack's anger at speeders had been building for a long time and Atkin was the unfortunate person who was going to get the full brunt of it.(It's "possible" Sack was drinking at this party, and he was filled with 'liguid courage' when he stood in the street and forced Atkin's car to stop. I don't know. But it's sounds plausible considering the outrageously foolish and dangerous thing he did by jumping in the street to force the car to stop.)
So now here is Atkin...facing a very hostile guy in the middle of the street blocking his way so he reaches for his gun and dials 911. He tells the dispatcher that he has a gun pointed on the guy who he feels is literally holding him hostage.. When Sack moved toward him, Atkin, fearing for his life, pulled the trigger. I think I would, too.
He was probably so shook up that within less than a minute he was forced to stop his car for a what he feared might have been a robbery, mugging, carjacking, and with fear and adrenalin is pumping through his veins and when the guy lunged toward him he fired. It all happened so quickly.
It is a senseless tragedy that too place and it would have never happened if Jayson Sack would not have "forced" Joel Atkin to stop his car. Atkin had no idea what was going on. He could not possibly know that Sack was fed up with people who race over that short, one block long street. His anger over speeders had reached a boiling point by the time Joel Atkin came along. Sack just picked the wrong car to pull over.
I now firmly believe that Atkin did act in self defense.
His actions after the shooting clearly indicate that he felt horrible about what had just happened and he was probably in shock, all the while remaining on the line with the 911 dispatcher until the police arrived. Witnesses said he was sobbing.
This is a tragedy all the way around for everyone involved, but I firmly believe that Atkin did indeed act in self defense.
that may have some truth....some of this story doesnt sound right..but atkins did not need to get out of his car ith a gun...he could have drivin around him...

Since: Jan 09

Harborcreek, PA

#122 Apr 29, 2009
Kgo wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no way Joel acted in self defense. If he feared for his life why the He!! did he get out of his car?? I agree they were both tough guys but, I really don't think Jayson jumped in front of a speeding car to stop him. I think he ran out into the steet yelling things at Joel and Joel got mad stopped the car to prove he was tough, with his gun, pointed it at Jayson and when Jayson wanted to fight back Joel pulled the trigger!! I don't care what Jayson was yelling but Joel had no right to get out of his car and kill him. NOT SELF DEFENSE!!!! He needs to go away forever!!
I agree with this post more than anyone...this is probably how it really happened. Atkins could have just kept on driving and none of this would have happened...
BeckyKnapp

Stow, OH

#123 Apr 29, 2009
TWTL wrote:
I don't see a problem with Atkin making a "citizen's arrest" by dialing the police and holding his aggressor at bay with a gun. Maybe from Atkin's point of view, Sack was acting way too aggressive. You can't just stand in the street and stop cars to confront the driver. There were plenty of errors in judgment, but I think the first and biggest one was Sack's decision to stop Atkin.
I agree with you there. Shouting out, "Slow down!" would have been enough. I don't think Sack needed to go out to the street to make his point. That was a bad move.

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