Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72037 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

former res

Cheshire, CT

#66443 Jan 28, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
But I'm not arguing about Judaism. I don't argue about Judaism with anyone but Jews.
Judaism might be a myth, but it's MY myth. I don't want to sell it to you. I don't even want you to believe in it.
The day I come to you and say my myth is better than yours and you should believe it, you are free to ridicule and critique my myth.
I try not to do that out of respect.(Though on occasion I have slipped.)

If part if someone's belief is to "spread the word" I think that should be respected as well.

You made the following comment:

Rick Moss wrote:

"Arguing the detail of the life and genealogy of Jesus is a little like arguing whether unicorn horns twist clockwise or anti-clockwise. "

My point is that you're casting a stone from a glass house. Your admit your own beliefs are also built on a foundation of sand.

If you don't like being preached to, I understand that. But making fun of the particulars of someone else's myth is hypocritical in my view.

You seem to be saying that Christians by proselytizing, that this gives you carte blanche ridicule their religion.

It's intellectually dishonest at best. It really makes no sense.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66444 Jan 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Shamanism is the worlds oldest religion. Though at some level it is debatable when a set of practices are only a set of practices and not an organized religion. However, there is definitely a world view associated with shamanism. Plus, Hinduism is not monolithic either.
Didn't say it was.

But you get my point.

Golden Rule etc. It seems no one owns it..

And it's something I actually do believe in. And it seems like common sense too.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#66445 Jan 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
...You seem to be saying that Christians by proselytizing, that this gives you carte blanche ridicule their religion...
In the words of the great Talmudic scholar, Will Smith,'if you don't start nothin', there won't be nothin'

The moment you start selling your goods you have to expect someone to question or even ridicule their value. Do the makers of Pet Rocks or Whoopie cushions get to cry foul if people say their products are worthless gose?

Those who chose to proselytize need to grow a pretty thick skin if they want to sell in my neighbourhoods.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#66446 Jan 28, 2014
The 'Love your neighbor as yourself:' is a childish mitzvah or commandment.

First, you can't command a person to love someone.

Second, this mitzvah or command is only ristricted to your neighbor. What about the others?

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#66447 Jan 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>...Your admit your own beliefs are also built on a foundation of sand...
I admit no such thing. You're in no position to judge my beliefs because you have no idea what they are. I have never chosen to share them with you.

Or, are you one of those folks who 'know' what Jews believe because you read something on Stormfront?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66448 Jan 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>

You seem to be saying that Christians by proselytizing, that this gives you carte blanche ridicule their religion.
But I would argue that it DOES give carte blanche to comment in turn. And in this particular case, the proselytizing was personal, i.e. directed at us.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66449 Jan 28, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
In the words of the great Talmudic scholar, Will Smith,'if you don't start nothin', there won't be nothin'
The moment you start selling your goods you have to expect someone to question or even ridicule their value. Do the makers of Pet Rocks or Whoopie cushions get to cry foul if people say their products are worthless gose?
Those who chose to proselytize need to grow a pretty thick skin if they want to sell in my neighbourhoods.
.

Fair enough.

And by the same token, those who take pot shots at the beliefs of others will have pot shots taken at their own.

But wouldn't it be better to live and let live?

Or in other words:

The phrase originates from the Sermon on the Mount in the New Testament. In the Gospel of Matthew, an alternative for "an eye for an eye" is given by Jesus:

38 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

—Matthew 5:38–5:42 KJV

Your way hasn't worked too well in the world.

These things only escalate and then we all know what happens.

It's enough to give religion a bad name.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66450 Jan 28, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
The 'Love your neighbor as yourself:' is a childish mitzvah or commandment.
First, you can't command a person to love someone.
Second, this mitzvah or command is only ristricted to your neighbor. What about the others?
Village idiot

There are loads (I would said buckets) on commentary on that issue of commanding love. Because you are idiot with a chip on your shoulder, it would never occur to you to explore this.

Second, I dont know how more expansive than neighbor, than neighbor could be. Really. Would you feel better if it said love Stefano as yourself. Would that better appeal to your touchy feely ego?

Third, why do you even bother to comment? No one really cares what you think is childish.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66451 Jan 28, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
I admit no such thing. You're in no position to judge my beliefs because you have no idea what they are. I have never chosen to share them with you.
Or, are you one of those folks who 'know' what Jews believe because you read something on Stormfront?
You referred to Judaism as a myth, I didn't.(I generally use the term "fairy tales" for religion when I'm feeling snarky!)

myth noun \&#712;mith\

: an idea or story that is believed by many people but that is not true

: a story that was told in an ancient culture to explain a practice, belief, or natural occurrence

: such stories as a group

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myt...

I have not judged your specific beliefs.

But I would be happy to offer a critical, rational review if asked.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66452 Jan 28, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
I admit no such thing. You're in no position to judge my beliefs because you have no idea what they are. I have never chosen to share them with you.
Or, are you one of those folks who 'know' what Jews believe because you read something on Stormfront?
In defense of FR (who can surely hold is own) he is not judging, he is questioning.

The bias he comes from is rooted in Christian secularity, which posits that belief is at the center of everything. Which is obviously counter to how many other religions (such as ours) operate.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66453 Jan 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>.
Fair enough.
And by the same token, those who take pot shots at the beliefs of others will have pot shots taken at their own.
But wouldn't it be better to live and let live?

Your way hasn't worked too well in the world.
These things only escalate and then we all know what happens.
It's enough to give religion a bad name.
In defense of Rick (who can surely hold is own), his caustic replies are clearly not meant to represent religious beliefs.

Again, who was doing the provoking? Huggy or him?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66454 Jan 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
But I would argue that it DOES give carte blanche to comment in turn. And in this particular case, the proselytizing was personal, i.e. directed at us.
Again, fair enough.

But there are comments and then there are comments.

Comparing Jesus with a unicorn is just plain lazy and the
same could be said of Moses etc. It's just dumb. And hypocritical, which
is really my biggest complaint.

Again, all due respect.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66455 Jan 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, fair enough.
But there are comments and then there are comments.
Comparing Jesus with a unicorn is just plain lazy and the
same could be said of Moses etc. It's just dumb. And hypocritical, which
is really my biggest complaint.
Again, all due respect.
I think we will just have to agree to disagree with this one.

Like many other things, the line about Jesus as a unicorn was not only meant at face value but as a symbol of hypocrisy in general. I think we are arguing over who was hypocritical (first).

Cant speak for others - but for me, tone and past understandings go a long way in formulating a reaction. If you compared Moses to a Unicorn I would shrug it off or analyze it to death. When Joel or Stefano-idiot do this, I go for the jugular.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#66456 Jan 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Village idiot
There are loads (I would said buckets) on commentary on that issue of commanding love. Because you are idiot with a chip on your shoulder, it would never occur to you to explore this.
Second, I dont know how more expansive than neighbor, than neighbor could be. Really. Would you feel better if it said love Stefano as yourself. Would that better appeal to your touchy feely ego?
Third, why do you even bother to comment? No one really cares what you think is childish.
Emotional people like you give always stupid replies, and should be far from any debate.

Even though there are loads on commentary on that issue that doesn't even mean that issue is solved.

What is more expansive than neighbour? What about love the others as yourself? Then let's not forget that the Torah gives details on how a Hebrew should treat another Hebrew and how should treat a foreign. There is a double standard.

Hypocrite.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66457 Jan 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
In defense of Rick (who can surely hold is own), his caustic replies are clearly not meant to represent religious beliefs.
Again, who was doing the provoking? Huggy or him?
In other words, "He started it!"

:)

If it hadn't been so, my NT response wouldn't have applied.

That's the whole point.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66458 Jan 28, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Emotional people like you give always stupid replies, and should be far from any debate.
Even though there are loads on commentary on that issue that doesn't even mean that issue is solved.
What is more expansive than neighbour? What about love the others as yourself? Then let's not forget that the Torah gives details on how a Hebrew should treat another Hebrew and how should treat a foreign. There is a double standard.
Hypocrite.
Your chip on your shoulder makes you look like a hunchback.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66459 Jan 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words, "He started it!"
:)
If it hadn't been so, my NT response wouldn't have applied.
That's the whole point.
The thing is, I LIKE unicorns.

Every see the tapestries at the Cloister Museum (NYC)?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66460 Jan 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I think we will just have to agree to disagree with this one.
Like many other things, the line about Jesus as a unicorn was not only meant at face value but as a symbol of hypocrisy in general. I think we are arguing over who was hypocritical (first).
I don't care who did it first.

That to me is a BS excuse.

Period.

Nor would I teach my kid (had I any) that it was ok to lie, steal or cheat - if someone else did it first. But call me old fashion!
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Cant speak for others - but for me, tone and past understandings go a long way in formulating a reaction. If you compared Moses to a Unicorn I would shrug it off or analyze it to death. When Joel or Stefano-idiot do this, I go for the jugular.
I understand history on here. And that's a good point.

But I think you know that this sort of thing (religious hypocrisy) is something that goes right up my axx sideways. Call it a hobby.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#66461 Jan 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>.

Your way hasn't worked too well in the world.
Man! You make a lot of presumptions. You have no idea what my "way" is. Are you like this with everyone, or just the Jews?

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#66462 Jan 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
You referred to Judaism as a myth, I didn't.
Actually, what I said was ... "Judaism might be a myth, but it's MY myth."

What that means is, you might consider it a myth and I'm perfectly cool with that. Your beliefs effect my beliefs in no way whatsoever. My beliefs (unlike electrons going through a crystal lattice) don't change when they're observed. I might consider it a myth, literal truth, or historical allegory ... you don't know. You can only make assumptions.

Remember what happens when you make an assumption -- you make an ass out of you and umption.

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