Harrington Civil Suit Hearing Held

A hearing is underway in the civil suit filed by Morgan Harrington's parents against the company that handles security at John Paul Jones Arena. Full Story
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Concerned

Arlington, VA

#136 Apr 29, 2013
You're spot on, Huh. It's a farce until they can counsel young adults to stay in their right mind and not get so drunk or drugged that they make bad decisions. Where's the warning not to ever, ever hitch hike? That alone would do more to help save the next girl than all the blaming in the world.
Gnu

Charlottesville, VA

#137 Apr 30, 2013
Concerned wrote:
You're spot on, Huh. It's a farce until they can counsel young adults to stay in their right mind and not get so drunk or drugged that they make bad decisions. Where's the warning not to ever, ever hitch hike? That alone would do more to help save the next girl than all the blaming in the world.
What does that have to do with locking out a ticket holding patron in the night in a sketchy area that is bleeding and disoriented?
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#139 Apr 30, 2013
Gnu wrote:
<quoted text>
What does that have to do with locking out a ticket holding patron in the night in a sketchy area that is bleeding and disoriented?
Technically she was a ticket holding patron on the way in. Once outside, since she left despite written and verbal warnings that she could not reenter, she was no longer a patron.
Moving right along

Rapid City, SD

#140 Apr 30, 2013
Do any of you think they'll ask for the death penalty when the killer/s is caught? In general, there has to be something especially bad about a murder to qualify, but the spiral fractures on the bones would qualify, along with the sexual assault.

Also, I hope the police questioned the door staff. It's possible that they had a friend who asked them to turn a "hottie" away so that they could victimize her.

As for the civil suit, if the company responsible for turning her away had been apologetic and changed their policy, then they may stand a chance with a jury. Right now they seem to be cocky about it and haven't done anything to change their ways, as if to say "No big deal your kid is dead. She should have followed our policy which we'll never change no matter how many people are killed as a result."

Juries hate people like that. Any time someone tries to put a value on a human life ("It would cost a few extra bucks to train employees to be responsible for the safety of our customers" etc.), it backfires with the jury. The family lost their child, and people at the door had the chance to be responsible and call 911 for her. They didn't.
Moving right along

Rapid City, SD

#141 Apr 30, 2013
Seriously, from one capital punishment state to another. I just googled Virginia's death penalty Wiki page, and came up with this qualifier:

"Willful, deliberate and premeditated murder in the commission of rape or attempted rape or sodomy, or attempted sodomy, or object sexual penetration"

I think they'll charge him/them with murder 1 and some type of sexual assault. What do you guys think?
Moving right along

Rapid City, SD

#142 Apr 30, 2013
Geeeez, the more I read, the crazier this case gets. Some witnesses in the comments sections claim that the getaway car had New Jersey tags. So they drove from a state that doesn't have the death penalty, to one that DOES, for the purpose of raping and killing somebody? Does that even make sense? Maybe they want to be put down, would end their misery. Like a suicide by cop thing.

And, if you read about the old Fairfax rape from the DNA profile match, he strangled the woman BEFORE raping her. What does that make him? As far as I can tell, a NECROPHILE. He likes getting it on with dead people, in other words. It also means that his murders were in fact premeditated, or at least that's the logic I think Virginia will use once they charge him. He planned to murder the girl, because that's what he does before he rapes them. Murder 1 for sure, death penalty... maybe.
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#143 Apr 30, 2013
The security company actually DID change their policies afterwards, providing additional instruction about contacting a supervisor when faced with this kind of scenario. As for death penalty, I doubt very much they'll even be able to nab him for murder or manslaughter or even rape in this case. I bet the evidence is just not there -- erased by months of snow and weather. Any dna he left could be explained away as consensual (especially if she had been propositioning the basketball players earlier as rumor has it -- makes her seem like she was out for a good time). I think they can get him for sexual assault in the earlier case, but this case? I think he'll skate.
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#144 Apr 30, 2013
To me, it's farfetched to think the staff turned a 'hottie' away so a friend could get her. They DID warn her not to leave after all. She put her own self in harm's way, sad to say, but hitch hiking. It's an old, old story. You hitch hike, and some weirdo picks you up. Normal people don't pick up hitch hikers, because the hitch hiker could easily be a weird killer. Dangerous people pick up hitch hikers because they are easy prey. She was easy prey. Climbed right into his car. Bad decision.
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#150 May 1, 2013
He'll get a small sentence for the Fairfax assault. DNA won't be enough to prove he killed Ms. Harrington. Unless he confesses, or if there's a murder weapon, and he still has it so many years later, they probably can't tie him to the crime. IF there even was one.
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#156 May 2, 2013
Have to tell you, I read every page of discovery in the Casey Anthony case and called it from long, long ago that no conviction was coming due to the scant evidence and insistence on a capital murder case. No cause of death, no murder scene, blah blah blah. Of course, I've not seen what evidence they have in this case, but I'm guessing it's pretty thin soup. No conviction coming for this guy.
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#161 May 3, 2013
If only the Commonwealth had Sunshine laws! We'd all know soooo much more and have a much more balanced perspective than 3 years of PR have provided. Hopefully we'll get some good background on young Morgan and her habits and the whole taking off during the show and hitch hiking will not be seen so much as desperation, but as the kind of thing she did all the time when she got all fired up. You're right, S Jones, the friends were acting responsibly by not letting her take the car.

What did Jilly's sisters say? I don't think I've ever heard that.
Minnehaha Mandy

United States

#162 May 3, 2013
This is why women need GUNS. I'd rather them get his DNA from his corpse with 5 of my slugs in them, than from under my fingernails on my own corpse. And if he had friends with him, all the more reason for a 10-round magazine on a semi-automatic .45.

Even a Saturday night special would do the job, or a small 9 mm.

Yes, most attacks come from people women know, and women will need training, and will have to make a decision on whether they can shoot an ex-boyfriend or not, but for stranger abductions like this, it'll put an end to whatever particular predators were responsible. No guesswork, no expensive drawn out trials on TV. He's abducting you, bang bang bang, the right guy is on the ground, either finished for good or injured enough so that the cops catch the right guy.

GUNS. Look into it, ladies. Don't discourage it, parents. It's not just a political football. It's a way to save your daughters' lives.
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#163 May 3, 2013
I guess I don't mind women shooting their abductors, BUT...they first should stop hitch hiking or otherwise getting so drunk or drugged that they are out of control in public, thus putting themselves in a vulnerable position.
Maybe Andy dunnit Mandy

United States

#167 May 4, 2013
Fact is, any cop will tell you. Police are NOT your personal security force. They show up after the crime is committed, in this case after the girl is already dead. If women want to stand a fighting chance, they need to be armed.

While it's better to have pepper spray or a taser than nothing, those are weapons that might not stop the rapist. He may just get irritated or angrier, and continue the attack if the woman can't run away fast enough.

Everything you spend on getting a GUN and learning how to use it is worth the money. You may not need it, but if you do, it could be the only thing between you and death at the hands of a low life, for no reason other than he wants to get off on your corpse.

If you can get to it and use it correctly, a gun WILL "neutralize the threat."
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#169 May 4, 2013
Morgan would not have been allowed to bring any weapons into the arena, of course.
Gnu

Charlottesville, VA

#171 May 4, 2013
ShenandoahStarz wrote:
I'd rather bury the rapist than the girl, too. For girls who go for a conceal-carry permit, get some good gun training and have respect for the weapon. Never use it in anger, practice at least a few times a year, and keep it out of the reach of kids. Most men would love a girl who'd go to the practice range with them. Make sure you can hit your target and not people off in the distance behind him.
But remember, Jodi Arias isn't in trouble because she shot her boyfriend. She's in trouble because she tried to cover it up by cleaning up the crime scene and then lying to the police. If she'd called 911 after the shooting and told police that she was attacked and had to defend herself, it's unlikely that they would have filed anything against her, or at worst manslaughter. Even then, it would probably be thrown out on the way to the judge or on appeal.
If you're attacked by a predator and are lucky enough to get to your gun on time, don't clean up the scene. Get out of harm's way first, and then you dial 911 yourself. Tell police exactly what happened when they arrive, and if you can't remember something, just say that you can't remember right away. It may come back to you later, when you're under less stress. Something like that will be traumatic and maybe hard to deal with, but it's better than ending up dead yourself. And that'll be the end of the predator's raping career.
Alexander was shot after having been stabbed 29 times and throat slit. A gun wasn't needed, but used anyways.
Andy not so Dandy Mandy

United States

#172 May 6, 2013
It's true that Morgan probably couldn't bring a gun into the arena, but some venues honor conceal-carry permits or even open carry. You'd have to check with them.

That's a good case for carrying a spare key ON YOU, in a pocket instead of purse, on your person. That's what cops do. When they leave their cars unattended with the beacon lights going, they have it locked, but a spare set on them. If the gun was in the trunk, she wouldn't have been walking alone unarmed. Also they make cute little pink pepper spray cans that you can carry in your hand with a strap on it for joggers, and many tasers are as small as an electric razor. She might have gotten those past security, especially if she had a lot of other junk in her purse that they didn't want to look through.

And if she was attacked by more than one man, a GUN would have at least sent a couple of them to the hospital. That would mean that when she was reported missing, if she'd been carrying a .22, the police would look for that kind of injury and put them on the suspect list. Most likely they'd be caught. Not necessarily so if they were just pepper sprayed. And if witnesses are right and they traveled a long way, from New Jersey or North Carolina or whatever, police should check with hospitals all along possible routs to look for injuries during the following week, like the classic fingernail scratches that rapists get from unarmed women. With a GUN, they'd be presenting with worse injuries, but apparently she wasn't armed.

Another thing about her case. Her killer must have done it before. You don't get that violent on the first try. Cops, other men, everybody needs to OUT men who come back to work bragging how they got away with raping while a woman is drunk and such. They don't need to keep their jobs, or get a promotion. Why do you think women don't go to bars or coffee shops anymore? Predators chased them off. Bad experiences. I see creepy guys hanging out everywhere these days, old greasy-haired men eyeballing young teenage girls' bodies.

So now you have to go online and give up your credit card to even look at pictures of average girls. Not that I'm saying men deserve more than average until they prove otherwise.
Andy not so Dandy Mandy

United States

#173 May 6, 2013
Come to think of it, with a spare key on her, she could have sat in the car, run the engine and listened to the radio while she waited. Or driven herself to the hospital if she felt like it. Or went out for eats. At least she would have had a locked box for transportation.

Those cute little jogger pepper sprays should be available at Bass Pro, but I don't know if Virginia branches carry them. Maybe you have other shops with them. You can hold them concealed in your hand as you walk or jog.

Funny story I read in the papers a few years back. A woman was jogging in New York, Long Island I think, and a man jumped out from the bushes along the jogging path naked except for a condom. She arrested him on the spot. She was a police officer out for a jog.

But if you're not a cop, it helps to be armed.
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#174 May 6, 2013
Morgan easily might have run someone over if she drove her car drunk from the show, so driving herself around in her drunken state probably would not have been the very best of ideas. Do they make a reverse valet key? One that only opens the trunk and doors, but won't start the car? My car has a gadget you can pull out of it (little doodad beneath the driver's side dash) that will make the car impossible to start unless replaced. Maybe her's did, too, and they could have safely given her back her keys, and she couldn't have stranded them there or driven off to do harm.
Concerned

Arlington, VA

#175 May 6, 2013
Alas, she was only 20, so too young for a concealed carry permit. Also, the arena would not allow the gun in, even with a permit, but she could have left it in the car, if she'd had one.

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