Being harassed by the local/state pol...

Being harassed by the local/state police? Read this post!!!

Posted in the Hamlin Forum

First Prev
of 5
Next Last
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#1 Feb 21, 2012
First, understand that I am not a lawyer and this should not be taken as legal advice; but, I do study the law, our Constitution, and our Bill of Rights frequently, as should you. I have discussed these attributes with several lawyers and law students in an effort to better educate myself and others about our rights during a police encounter. This is simply to inform/educate about your rights during traffic stops.

The choices we make have an immense impact on the outcome of our police encounters; even if, and especially if, you have done nothing wrong. There are a lot of good police officers that are out there doing what needs to be done and I don’t need to tell you that there are few to many cops that don’t respect the basic rights of innocent people. We don’t get to choose the officer we’re dealing with and even the nicest cops will use your mistakes against you. Every citizen, every one of us, must possess the tools to confidently assert our rights when necessary. The best way to combat this is to know the Constitution; more specifically, the Bill of Rights. Regardless of how much of an inconvenience it is to you, if you drive, eventually you are going to get pulled over. The biggest instigator of a negative police encounter is our, the citizens, attitude; remaining calm despite the demeanor of the officer is the best way for the situation to run smoothly. Before we indulge further let’s all make a few points perfectly clear.

There is NO piece of legislation that requires an officer to inform us of our rights; that is OUR responsibility as American citizens.

Unless an officer has probable cause they CANNOT search our vehicles without OUR consent.

It is possible that an officer stops us because of PROFILING but it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to prove that in a court of law.

Contrary to popular belief, police USUALLY do NOT have to read you your rights; even if you are arrested.
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#2 Feb 21, 2012
Police officers have a very dangerous job; they don’t know if you or I are waiting on them with a firearm in hand as the approach our vehicles. If we act hostile towards officers, we should expect the same hostility in return. This can have a direct correlation with our language, tone of voice, and body language. If we are scared and angry it’s easy for an officer to become scared and angry. Check the ego at the door or you’ll regret it every time. Following the rules won’t guarantee that the officer will respect your rights but it will keep you from digging yourself into a deeper hole.

There are 3 amendments in particular, from the Bill of Rights that protects us during a police encounter:

The 4th Amendment – The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall be issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 5th Amendment – No person…shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…(The smartest way to plea the 5th is to just keep quiet; don’t say “I plea the 5th,” just stay quiet)

The 6th Amendment – In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right…to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.(If you have been arrested the best thing to do during an interrogation is to ask for a lawyer, regardless of your innocence.)
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#3 Feb 21, 2012
If you are stopped for a routine traffic violation and the officer(s) asks to search your vehicle (without probable cause) you have the right, via 4th Amendment, to refuse the search. Simply say,“I’m sorry officer but I do not consent to WARRANTLESS searches.” Say it confidently but not arrogantly; don’t start screaming that you know your rights and you’re going to sue them. Don’t say you know your rights; show the officer that you know your rights by asserting them calmly. The police may LEGALLY order you out of your vehicle so you should comply. The officer may threaten to call a K9 unit to search your car and discover what you’re hiding because you wouldn’t let them search your vehicle. BEWARE, the police may LEGALLY lie to you, so never let false threats or promises trick you into waving your rights. Your refusal of a search request is NOT evidence of guilt and does not give the officer the legal right to search OR detain you; don’t get tricked. Remember this is a formal interview, unless you are being detained or arrested you can terminate the encounter at any time but don’t wait for the officer to dismiss you; simply ask if you are free to go. So, if an officer threatens to call a K9 unit because you wouldn’t let them search without a warrant, just ask the officer if you are being detained or are you free to go. This simple phrase,“Are you detaining me or am I free to go,” can help you withdraw from an encounter; saying you want to leave establishes that the encounter is not voluntary, which could help you later if you end up in court. Asserting your rights won’t make the police love you but it might make them extra cautious about violating your liberties.
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#4 Feb 21, 2012
If you are pulled over don’t try to figure out whether or not the officer has probable cause to search; you ALWAYS have the right to refuse searches. You may say,“They’re going to search anyway” and sometimes they will; but, saying NO isn’t just about stopping the search. It might stop the search or it might not; the point is that refusing the search might help you later if you end up in court. If the police search you without consent, your lawyer can challenge that; which are grounds for a mistrial because the search was illegal. Your lawyer’s ability to win your case is amplified if you refuse the search.
What’s “probable cause?” I’m glad you asked. Probable Cause means that the officer of the law must have clear facts or evidence to believe you are involved in criminal activity. Simply put, an officer’s “hunch” without evidence of illegal activity is NOT enough to search or arrest you. But, it doesn’t take much for an officer to invoke probable cause. Most avoidable searches happen not because the police have probable cause but because the citizen is tricked into consenting. Expired registration is NOT enough for an officer to search your car. Probable cause CAN be enforced if an officer can smell the presence of drugs or alcohol. If an officer can visually see illegal activity they can legally search your vehicle with probable cause. Small empty baggies, regardless of their use, can be seen as illicit drug possession giving the police the right to search. If you just came from a store and have items purchased with the sales tags still attached an officer can see that as suspicion of theft; I know it sounds crazy but it’s possible. I’m not one to tell someone how to live their life but if you are driving around with your speakers thumping and you have anti-police or drug related bumper stickers then that could make the police suspicious; is that profiling, yes, can you prove profiling in court, no. EXPRESSING yourself is one thing, but EXPOSING yourself as a public nuisance is ignorant. DON’T HAVE ANYTHING THAT COULD BE USED AS PROBABLE CAUSE IN PLAIN SIGHT WHETHER IT’S INSIDE OR OUTSIDE YOUR VEHICLE.

I myself have never been in trouble and have no criminal record but that doesn’t mean I’m going to let an officer of the law trample all over the constitution that countless soldiers have died protecting; if YOU let the police negate your rights because you’re INNOCENT you should think about the soldier’s grave you’re getting ready to spit on. I did not submit this as a tool for criminals to dodge justice; it is here as a helpful insight to law abiding citizens to ensure they are treated with the dignity and respect they deserve as human beings.

Please comment if you have questions or if you would like to share your views on said subjects.
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#5 Feb 21, 2012
There are 3 amendments in particular, from the Bill of Rights that protects us during a police encounter:

The 4th Amendment – The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall be issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 5th Amendment – No person…shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…(The smartest way to plea the 5th is to just keep quiet; don’t say “I plea the 5th,” just stay quiet)

The 6th Amendment – In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right…to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.(If you have been arrested the best thing to do during an interrogation is to ask for a lawyer, regardless of your innocence.)

If you are stopped for a routine traffic violation and the officer(s) asks to search your vehicle (without probable cause) you have the right, via 4th Amendment, to refuse the search. Simply say,“I’m sorry officer but I do not consent to WARRANTLESS searches.” Say it confidently but not arrogantly; don’t start screaming that you know your rights and you’re going to sue them. Don’t say you know your rights; show the officer that you know your rights by asserting them calmly. The police may LEGALLY order you out of your vehicle so you should comply. The officer may threaten to call a K9 unit to search your car and discover what you’re hiding because you wouldn’t let them search your vehicle. BEWARE, the police may LEGALLY lie to you, so never let false threats or promises trick you into waving your rights. Your refusal of a search request is NOT evidence of guilt and does not give the officer the legal right to search OR detain you; don’t get tricked. Remember this is a formal interview, unless you are being detained or arrested you can terminate the encounter at any time but don’t wait for the officer to dismiss you; simply ask if you are free to go. So, if an officer threatens to call a K9 unit because you wouldn’t let them search without a warrant, just ask the officer if you are being detained or are you free to go. This simple phrase,“Are you detaining me or am I free to go,” can help you withdraw from an encounter; saying you want to leave establishes that the encounter is not voluntary, which could help you later if you end up in court. Asserting your rights won’t make the police love you but it might make them extra cautious about violating your liberties.
2 posts removed
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#8 Feb 21, 2012
Sorry, I don't know why that "duel" posted.
Boom

Charleston, WV

#9 Mar 27, 2012
So what's is one to do if a police officer/s makes it common practice to brutalize and humiliate people because they know they can get away with it
duh

Saint Albans, WV

#10 Mar 28, 2012
Thanks, Joe. Maybe the next time time you can post instructions on how to make meth or how to run a prostitution ring without getting caught.
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#11 Apr 5, 2012
Boom wrote:
So what's is one to do if a police officer/s makes it common practice to brutalize and humiliate people because they know they can get away with it
Catch the officers in the act on video. Sadly, unless you have multiple witnesses that is the only way one can ensure solid disciplinary action towards the officer(s) responsible. Whenever I encounter an officer I start recording with my iphone; video is best but audio works just as well. If you are being harassed by the same officer(s) then this is the most applicable approach because even if you have visable bruises it will be your word against their's without solid, physical evidence. Please remember that the only reason they get away with it is because you let them.
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#12 Apr 5, 2012
duh wrote:
Thanks, Joe. Maybe the next time time you can post instructions on how to make meth or how to run a prostitution ring without getting caught.
Though you are entitled to your opinion via the 1st Amendment that doesn't save your comment from falling about 50 yards away from having any significant relevance to the discussion. But, feel free to attempt an explanation of your poorly dictaded words; better yet, offer up something that could be useful to your fellow man.
so joe

West Hamlin, WV

#13 Apr 7, 2012
i thought that you could'nt video tape anyone without permission???
1 post removed
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#15 Apr 17, 2012
so joe wrote:
i thought that you could'nt video tape anyone without permission???
Federal Law states that as long as you are in a public place you are allowed to do so; remember what I mentioned in the initial post, the police are legally allowed to lie to you, so if they say that you are not allowed to tape them and treaten to arrest you, just keep taping...those will be grounds for a mis-trial. I'll search for the exact law stating such facts but in the mean time you can search YouTube videos where cops tried to say one couldn't video tape them; but, once they here the camera man say that this is public property and I am allowed by law to tape anything within public boundaries, the police change the subject. This law is enforced, especially, if you are in your own vehicle because it is you private property.
just a fact

Elizabeth, NJ

#16 Apr 18, 2012
How about just don't be a shit bag and you won't have to deal with the police ??
so joe

West Hamlin, WV

#17 Apr 24, 2012
can u tape someone with a teddycam say... u think ur kids are being abused can u get it on a teddy cam and use it in court???
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#18 May 13, 2012
so joe wrote:
can u tape someone with a teddycam say... u think ur kids are being abused can u get it on a teddy cam and use it in court???
YES. You most certainly can, especially, if it's in your own home. A lot of baby sitters and caretakers of the elderly have been caught, tried, and sentenced with this exact same method. Hidden cameras to make sure your child is being well taken care of is legal and can be used as evidence.
Joe Osborne

Hamlin, WV

#19 May 13, 2012
just a fact wrote:
How about just don't be a shit bag and you won't have to deal with the police ??
I'm not a, quote, "shit-bag" and I have still been pulled over by the police during routine traffic stops and road checks were I had to enforced my rights in a calm, collective manner.
just a fact

Ardsley, NY

#20 May 14, 2012
Joe Osborne wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not a, quote, "shit-bag" and I have still been pulled over by the police during routine traffic stops and road checks were I had to enforced my rights in a calm, collective manner.
Cool story bro
imheadstrong

United States

#21 Jun 8, 2012
duh wrote:
Thanks, Joe. Maybe the next time time you can post instructions on how to make meth or how to run a prostitution ring without getting caught.
WOW Duh! Really? Your a dumb ass! Legal law abiding citizens are being harassed everyday in this country. What's it going to take for a numb skull lime you to figure it out? Maybe some one like your mother,daughter getting their rights as Americans stomped on for you to shut your ingnorant mouth so you can actually learn somthing.
imheadstrong

United States

#22 Jun 8, 2012
Joe Osborne wrote:
<quoted text>
Though you are entitled to your opinion via the 1st Amendment that doesn't save your comment from falling about 50 yards away from having any significant relevance to the discussion. But, feel free to attempt an explanation of your poorly dictaded words; better yet, offer up something that could be useful to your fellow man.
Thanks Joe you took the words out of my mouth (on a good day that is).
Mike

Ridgewood, NJ

#23 Dec 7, 2012
Thanks for the info Joe, it was very enlightning. What if a cop detains you for something petty, like rude , but not profane language,and you have not broken the law, and yet they insult your character while taking your D.L and runnung a check, and wont give you thier badge number? what is my recourse? Mike

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 5
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Hamlin Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Create your own Forum (Jun '15) 25 min YIM 1,666
Tosha Linville 4 hr Just sayin 16
Is Judge Scott Elswick fair? (Jun '14) 11 hr Miranda 32
Brandon Quintrell (Jun '12) 22 hr GARY 24
Kayla Chapman Mon A friend 11
Shay Imaboss Harper (Sep '14) Aug 28 dave 14
Mike Lovejoy Aug 28 Mabel Sowards 6

Hamlin Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Hamlin Mortgages