Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#7506 Apr 23, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Sweet Baby Jesus told me that ol' Tommy had once admitted that he really didn't know how things would work out, that he now realized that as the country changed he was thankful that the governmental framework he had helped create was flexible enough to respond to the demands of the time.
Jefferson was pretty clear in his views on a large and intrusive government:

"A wise and frugal Government,... shall leave them free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government...."

"Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

"I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."

And in talking about the effects of dependence upon others:
"Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition."
formerresident

Decatur, GA

#7507 Apr 23, 2013
Aggie, you are 100% correct on this point. Great post! I totally agree. The resistance to government is so exhausting that I wouldn't wish it on anybody in their right mind. If you are in your right mind when you start, you won't be when you finish. I have no idea how I have any sanity left, if I do.
I have never worked so focussed on a task, for so long with such little results in my life. I earned a graduate degree faster then this. It cost less and I had one piece of paper, not paper so heavy I can't carry it. Our government has so many paper trails, there is no wonder we get nothing done. We are one layered mess.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#7508 Apr 23, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
I saw the interview with him. He is a very young man and has very little real life wisdom.
His basic theory is to spend your way out of a depression. If that works then why don't you and I do that, and I bet we go bankrupt very quickly....
While it may be easy to understand when we equate government spending to household spending, the reality is that they are not alike at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deficit_spending
Government deficit spending is a central point of controversy in economics, with prominent economists holding differing views.[1] The "mainstream economics" position is that deficit spending is desirable and necessary as part of countercyclical fiscal policy, but that there should not be a structural deficit: run deficits during recessions to compensate for the shortfall in aggregate demand, but run surpluses in boom times so that there is no net deficit over an economic cycle, i.e., only run cyclical deficits. This is derived from Keynesian economics, and gained acceptance (especially in the Anglo-Saxon world) during the period between the Great Depression in the 1930s and post-WWII in the 1950s.

That position is attacked from both sides advocates of sound finance argue that deficit spending is always bad policy, while some Post-Keynesian economists, particularly Chartalists, argue that deficit spending is necessary, and not only for fiscal stimulus.

Keynesian Effect
Following John Maynard Keynes, many economists recommend deficit spending to moderate or end a recession, especially a severe one. When the economy has high unemployment, an increase in government purchases creates a market for business output, creating income and encouraging increases in consumer spending, which creates further increases in the demand for business output.(This is the multiplier effect). This raises the real gross domestic product (GDP) and the employment of labour, and if all else is constant, lowers the unemployment rate.(The connection between demand for GDP and unemployment is called Okun's Law.)

The increased size of the market, due to government deficits, can further stimulate the economy by raising business profitability and spurring optimism, which encourages private fixed investment in factories, machines, and the like to rise. This accelerator effect stimulates demand further and encourages rising employment. Increase in government payroll has been shown to depress the economy in the long run.[citation needed]

Similarly, running a government surplus or reducing its deficit reduces consumer and business spending and raises unemployment. This can lower the inflation rate. Any use of the government deficit to steer the macro-economy is called fiscal policy.

A deficit does not simply stimulate demand. If private investment is stimulated, that increases the ability of the economy to supply output in the long run. Also, if the government's deficit is spent on such things as infrastructure, basic research, public health, and education, that can also increase potential output in the long run. Finally, the high demand that a government deficit provides may actually allow greater growth of potential supply, following Verdoorn's Law.

There is, however, a danger that deficit spending may create inflation - or encourage existing inflation to persist.(In the United States, this is seen most clearly when Vietnam-war era deficits encouraged inflation.) This is especially true at low unemployment rates (say, below 4% unemployment in the U.S.)....
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#7509 Apr 23, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
Jefferson was pretty clear in his views on a large and intrusive government:
"A wise and frugal Government,... shall leave them free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government...."
"Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
"I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive."
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."
And in talking about the effects of dependence upon others:
"Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition."
Jefferson was a product of his time, there is no way to know how he would react to the demands and problems faced by subsequent administrations. The country and problems faced by the United States of 1803 was not the country of 1853, 1883, 1933, 1963, or 2013. Whether Jefferson would stand firm in his beliefs when facing new challenges is purely conjecture.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#7510 Apr 23, 2013
columbus native wrote:
<quoted text>What is this "why is everybody picking on me" Don't play the role of a martyr just answer my questions without resorting to some shallow statement TROLL. See you can't explain romney and give some intelligent defining answers to why he should be president. Come on now we are all waiting! You republicans are just pissed we all had to rebuke him from the Whitehouse. By the way the Stock Market has hit record highs, Obama is drawing down troops in Afganistan, cutting a massive bloated defence down to a right size and I could go on and on. All this will bring the deficits down.
You are a TROLL. You showed your complete ignorance by stating that you were leaving this forum because we were all too dumb for you. Well, HERE YOU ARE! lol You are such a tool. You don't deserve any serious consideration.
What does Romney have to do with ANYTHING? Any statments you make in regards to the type of president he would have been is simply speculation. You have no IDEA the kind of president he would have been. But, one thing is for SURE. YOU voted TWICE for an individual who won't even condemn the members of al Quida. He was asked his opinion of al Quida and he totally skirted the question. Never DID answer it. You think you are so intelligent when in reality you are supported and participating in systematically dismantling this country. Guess what? Democratic Senator Bachus has suddenly decided that he isn't running for reelection. Wonder why? Could it be that a couple of weeks ago he warned that instating Obamacare was going to be a TRAINWRECK? Heck! He helped craft the legislation for Obamacare. ALSO, he broke ranks with fellow democrats and didn't support more background checks for those purchasing guns. The Obama Mean Machine kicked in and now Bachus is OUT after this term. You ignorant liberals are too stupid to see what you are going. Move on, TROLL.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#7511 Apr 23, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Jefferson was a product of his time, there is no way to know how he would react to the demands and problems faced by subsequent administrations. The country and problems faced by the United States of 1803 was not the country of 1853, 1883, 1933, 1963, or 2013. Whether Jefferson would stand firm in his beliefs when facing new challenges is purely conjecture.
Bet if his words supported YOUR current agenda, you would be praising his intellectual prowess. "Jefferson was a product of his time". Gotta love it. The liberal mantra, "When all else fails, resort to "time".

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#7512 Apr 23, 2013
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a TROLL. You showed your complete ignorance by stating that you were leaving this forum because we were all too dumb for you. Well, HERE YOU ARE! lol You are such a tool. You don't deserve any serious consideration.
What does Romney have to do with ANYTHING? Any statments you make in regards to the type of president he would have been is simply speculation. You have no IDEA the kind of president he would have been. But, one thing is for SURE. YOU voted TWICE for an individual who won't even condemn the members of al Quida. He was asked his opinion of al Quida and he totally skirted the question. Never DID answer it. You think you are so intelligent when in reality you are supported and participating in systematically dismantling this country. Guess what? Democratic Senator Bachus has suddenly decided that he isn't running for reelection. Wonder why? Could it be that a couple of weeks ago he warned that instating Obamacare was going to be a TRAINWRECK? Heck! He helped craft the legislation for Obamacare. ALSO, he broke ranks with fellow democrats and didn't support more background checks for those purchasing guns. The Obama Mean Machine kicked in and now Bachus is OUT after this term. You ignorant liberals are too stupid to see what you are going. Move on, TROLL.
I should have said, "jihadas" rather than al Qaeda.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#7513 Apr 23, 2013
Press Release FAA Statement
April 23, 2013
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_s...

As a result of employee furloughs due to sequestration, the FAA is implementing traffic management initiatives at airports and facilities around the country. Travelers can expect to see a wide range of delays that will change throughout the day depending on staffing and weather-related issues. For example, the FAA is experiencing staffing challenges at the New York and Los Angeles En Route Centers and at the Dallas-Ft. Worth and Las Vegas TRACONs. Controllers will space planes farther apart so they can manage traffic with current staff, which will lead to delays at airports including DFW, Las Vegas and LAX. The FAA also expects delays at Newark and LaGuardia because of weather and winds.

The FAA will continue to work with the airlines throughout the day to try and minimize delays for travelers. We encourage all travelers to check their flight status and also to visit fly.faa.gov for the latest airport delay information.

Yesterday more than 1,200 delays in the system were attributable to staffing reductions resulting from the furlough. There were more than 1,400 additional delays as a result of weather and other factors.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#7514 Apr 23, 2013
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
Bet if his words supported YOUR current agenda, you would be praising his intellectual prowess. "Jefferson was a product of his time". Gotta love it. The liberal mantra, "When all else fails, resort to "time".
Go back a few pages and you will see that I did quote Jefferson in support of a position, but that does not detract from the post you reference. The world of 1803 did not have to deal with the problems and demands of subsequent administrations, perhaps you could enlighten us on how Jeffersonian limited government, self-reliance, and the independence of the states would fare against industrial pollution that crosses state lines.
Oh my

Blairsville, GA

#7515 Apr 23, 2013
Aggie23 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/blairsville-g...
Jefferson was pretty clear in his views on a large and intrusive government:
You do realize that both large and intrusive are completely subjective terms.

Is the government large and intrusive that regulates food processing procedures, or industrial pollution, or work place safety. Perhaps labor relations need to swing back to management whose prime concern is making a profit.

pure nuts

Hiawassee, GA

#7516 Apr 23, 2013
Synergy wrote:
<quoted text>
If a conservative even had a HINT of this crap in his background, you libs would be going insane. It's that old liberal double standard. With Obama's very questionalbe past, if he had been white, he wouldn't have even been ASKED to speak at the DNC much less gotten the nomination later. You know it and so does everyone else. He has been given a blanket pass because he is black. No other reason. Social experiement.
Not a conservative or lib, but I can smell a load of crap a mile away. Will NEVER understand why and how anyone with an ounce of sense could waste their time believing such nonsense. A pass are you kidding? If FNC and the rest of the idiot fringe of the Republican Party had any proof of the nonsense they have claimed Obama would be gone years ago, you are a nut.
big deal

Hiawassee, GA

#7517 Apr 23, 2013
Oh my wrote:
Press Release FAA Statement
April 23, 2013
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_s...
As a result of employee furloughs due to sequestration, the FAA is implementing traffic management initiatives at airports and facilities around the country. Travelers can expect to see a wide range of delays that will change throughout the day depending on staffing and weather-related issues. For example, the FAA is experiencing staffing challenges at the New York and Los Angeles En Route Centers and at the Dallas-Ft. Worth and Las Vegas TRACONs. Controllers will space planes farther apart so they can manage traffic with current staff, which will lead to delays at airports including DFW, Las Vegas and LAX. The FAA also expects delays at Newark and LaGuardia because of weather and winds.
The FAA will continue to work with the airlines throughout the day to try and minimize delays for travelers. We encourage all travelers to check their flight status and also to visit fly.faa.gov for the latest airport delay information.
Yesterday more than 1,200 delays in the system were attributable to staffing reductions resulting from the furlough. There were more than 1,400 additional delays as a result of weather and other factors.
Its a little funny to me, as soon as budget cuts hit the people who can afford to fly,today thats upper middle class and above its a big issue. When its pregnant women, poor Americans and children who should be getting a first class education who have funding cut, not such a big deal.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#7518 Apr 23, 2013
pure nuts wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a conservative or lib, but I can smell a load of crap a mile away. Will NEVER understand why and how anyone with an ounce of sense could waste their time believing such nonsense. A pass are you kidding? If FNC and the rest of the idiot fringe of the Republican Party had any proof of the nonsense they have claimed Obama would be gone years ago, you are a nut.
lol He has gotten plenty of passes. For whatever reasons, you just blow them off. I DO believe he was born in Hawaii. He has simply been too clandestine in regard to his past. I think that's been by design.
If you defend what he has done as president, you are not just a liberal, but an EXTREME liberal. If I'm a nut, you are a fool. I had rather be a nut.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#7519 Apr 23, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
Jefferson was a product of his time, there is no way to know how he would react to the demands and problems faced by subsequent administrations. The country and problems faced by the United States of 1803 was not the country of 1853, 1883, 1933, 1963, or 2013. Whether Jefferson would stand firm in his beliefs when facing new challenges is purely conjecture.
Those quotes reflected the positions he developed and that were apparently affirmed throughout his lifetime. They are based not on the changing "demands and problems faced by" administrations, but rather by an understanding of the unchanging weaknesses in his fellow man. He understood that those who achieve power in office can be corrupted by the power they hold. And not necessarily in terms of "financial corruption", but more importantly in terms of the almost irresistible urge to believe that "we know better than the people who elect us what is best for them." The intent was that those elected would reflect the views and desires of the people who elected them, who were to be considered the REAL holders of power by their ability to elect those who would represent them. What he dreaded and what we have seen is greater and greater central control that intrudes increasingly into the private lives of the citizens of this country and that are currently putting a stranglehold on small businesses. Those in national office are now far less worried about the constituency that elected them in the first place than they are worried about the "special interests" that will make far greater contributions to their reelection campaigns. Consequently, the voice of the people is being heard less and less.

( He was a great believer in "rotation" in office, what we would call term limits, and actually recommended it for the national offices as well as for his own Virginia. He hoped that his (and Washington's) example would be followed in not seeking a third term as President- and it was until FDR. I absolutely believe that term limits are vital to "We the People" regaining control of our government. The argument that we have term limits in effect in the form of our elections is to deny the power that incumbency gives. And I think we can all see the "corruption" evident in those who make national office their "career" - which was NEVER the intent of our Founders. How many go to Washington with modest means and leave multi-millionaires.)

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#7520 Apr 23, 2013
Oh my wrote:
Press Release FAA Statement
April 23, 2013
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_s...
As a result of employee furloughs due to sequestration, the FAA is implementing traffic management initiatives at airports and facilities around the country. Travelers can expect to see a wide range of delays that will change throughout the day depending on staffing and weather-related issues. For example, the FAA is experiencing staffing challenges at the New York and Los Angeles En Route Centers and at the Dallas-Ft. Worth and Las Vegas TRACONs. Controllers will space planes farther apart so they can manage traffic with current staff, which will lead to delays at airports including DFW, Las Vegas and LAX. The FAA also expects delays at Newark and LaGuardia because of weather and winds.
The FAA will continue to work with the airlines throughout the day to try and minimize delays for travelers. We encourage all travelers to check their flight status and also to visit fly.faa.gov for the latest airport delay information.
Yesterday more than 1,200 delays in the system were attributable to staffing reductions resulting from the furlough. There were more than 1,400 additional delays as a result of weather and other factors.
And there was no reason for those cuts to have hit the way they did. A Republican plan to give Obama a far greater degree of discretion was opposed from the start by the Obama White House. There were some Republicans who didn't like it because it gave TOO MUCH power to Obama to choose where the cuts were made. But Obama didn't want it because he wants it to hurt so that he can blame the Republicans for it. That is far more important than any inconveniences Joe Public may face.
formerresident

Decatur, GA

#7521 Apr 23, 2013
Jefferson stood on firm ground. We don't today. There are so many of us, that we are washing our foundation away, tossing paper through the air, trying to address our foundation, which isn't going to work well that way.

Jefferson lived where innovation was core. We live today in a world of fit into the box, or go away.

Since: Jul 12

Villa Rica, GA

#7522 Apr 23, 2013
Oh my wrote:
<quoted text>
While it may be easy to understand when we equate government spending to household spending, the reality is that they are not alike at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deficit_spending
Government deficit spending is a central point of controversy in economics, with prominent economists holding differing views.[1] The "mainstream economics" position is that deficit spending is desirable and necessary as part of countercyclical fiscal policy, but that there should not be a structural deficit: run deficits during recessions to compensate for the shortfall in aggregate demand, but run surpluses in boom times so that there is no net deficit over an economic cycle, i.e., only run cyclical deficits. This is derived from Keynesian economics, and gained acceptance (especially in the Anglo-Saxon world) during the period between the Great Depression in the 1930s and post-WWII in the 1950s.
That position is attacked from both sides advocates of sound finance argue that deficit spending is always bad policy, while some Post-Keynesian economists, particularly Chartalists, argue that deficit spending is necessary, and not only for fiscal stimulus.
Keynesian Effect
Following John Maynard Keynes, many economists recommend deficit spending to moderate or end a recession, especially a severe one. When the economy has high unemployment, an increase in government purchases creates a market for business output, creating income and encouraging increases in consumer spending, which creates further increases in the demand for business output.(This is the multiplier effect). This raises the real gross domestic product (GDP) and the employment of labour, and if all else is constant, lowers the unemployment rate.(The connection between demand for GDP and unemployment is called Okun's Law.)
The increased size of the market, due to government deficits, can further stimulate the economy by raising business profitability and spurring optimism, which encourages private fixed investment in factories, machines, and the like to rise. This accelerator effect stimulates demand further and encourages rising employment. Increase in government payroll has been shown to depress the economy in the long run.[citation needed]
Similarly, running a government surplus or reducing its deficit reduces consumer and business spending and raises unemployment. This can lower the inflation rate. Any use of the government deficit to steer the macro-economy is called fiscal policy.
A deficit does not simply stimulate demand. If private investment is stimulated, that increases the ability of the economy to supply output in the long run. Also, if the government's deficit is spent on such things as infrastructure, basic research, public health, and education, that can also increase potential output in the long run. Finally, the high demand that a government deficit provides may actually allow greater growth of potential supply, following Verdoorn's Law.
There is, however, a danger that deficit spending may create inflation - or encourage existing inflation to persist.(In the United States, this is seen most clearly when Vietnam-war era deficits encouraged inflation.) This is especially true at low unemployment rates (say, below 4% unemployment in the U.S.)....
It would be much better if you thought for yourself and spoke for yourself instead of copying and pasting everything.I could have done that but I gave you my honest assessment of what I thought. Any moron knows that there are differences between the government and economics at home.The governments is huge and uses trick economics.The main point is that you can think up all the economic terms and add all the theoretical aspects that you want and it doesn't change the fact that we are broke. Another fact is that the more money we print the less it is worth and the more inflation will grow. it all comes back to basic budget principles for a plan with no big shot intellectual ideas.
chicknbutt

Douglasville, GA

#7523 Apr 23, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>

Here's your obligations according to Jesus - His words - not mine.
You really don't have any idea what Jesus words were. Not one single one.

You MIGHT have an idea of what Mathew, Mark, Luke and Johns words were, after they had been transcribed by hand for generations by people who may or may not have had different agendas, and then translated into English from Hebrew by the Hampton Court Conference, who had their own agenda of responding to the Puritans.--- and that's just an oversimplified version of events.

For example, nobody even knows if Matthew original wrote his gospel in Hebrew or Greek. It's a long convoluted trail with many different people interjecting their own viewpoints into the lost original manuscript.

But Jesus words? We don't know precisely what they were. We have nothing that was written directly by him.
formerresident

Decatur, GA

#7524 Apr 23, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be much better if you thought for yourself and spoke for yourself instead of copying and pasting everything.I could have done that but I gave you my honest assessment of what I thought. Any moron knows that there are differences between the government and economics at home.The governments is huge and uses trick economics.The main point is that you can think up all the economic terms and add all the theoretical aspects that you want and it doesn't change the fact that we are broke. Another fact is that the more money we print the less it is worth and the more inflation will grow. it all comes back to basic budget principles for a plan with no big shot intellectual ideas.
You got it, it is paralysis of analysis. I learned it well!:) The only thing that is going to get us out of this financial debt is income, and the only way to get income is to get back to innovation, and the only way to get to innovation is to learn how to make something out of nothing, or leverage something into something greater. Our biggest stumbling block is not people, it is paper! Layers and layers and layers of paper. And press 1,2,3, the antithesis of innovation.
Our founding fathers were founding...
Informed Opinion

Alva, FL

#7525 Apr 23, 2013
Bigdave1 wrote:
<quoted text>Did you ever think about reading the New Testament and actually understanding what it says instead of just picking phrases out and editing them to suit your warped thinking? There are whole stories being told from the beginning to the end, which are meant to be taken in as something meaningful and as common sense lessons to be learned. Not to pick out parts of it here and there.
Actually was required to read the New Testament and the Koran for in college for "Comparative Religion", so yes, I have read both and been tested on them.

Got an A-, thanks.

It's always fun to see how hard Right Wingers go to pretend Jesus wasn't a card carrying, wide-eyed, "Libtard".

Here's the question:

When standing next to those Pearly Gates, and asked to explain why they fought so hard against government programs for food, medical care, and shelter for little children ?

Maybe they could explain only a bleeding heart "Libtard" would support that.

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