Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 71939 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: Jan 14

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#72318 Apr 23, 2014
CRASS MATERIALISM AND THE LOSS OF FINER FACULTIES

CHARLES DARWIN developed, in his own words, a "curious and lamentable loss of the higher aesthetic tastes."

Charles Darwin expressed this loss in his autobiography:

"I have said in one respect that my mind has changed over the last 20 or 30 years. Up to the age of 30 or beyond it, poetry of many kinds such as the works of Milton, Gray, Byron, Wordsworth, Coleridge and Shelley gave me great pleasure, and even as a school boy, I took intense delight in Shakespeare...I have also said that formerly pictures gave me considerable, and music very great delight. But now for many years, I cannot endure to read to read a line of poetry: I have tried lately to read Shakespeare and found it so intolerably dull that it nauseated me. I've also almost lost my taste for pictures and music....My mind seems to have become a kind of machine for grinding general laws out of a large collection of facts, but why this should have caused the atrophy of that part of the brain alone, on which the higher tastes depend, I cannot conceive....The loss of these tastes is a loss of happiness, and may possibly be injurious to the intellect, and more probably to the moral character, by enfeebling the emotional part of our nature."

JOEL: It's ironic that Darwin should have expressed these thoughts.

LIAM R: The premature death of a beloved child can do that to a man...

JOEL: No. Shouldn't the so-called personal gain of Darwin associated with his crass materialism led him to greater joys?

Death of a child is a "personal loss" to a parent but crass materialism is seen as a "personal gain" by its advocates and so how can "personal loss" due to the death of a near one be compared to a "personal gain" that a crass materialists associates with his philosophy?

Premature death of a child can make a person overly emotional for some time but if the parent is emotionally mature he soon recovers from the shock and carries on with his normal life and with the passage of time the loss of the child usually heals without damaging or petrifying any of the finer faculties of the parent - in fact, on many occasions, grief may bring out greater appreciation of nature, life, relationships, compassion, aesthetics and literature; whereas, on the other hand, crass materialism, in many ways, as seen in the case of Charles Darwin, leads to a life-long state of desensitization/destruction of the finer faculties that's quite different from an overly emotional state associated with the grieving parent that usually endures for some time.

Darwin has given us a good picture of how his finer faculties either got desensitized or atrophied due to his crass materialistic beliefs that begins with dead matter and ends with dead matter and which follow blind mechanistic processes that does not distinguish between a stone and a human being.

Since: Jan 14

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#72321 Apr 23, 2014
SENTIENCE

PART 1

JOEL: How did sentience arise in insentient matter?

LIAM R: The rise of sentience is not a paradox. As long as energy continues to enter a system, that system can grow in complexity.

JOEL: How would that explain the rise of sentience in insentient energy/matter remembering that sentience and insentience are diametrically opposite states with no causal connection to each other?

A complex system would lead to what?

Ordered or disordered states?

Assuming that even if greater energy inputs enter a system thereby leading to a highly complex ordered state would this give rise to sentience in the system?

Take the example of an entity that in the mineral kingdom is sufficiently complex and pretty well ordered like a crystal.

A crystal or crystalline solid is a solid material whose constituent atoms, molecules, or ions are arranged in an ordered pattern extending in all three spatial dimensions.

So, is there any degree of sentience manifested in the crystal?

Will a greater input of energy into the crystal make it more complex and thereby living?

OTOH, take the smallest microbe which is also a complex entity that displays a good degree of order but the difference is that it is sentient with it showing all the attendant signs of life.

Since: Jan 14

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#72322 Apr 23, 2014
PART 2:

Take a just expired living being and pump into it all the energy in the form of chemicals or electrical impulses one wishes to but in-spite of these inputs its existing complex machinery won't get more complex and come back to life.

So, where lies the difference?

If one takes the stand of matter itself being innately charged with sentient, as demonstrated by J C Bose, then one can logically assert that energy assumes a hierarchy of materials forms with the degree of its innate sentience corresponding to the degree of complexity of its material form which thereby indicates that each material form is based on a sentient principle that inheres in the energy field and as such one avoids the strained and fruitless explanation of having to create sentience from insentient energy/matter which is simply impossible and a shocking paradox and which stands on the same illogical level of the religious belief in creation from nothing.

Since: Jan 14

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#72323 Apr 23, 2014
For most people, charity consists of giving anything to anyone without even knowing whether this gift corresponds to a real need. Thus charity is made synonymous with sentimental weakness and irrational squandering.

Since: Jan 14

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#72324 Apr 23, 2014
THINK BEFORE ACTING

By a faulty distribution of material possessions, one can hasten the downfall of certain individuals by encouraging them to be lazy, instead of favoring their progress by inciting them to effort. The same holds true for intelligence and love. To give someone a knowledge which is too strong for him, thoughts which he cannot assimilate, is to deprive him for long, if not for ever, of the possibility of thinking for himself, conversely, the knowledge dispensed could be erroneously applied with harmful consequences. In the same way, to impose on someone an affection or a love, for which he feels no need, is to make him carry a burden which is often too heavy for his shoulders.

Since: Jan 14

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#72325 Apr 23, 2014
CUT WASTE

There is wisdom in charity as everywhere, and it is to reduce waste to the minimum. Thus to be truly charitable one must be “impersonal”. And once more we see that all lines of human progress converge on the same necessity: self-mastery, dying to oneself in order to be born into the new and true life. To the extent that we outgrow the habit of referring everything to ourselves, we can exercise a truly effective charity, a charity that's one with love.

Since: Jan 14

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#72326 Apr 23, 2014
THE SUBLIME GIVING

There is a sublime charity, one which rises from a happy heart, from a serene soul. One who has won inner peace is a herald of deliverance wherever he goes, a bearer of hope and joy. Is not this what poor and suffering humanity needs above all things? Yes, there are certain men whose thoughts are all love, who radiate love, and the mere presence of these individuals is a charity far more active, more real than any other form of charity. Though they utter no word and make no gesture, yet the sick are relieved, the tormented are soothed, the ignorant are enlightened, the wicked are appeased, those who suffer are consoled and all undergo this deep transformation which will open new horizons to them, enable them to take a step forward which no doubt will be decisive, on the infinite path of progress

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#72327 Apr 23, 2014
former res wrote:
The conception of God in Judaism is strictly monotheistic. God is an absolute one, indivisible and incomparable being who is the ultimate cause of all existence. Jewish tradition teaches that the true aspect of God is incomprehensible and unknowable, and that it is only God's revealed aspect that brought the universe into existence, and interacts with mankind and the world. In Judaism, the one God of Israel is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who is the guide of the world, delivered Israel from slavery in Egypt, and gave them the 613 Mitzvot at Mount Sinai as described in the Torah.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Judaism
We can split hairs, but there are many different God concepts in the Jewish religion, from the God in the sky of the literal reading of the bible to various panentheistic, pantheist, and non dualistic concepts popular in Hasidism and in the Kabbala.

The citations you are quoting dont get into the issue very deeply

Try this source
Everything Is God: The Radical Path of Nondual Judaism
http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Is-God-Radic...

or this
Radical Judaism: Rethinking God and Tradition
http://www.amazon.com/Radical-Judaism-Rethink...

Since: Jan 14

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#72328 Apr 23, 2014
THE CORRECT ATTITUDE:

We want to diminish suffering, but unless we change in fundamental ways from the mind to the emotion to the body and down to the subconscient, the capacity of suffering remains intact and humankind will not change.

We turn in a circle – one civilization follows another; but the thing does not change, for there is something missing which is the higher consciousness with its transforming force.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#72329 Apr 23, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
\
"As one of the most culturally significant Jewish holidays, Yom Kippur is observed by many secular Jews who may not observe other holidays. Many secular Jews attend synagogue on Yom Kippur—for many secular Jews the High Holy Days are the only recurring times of the year in which they attend synagogue[4]—causing synagogue attendance to soar."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur
My sis and mom only go to mass on Christmas eve.
Yet they both consider themselves to be Catholic.
Maybe I'm just an all or nothing type guy. aka obsessive-compulsive
:)
ps I need a few sunny dry days in a row to scrap and paint my bilco doors!!! maybe tomorrow
Part of your "all or nothing" has to do with the fact you want to believe before you leap.

But as you know, there are many gradations in between.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#72330 Apr 23, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
"To god" - see above. To who/what? your conscience? the better you? the universe?
I believe in some of those.
You should chat with Eric - he is Reform, he would have a better handle on what his movement stands for regarding whether the Torah is divine or not.

Since: Jan 14

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#72331 Apr 23, 2014
THE SO-CALLED NONDUAL JUDAISM - A HOAX

"In this nondual view, everyone and everything manifests God"

JOEL: Misleading idea.

It is just the other way around.

The Source (G-d) manifests out of its essence everything that exists which means that every manifested aspect of the Source is in the essence a holon with the perfection of the Source inhering in its core.

How each holon develops would depend on its evolution in space-time over numerous cosmic cycles that in turn is determined by its karma.

If we take the stand of the Kaballah which is that "everyone and everything manifests God" it would imply that this so-called God permeates the universe and that by some close living in God we come to connect with this God and as such manifest God.

This is dualism in which there somehow exists a causal link between God and being and that through following him we come to connect with him and as such manifest him.

To manifest God does not mean to become God.

To manifest God means to connect with this God and to become a tiny channel of somehow receiving his power.

Nondualism is very different - it is simply a case of the One manifesting as the Many with the Many being a certain number of equally constituted holons (with the essence of the One at the core of each holon) that through many cosmic cycles get more and more in direct touch with their core which is the essence of the Source itself and at last after one re-merges with the core consciousness the subject-object divide dissolves and the holon reclaims its original nature which is that of the Source with there being no fundamental difference between subject and object in this highest nondual poise - "I am God" says the mystic after this fundamental experiences in the deepest of trance states on the highest plane of existence that he connects with through his awakened psychic.

Since: Jan 14

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#72333 Apr 23, 2014
In a future post, I'll explain why BUDDHISM is NOT a NON-DUAL faith despite the puerile writings of ignorant people claiming it to be a monistic faith.

Since: Jan 14

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#72334 Apr 23, 2014
BUDDHA HAD A PARTIAL UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY

BUDDHA was a partially perfected being whose idea of perfection was shallow and much of it was directed at a timid acceptance of the morbid life conditions without any attempt to perfect the inferior movements and to whom perfection meant a simple stepping back from everything of a disturbing nature. Another mistake Buddha made was to consider everything to be in a never-ending state of flux which is not the case except in the frontal aspects of existence. Change and evanescence are the phenomena of the lower parts. All these inferior teachings are only to be expected from an individual (Buddha) whose highest knowledge of the reality began and ended in the cosmic Maya without any idea of the numerous planes of the cosmic hierarchy leading to the source and the way to perfecting every lower plane by bringing down the power of the highest planes into the lower vehicles.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72335 Apr 23, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
We can split hairs, but there are many different God concepts in the Jewish religion, from the God in the sky of the literal reading of the bible to various panentheistic, pantheist, and non dualistic concepts popular in Hasidism and in the Kabbala.
The citations you are quoting dont get into the issue very deeply
Try this source
Everything Is God: The Radical Path of Nondual Judaism
http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Is-God-Radic...
or this
Radical Judaism: Rethinking God and Tradition
http://www.amazon.com/Radical-Judaism-Rethink...
LOL!!

Look at the titles of the books you posted. Do you really think Jews are the only ones who can pronounce that "Everything is God" or "A New Radical Look at what believing in god means........" Seriously.

When all else fails, just change the definitions (that is, move the goal posts).

You can call anything anything you want.

You are a theist and you believe in god. We established that a while back. Or at lest I did.

you just like to dress it up in a lot of new age language but under all those incense and naval gazing you are a traditional god-believing, good boy!!

Nothing wrong with that. Own it!
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72336 Apr 23, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Part of your "all or nothing" has to do with the fact you want to believe before you leap.
But as you know, there are many gradations in between.
I already 'practice' in the way I mentioned, Golden Rule.

And I enjoy going to church.

The spirit never moved me anymore than that.

But I do try and keep an open mind, believe it or not.

Since: Jan 14

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#72337 Apr 23, 2014
DEBUNKING THE GOLDEN RULE

In a future post, I will debunk this so-called Golden Rule and show that action and reaction forces are not equal in the human arena which is constituted of a variety of evolutionary movements or evolutionary mechanisms and that perfect equilibrium spells death and as such this so-called Golden Rule is a misleading idea.

Since: Jan 14

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#72338 Apr 23, 2014
OCCAM'S RAZOR is also a tool that's rooted in naivety and limitation. More on why Occam's Razor gives wrong results, later.

Since: Jan 14

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#72339 Apr 23, 2014
ADMISSION REQUIREMENTS TO OXFORD UNIVERSITY ARE RIDICULOUS

Interestingly, one the world's top 10 institutions of higher learning, Britain's Oxford University, has thrown open its gate to high achieving Grade 12 students from India of the ISC and CBSE boards with the condition for direct entry into its undergrad courses being that a student must score 90% marks or more in at least 5 subjects and where admission to undergrad science and technology courses are concerned, the students may need to pass the challenging IIT Joint Entrance Exam (IIT JEE) and place in top ranks.

I find the admission criteria very surprising since the Math, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and English syllabi of the Grade 12 Indian academic boards, especially the ISC Board, is of a much higher standard than the syllabus of Britain's A Level or of the Geneva-based IB Board.

As for the demand that an Indian student seeking admission to Oxford may be needed to pass the IIT entrance exam, well, I must say that a student who passes the challenging IIT entrance exam would have the knowledge and problem solving skills of Oxford University's 3rd year undergrad students many of who will fail to clear the IIT JEE.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72340 Apr 23, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
DEBUNKING THE GOLDEN RULE
In a future post, I will debunk this so-called Golden Rule and show that action and reaction forces are not equal in the human arena which is constituted of a variety of evolutionary movements or evolutionary mechanisms and that perfect equilibrium spells death and as such this so-called Golden Rule is a misleading idea.
I will be waiting right here for your incisive analysis.

BTW, how can it possibly be "misleading" to treat others in the way that you wish to be treated?

Do you advocate a different approach?

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