Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday 47,061
When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore. Full Story
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#32897 Nov 19, 2012
steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver wrote:
We'll be dead for forever. that's enough conservation for anyone.
Philosophy of atheist toxic topix AGW deniers, racist pigs, & alleged & proud threateners, like "steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver" & "steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling".

Jesus is a liberal AGW plot!
PHD

Oak Park, MI

#32898 Nov 20, 2012
And another day with dry cold weather. The experts forcasted wet and cold. Does anyone out there get paid for being incorrect daily?
Northie

Spokane, WA

#32899 Nov 20, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
But ... but ... I thought the upward trend was BAD, and we should ALL be worried to the point of throwing trillions of scarce public money away on carbon elimination pipe-dreams, and all go back toweaking hand-made Birkenstocks and living in yurts, reading by the fading light of windmills and solar bird genocide machines, and biking to the store.
At least you got "biking to the store" right. As for the rest, live in a yurt if you like, but the rest of us will inhabit solar-roofed homes...more of which will be within biking distance of aforementioned store.

There really isn't any choice, because the alternative is to spend untold trillions more to adapt, if we can.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/econom...
PHD

Oak Park, MI

#32900 Nov 20, 2012
And another day with dry cold weather. The experts forcasted wet and cold. Does anyone out there get paid for being incorrect daily?
Teddy R

Houston, TX

#32901 Nov 21, 2012
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
At least you got "biking to the store" right. As for the rest, live in a yurt if you like, but the rest of us will inhabit solar-roofed homes...more of which will be within biking distance of aforementioned store.

There really isn't any choice, because the alternative is to spend untold trillions more to adapt, if we can.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/econom...
Yeah - look, all kidding aside ...

Let's suspend the silly "alarmist/denier" mutually assured demonization MADness. I find the whole sterile "debate" over what Year 2100 global avg temp value forecast is correct to be tedious and pointless - as is the even more speculative arm-waving over what a Year 2100 world that's "x" deg C warmer looks like. So take whatever forecast you prefer - I'm happy to accept it so we can move on to the far more important matter of NOW WHAT EXACTLY DO WE REALISTICALLY EXPECT ANYONE TO DO ABOUT IT - you know - the practical questions for which climate scientists and bit-twiddling modelers have no answers and that the AGW Alarmist crowd doesn't have the sand to step up to.(They're too invested in thinking better of themselves via broken-record ranting jeremiads and demonizing "deniers").

Now - having accepted your forecast, it's only a forecast. The climate is essentially going to do whatever the climate is going to do over all of our lifetimes. The same scientific knowledge being cherry-picked by AGW Alarmists and climate modelers as the basis for apocalyptic forecasts of impending planetary heat-death also tells us the mean residence time of the "extra" industrial-age anthropogenic carbon already in the atmospheric inventory is so long that our goose is already cooked (if the models in which the AGW crowd places such fantastic faith are in fact complete and correct ...). The science says the climate die is already essentially cast even if carbon emissions were to be magically curtailed to completely unattainable limits tomorrow.

(cont'd)
Teddy R

Houston, TX

#32902 Nov 21, 2012
Meanwhile, the bold, "green," solar/wind/whatever low-carbon biking-to-the-store-in-planned -communities future for which the AGW Alarmist crowd so earnestly yearns is already coming through the normal operation of free individual choice, free market economics, technological innovation, and simple old-fashioned conservation. Normal market forces are already driving this transformation, in response to the steadily increasing demand and shrinking supplies of cheap carbon-based fuels and commodities generally. The AGW Alarmists' most fervent dreams are already quietly coming true without any need for the histrionics, anti-corporate/anti-globalist ideological propaganda, political posturing, endless parades of rhetorical strawmen and skeery horror stories, self-righteous appeals to "science," and wholly sterile and pointless debate BY BOTH SIDES.

So chillax already. Homo Sapiens has far more immediate and dangerous threats that are killing people by the millions every day THAT WE CAN AND SHOULD BE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT. Diverting scarce resources and the limited attention spans of Governments and NGOs away from combating these clear and present horrors to pursuing speculative "cures" for AGW "maybes" completely vague and impractical prescriptions is immoral and irrational policy.

The AGW Alarmists' Brave New Carbon-Free World is certainly NOT going to be brought about any better or faster by the kind of statist command-and-control socioeconomic engineering and collectivist forced behavior modification being pushed by the neo-Luddite/neo-Malthusian ideologies that seem to dominate the AGW Alarmist crowd.

All human experience tells us that Governments and supra-national collectives like the UN are invariably stupider than the free individuals they seek to control, and generally excel only at taking problems and, with the best of intentions, making matters dramatically worse in the long run.
frogmann

Pittsburgh, PA

#32903 Nov 21, 2012
youtube.com/watch... ………old fart or young stinkers
Northie

Spokane, WA

#32904 Nov 21, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
Meanwhile, the bold, "green," solar/wind/whatever low-carbon biking-to-the-store-in-planned -communities future for which the AGW Alarmist crowd so earnestly yearns is already coming through the normal operation of free individual choice, free market economics, technological innovation, and simple old-fashioned conservation. Normal market forces are already driving this transformation...
Is that the kind of romantic salve being passed around in libertarian support groups these days?

No one said the climate mess can be solved only by "statist UN command-and-control". At least, I didn't. In fact, some of the best progress against carbon pollution made to date is due to the advent of fracked gas, without a bureaucrat in sight. The trouble is, it's not enough.

ALL organizations of serious scientific and economic experts on climate now agree that we are headed for very bad shit at the least, or civilization-collapsing catastrophe costing hundreds of trillions at the worst. And there is no way to know whether we'll drop the hammer on an empty chamber or blow our collective head off.

What we do know is that we are cooking the climate, the consequences are far worse than expected, the problem is accelerating, and we're literally risking everything we have and that our grandkids will have.

In light of those stakes, your political opinions and mine are irrelevant--as are transient concerns such as the overbranded "Fiscal Cliff", capital gains tax rates, and the relative religious passions of Baptists or Shiites.

What is, is. After 188 years of study, ALL major national scientific academies and ALL major earth sciences societies are in total agreement that we are cooking the climate, and most are warning of extremely dire consequences if we continue.

So we won't continue, no matter what the world's largest industry persuades you to say about it. My advice: buy a bike and a condo in town. The oil industry will most definitely lose this battle.
PHD

Oak Park, MI

#32905 Nov 21, 2012
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that the kind of romantic salve being passed around in libertarian support groups these days?
No one said the climate mess can be solved only by "statist UN command-and-control". At least, I didn't. In fact, some of the best progress against carbon pollution made to date is due to the advent of fracked gas, without a bureaucrat in sight. The trouble is, it's not enough.
ALL organizations of serious scientific and economic experts on climate now agree that we are headed for very bad shit at the least, or civilization-collapsing catastrophe costing hundreds of trillions at the worst. And there is no way to know whether we'll drop the hammer on an empty chamber or blow our collective head off.
What we do know is that we are cooking the climate, the consequences are far worse than expected, the problem is accelerating, and we're literally risking everything we have and that our grandkids will have.
In light of those stakes, your political opinions and mine are irrelevant--as are transient concerns such as the overbranded "Fiscal Cliff", capital gains tax rates, and the relative religious passions of Baptists or Shiites.
What is, is. After 188 years of study, ALL major national scientific academies and ALL major earth sciences societies are in total agreement that we are cooking the climate, and most are warning of extremely dire consequences if we continue.
So we won't continue, no matter what the world's largest industry persuades you to say about it. My advice: buy a bike and a condo in town. The oil industry will most definitely lose this battle.
Due tell all your experience about fracking. Again no cut and paste show all your own work on that subject. And if you can accomplish an answer we will continue with the remainder of your statement.
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#32907 Nov 22, 2012
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
... In fact, some of the best progress against carbon pollution made to date is due to the advent of fracked gas, without a bureaucrat in sight.
...
So we won't continue, no matter what the world's largest industry persuades you to say about it.... The oil industry will most definitely lose this battle.
Putting aside the usual tedious neo-Malthusian claptrap, I'd have said I mostly agree with you - but you lost me somewhere around Turn 3 in your rather convoluted post.

Fracking a boon? Yes, it does seem fracking is curiously winning over a slowly-growing fan base among the Greenies. Sure, it's producing more effective progress in carbon reduction than the Euro-socialist carbon tax-and-trade schemes ... but at the cost of what other, more immediate and perhaps permanent, environmental damage? And it's really only carbon Methadone treatment - extending society's addiction to carbon-based fossil fuels ... last I checked, burning CH4 in massive volumes is still going to be releasing bazillions of tonnes of planet-killing CO2 ... albeit in reduced amounts vs. other fossil fuel alternatives (e.g., coal, oil). Just kicking the can down the road a bit further.

You do lift your skirt long enough to reveal your true agenda. It seems this whole "battle" you refer to isn't actually a righteous crusade to avert planet-wide environmental catastrophe for you, but merely the latest trendy flag of convenience under which you can tilt against your favorite windmill - EEEEeevul Big Ooooooiiilllll!!! <sigh> So parochial ... so yesterday ...

Just who do you think we will have to thank for bending the carbon emissions curve down and saving the planet by developing fracked natural gas? Yep - none other than your sworn enemies - BIG OIL.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/04/16/exxon-...
Thus my difficulty in following your reasoning.

(Happy Thanksgiving, by the way!)

Since: Mar 09

Kinsley, KS

#32909 Nov 22, 2012
Teddy R wrote:
<quoted text>
Putting aside the usual tedious neo-Malthusian claptrap, I'd have said I mostly agree with you - but you lost me somewhere around Turn 3 in your rather convoluted post.
Fracking a boon? Yes, it does seem fracking is curiously winning over a slowly-growing fan base among the Greenies. Sure, it's producing more effective progress in carbon reduction than the Euro-socialist carbon tax-and-trade schemes ... but at the cost of what other, more immediate and perhaps permanent, environmental damage? And it's really only carbon Methadone treatment - extending society's addiction to carbon-based fossil fuels ... last I checked, burning CH4 in massive volumes is still going to be releasing bazillions of tonnes of planet-killing CO2 ... albeit in reduced amounts vs. other fossil fuel alternatives (e.g., coal, oil). Just kicking the can down the road a bit further.
You do lift your skirt long enough to reveal your true agenda. It seems this whole "battle" you refer to isn't actually a righteous crusade to avert planet-wide environmental catastrophe for you, but merely the latest trendy flag of convenience under which you can tilt against your favorite windmill - EEEEeevul Big Ooooooiiilllll!!! <sigh> So parochial ... so yesterday ...
Just who do you think we will have to thank for bending the carbon emissions curve down and saving the planet by developing fracked natural gas? Yep - none other than your sworn enemies - BIG OIL.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/04/16/exxon-...
Thus my difficulty in following your reasoning.
(Happy Thanksgiving, by the way!)
Actually...
http://thebreakthrough.org/blog/Where_the_Sha...
Amused Slew

Minneapolis, MN

#32910 Nov 22, 2012
Sunspot activity is at a 11 year high, natural peak.

"Man" has 100 years of accurate climate records.

Earth is estimated to be 30,000,000 years old, "Man" isn't sure.

And "Man" thinks manmade activity is changing earth climate??

"Man" claiming climate change is occurring are BILLIONAIRS, like Al Gore.

"Man" dumb!
Teddy R

Mclean, VA

#32911 Nov 22, 2012
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
Interesting, thanks for linking. Yes - I worked on some of these shale oil projects in the 1980s.
PHD

Oak Park, MI

#32912 Nov 23, 2012
Record snow fall forecast for the Northern States this winter. Must be the slow warming that slowed down again.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#32914 Nov 23, 2012
phd wrote:
Record snow fall forecast for the Northern States this winter. Must be the slow warming that slowed down again.
The present Arctic sea ice extent is less than any previous year, by your state's entire area+!

Your weather disappointment means nothing at all.

Furthermore(or less), the total Arctic sea ice VOLUME loss from ~1985, amounts to the area of your state piled to a depth of ~40 to 50 meters. Now, that is weather change!

Your weather disappointment really really means nothing at all.
PHD

Oak Park, MI

#32915 Nov 23, 2012
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
The present Arctic sea ice extent is less than any previous year, by your state's entire area+!
Your weather disappointment means nothing at all.
Furthermore(or less), the total Arctic sea ice VOLUME loss from ~1985, amounts to the area of your state piled to a depth of ~40 to 50 meters. Now, that is weather change!
Your weather disappointment really really means nothing at all.
Your arctic sea ice extent really really means nothing at all.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#32916 Nov 23, 2012
Emit all the greenhouse gas you can while you live, because you won't when you're dead.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#32917 Nov 23, 2012
steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver wrote:
Emit all the greenhouse gas you can while you live, because you won't when you're dead.
"steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger brian_g stumble butt dumpster diver" will really give off GHGs, automatically when he is dead.
PHD

Oak Park, MI

#32918 Nov 24, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
Emit all the greenhouse gas you can while you live, because you won't when you're dead.
Well than do show us your study proving you don't emit gas when your dead.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#32919 Nov 24, 2012
PHD wrote:
ell than do show us your study proving you don't emit gas when your dead.
Dead: inactive, still, motionless, passive, slack, static, dormant, lifeless, leaden, immobile...

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