The truth about minimum wage

Posted in the Grundy Forum

common sense

Harrisonburg, VA

#1 Jan 29, 2014
Why cant people see what would happen if minimum wage goes to $10 per hour? Lets say I own a restaurant and I have 7 employees (2 cooks 4 waitresses and 1 cashier). all of whom work 40 hours per week. So that's $2800 per week payroll vs at $7.50 Im paying $2100. Do you know how many $4 hamburgers EXTRA I have to sell to pay this $700 diff? 175 per week plus the extras in tax I have to match. I cant sell an extra 175 in a week so guess what, I must either cut jobs or RAISE the price of hamburgers to accommodate this difference. I have no other choice. The Gov. is not going to pay this difference and neither is the power company, It all falls to the customer. And this is just an example. It goes for everything from trucking company's who have minimum wage warehouse workers (haul bills go up) and when haul bills go up whatever they are hauling goes up. example MILK, if it cost more to get it to the store it will cost more for the customer to pay for it,(its not coming out of gov pockets) and the price of fuel has to go up to cover the workers hauling it , the workers pumping it, and don't forget the cashier behind the counter at the corner mart that will be getting an extra $3 on the hour. It will make you feel like you have more money but when milk is $8 a gallon its not going to be any diff than it is now. You will not have more money in your pockets if you even have a job. WHY CANT THESE SO CALLED EDUCATED PEOPLE IN OUR US GOV. UNDERSTAND, THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM

“Gods Curse On Lazy Hillbillies”

Since: Jun 12

Dale City, VA

#2 Jan 29, 2014
If None Of {That Stuff} That You Mentioned Is The Problem....Then....{What Is} The Problem???....
so you know

Grundy, VA

#4 Jan 29, 2014
common sense wrote:
WHY CANT THESE SO CALLED EDUCATED PEOPLE IN OUR US GOV. UNDERSTAND, THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM
It's not that the educated people don't get it, they get it just fine. The fact is they just don't agree with your thinking. Some are able to look at this issue from the perspective of minimum wage workers. Others look at it from the economist point of view.

The price of goods and services keeps going up anyway and they will continue to go up in the future. Wages are not keeping pace, and millions are being forced below the poverty line.

I'm very old and have a fixed income. I'm willing to pay more for my burger if it will help a mom with a family stay off food stamps. I'll pay more for my burger if it helps a family have more for their children. Needless to say, I'm not a member of the greedy, dog-eat-dog, right-wing.

People would be making much more than what the minimum wage is today, if wages had only kept pace with inflation.

Minimum Wage Would Be $21.72 If It Kept Pace With Increases In Productivity: Study
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/mini...

6 Ways A $12 Minimum Wage Would Help The Economy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/21/12-m...

How raising the federal minimum wage would help working families and give the economy a boost
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib341-raising-...

Minimum Wage Increase Would Help Sluggish Economy, Say Experts
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/07/mini...

We've already had this minimum wage discussion in the thread "minimum wage may go up." There are a lot of good links on that thread. There are also some useful opinions if you don't care to take time to read.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/grundy-va/TG1...
Truth

Charlottesville, VA

#5 Jan 29, 2014
common sense wrote:
Why cant people see what would happen if minimum wage goes to $10 per hour? Lets say I own a restaurant and I have 7 employees (2 cooks 4 waitresses and 1 cashier). all of whom work 40 hours per week. So that's $2800 per week payroll vs at $7.50 Im paying $2100. Do you know how many $4 hamburgers EXTRA I have to sell to pay this $700 diff? 175 per week plus the extras in tax I have to match. I cant sell an extra 175 in a week so guess what, I must either cut jobs or RAISE the price of hamburgers to accommodate this difference. I have no other choice. The Gov. is not going to pay this difference and neither is the power company, It all falls to the customer. And this is just an example. It goes for everything from trucking company's who have minimum wage warehouse workers (haul bills go up) and when haul bills go up whatever they are hauling goes up. example MILK, if it cost more to get it to the store it will cost more for the customer to pay for it,(its not coming out of gov pockets) and the price of fuel has to go up to cover the workers hauling it , the workers pumping it, and don't forget the cashier behind the counter at the corner mart that will be getting an extra $3 on the hour. It will make you feel like you have more money but when milk is $8 a gallon its not going to be any diff than it is now. You will not have more money in your pockets if you even have a job. WHY CANT THESE SO CALLED EDUCATED PEOPLE IN OUR US GOV. UNDERSTAND, THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM
Not only will your labor cost go up if the minimum wage increases but the cost of your raw material will also increase. The produce company will raise the price of produce, the bread company will raise the price of bread, the grocery company will raise the cost of groceries, and your electricity, rent, phone bill, etc… will increase because their labor cost will also increase. You will need to sell about 250 more hamburgers EXTRA just to keep what you have now. The problem is there are not enough good paying jobs. A lot of jobs have been exported over-seas and they will never be coming back. Now you have congress trying to make 11 to 20 million illegals citizens. The illegals are not only working farm jobs that Americans do not want but also construction, restaurant cook jobs, pro painters, etc.., jobs Americans would take if companies are forced to stop hiring illegals. These companies hire illegals because they can pay them less and they will not complain and these companies do not have to pay taxes on these illegals so the companies make more money.
People on fixed incomes, retirement, social security, pensions, welfare, and SSI will not see the same raise so you will be getting less a month because all the prices for goods and services will be increasing.

If anyone thinks the companies like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc. will not pass the increased labor cost on to their customers are real idiots.

Raising the minimum wage will not bring anyone out of poverty and into the middle class. This is only a very short time fix until the prices of goods and services catch up. You need better paying jobs, better education, and or job training to help move to the middle class. Politicians are only trying to keep their jobs by blowing smoke up your butts. Vote out every republican and democrat in office now and let them know Americans are tired of the same old crap!

Since: Jan 14

Grundy, VA

#6 Jan 29, 2014
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only will your labor cost go up if the minimum wage increases but the cost of your raw material will also increase. The produce company will raise the price of produce, the bread company will raise the price of bread, the grocery company will raise the cost of groceries, and your electricity, rent, phone bill, etc… will increase because their labor cost will also increase. You will need to sell about 250 more hamburgers EXTRA just to keep what you have now. The problem is there are not enough good paying jobs. A lot of jobs have been exported over-seas and they will never be coming back. Now you have congress trying to make 11 to 20 million illegals citizens. The illegals are not only working farm jobs that Americans do not want but also construction, restaurant cook jobs, pro painters, etc.., jobs Americans would take if companies are forced to stop hiring illegals. These companies hire illegals because they can pay them less and they will not complain and these companies do not have to pay taxes on these illegals so the companies make more money.
People on fixed incomes, retirement, social security, pensions, welfare, and SSI will not see the same raise so you will be getting less a month because all the prices for goods and services will be increasing.
If anyone thinks the companies like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc. will not pass the increased labor cost on to their customers are real idiots.
Raising the minimum wage will not bring anyone out of poverty and into the middle class. This is only a very short time fix until the prices of goods and services catch up. You need better paying jobs, better education, and or job training to help move to the middle class. Politicians are only trying to keep their jobs by blowing smoke up your butts. Vote out every republican and democrat in office now and let them know Americans are tired of the same old crap!
If Minimum Wage kept up'(respectively) with Inflation, it would be $10ish a hour ($1-1100 after taxes on a 30-hour work week, in a Month's Time-Frame. One flaw to "Obamacare" - the reduction of hours to < 30 by Companies that DON'T wish to provide Insurance to their employees)

Minimum Wage was worth TWICE the Value, in the 1960's, as compared to today, browse the forum that "so you know" posted a Link to. VERY valuable information in the last pages of that Topic.

As a former Minimum Wage Worker (until I got my Degree's worth' Job, in recent months), I (at 7.25 and 32 Hours/Week) was making BARELY over $800/Month. That's (on average) what a Social Security-recipient Receives in Income! However, MOST SS-Recipients ALSO have FoodStamps, WIC, etc. etc. I DIDN'T.

I HAD to live at home while working AND going to College, because I couldn't afford $4-500 rent,$100 Gas, ALONG WITH College-Tuition (because my family made just enough to disqualify me for Financial-Assistance, what luck eh?).

There are roughly 60 MILLION Minimum-Wage-Workers in America. Along with Increases in Legal (and mainly Illegal) Immigrants, and our RAPIDLY-Growing-Population.... DO YOU HONESTLY Expect there to be 1 MILLION (Little less 60+M) Job-Creations' in America, to bring (via Education) Americans OUT of the WORKING POVERTY that they're experiencing TODAY?

Education opens keys, that's a popular and misleading thought/belief-pattern of THOSE OF US that were FORTUNATE TO FIND A JOB WITH OUR DEGREE(S)! However, YOU SHOW ME THAT EDUCATION INDISPUTABLY = A JOB (IN THEIR FIELD(S) OF STUDY).... I'll show you a Purple-Tailed' Dog.

Don't get me wrong, EDUCATION DOES OPEN DOORS, However in our Rapid-Population-Growth, Job-EXPORTS, and IMMIGRANT-Problems..A Masters/Doctorate can and HAS opened multiple-doors TO EMPTY-ROOMS.

Again, in respect to Inflation, the Minimum-Wage WOULD'VE BEEN $10+ ALREADY, WITHOUT significant-increases (barely,IF ANY) passed on to the Consumer (as you, and like-minded people DOCTRINATELY'-Believe.

It's a Fallacy,&WorkersSufferB/C of IT
so you know

Grundy, VA

#7 Jan 29, 2014
You know what never ceases to amaze me. Greed, the greed of those who argue against an increase in the minimum wage. I suspect these are the same individuals who say people shouldn't have their unemployment insurance extended and that people shouldn't be allowed to get food stamps.

Greedy, dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest. To he!l with everyone else.
Their argument seems to be, they're unwilling to pay a little more for their Big Mac or their trip to Walmart. They don't want to pay a little bit more and they don't want to help people out either. That's pathetic! That's GREED!

Well, I think people should make enough money to enable them to feed their families without having to depend on food stamps. I think people are looking for a hand up not a hand out. If you don't pay people a decent wage for their work then they must depend on something or someone to make ends meet. You cannot pay food, rent, clothing, electric, water, transportation, insurance, gas, tires, etc., etc. etc. on $7.25 an hour. He!l, McDonalds and Walmart advise their employees to get on public assistance at the same time they pocket and bank astronomical profits. I just don't get these greedy a** people, I just don't get it!

McDonald's helps workers get food stamps
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/23/news/companie...

How Walmart uses medicaid and foodstamps to avoid paying its workers a living wage
http://boingboing.net/2012/11/23/how-walmart-...

The way things are right now, the taxpayers are subsidizing Walmart and McDonalds to pay their employees a wage that is substandard and impossible to live on. This is not rocket science, pay a little more for your burger and Walmart trip or pay through your taxes to furnish these underpaid employees with food, shelter, and fuel assistance. In some cases daycare and transportation. Why not make these people tax payers instead of tax-money users. I know why, the answer is simply GREED! Greedy a** people who don't want to pay a few cents more for their burger and Walmart trip. Greedy a** businesses who don't want to pay a decent wage. Greedy a** politicians who fight against minimum wage because they are doing what their greedy a** contributors want them to do. GREED!

Price of Big Mac Could Rise by 68 Cents If Minimum Wage Doubles
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/07/...

The Outrageous Truth About A $12 Minimum Wage And Your Grocery Bill
http://nhlabornews.com/2013/07/the-outrageous...

I wish people weren't so dog-gone GREEDY.

Since: Jan 14

Grundy, VA

#8 Jan 30, 2014
so you know wrote:
You know what never ceases to amaze me. Greed, the greed of those who argue against an increase in the minimum wage. I suspect these are the same individuals who say people shouldn't have their unemployment insurance extended and that people shouldn't be allowed to get food stamps.
Greedy, dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest. To he!l with everyone else.
Their argument seems to be, they're unwilling to pay a little more for their Big Mac or their trip to Walmart. They don't want to pay a little bit more and they don't want to help people out either. That's pathetic! That's GREED!
Well, I think people should make enough money to enable them to feed their families without having to depend on food stamps. I think people are looking for a hand up not a hand out. If you don't pay people a decent wage for their work then they must depend on something or someone to make ends meet. You cannot pay food, rent, clothing, electric, water, transportation, insurance, gas, tires, etc., etc. etc. on $7.25 an hour. He!l, McDonalds and Walmart advise their employees to get on public assistance at the same time they pocket and bank astronomical profits. I just don't get these greedy a** people, I just don't get it!
McDonald's helps workers get food stamps
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/23/news/companie...
How Walmart uses medicaid and foodstamps to avoid paying its workers a living wage
http://boingboing.net/2012/11/23/how-walmart-...
The way things are right now, the taxpayers are subsidizing Walmart and McDonalds to pay their employees a wage that is substandard and impossible to live on. This is not rocket science, pay a little more for your burger and Walmart trip or pay through your taxes to furnish these underpaid employees with food, shelter, and fuel assistance. In some cases daycare and transportation. Why not make these people tax payers instead of tax-money users. I know why, the answer is simply GREED! Greedy a** people who don't want to pay a few cents more for their burger and Walmart trip. Greedy a** businesses who don't want to pay a decent wage. Greedy a** politicians who fight against minimum wage because they are doing what their greedy a** contributors want them to do. GREED!
Price of Big Mac Could Rise by 68 Cents If Minimum Wage Doubles
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/07/...
The Outrageous Truth About A $12 Minimum Wage And Your Grocery Bill
http://nhlabornews.com/2013/07/the-outrageous...
I wish people weren't so dog-gone GREEDY.
Couldn't agree more.
common sense

Harrisonburg, VA

#9 Jan 30, 2014
so you know wrote:
You know what never ceases to amaze me. Greed, the greed of those who argue against an increase in the minimum wage. I suspect these are the same individuals who say people shouldn't have their unemployment insurance extended and that people shouldn't be allowed to get food stamps.
Greedy, dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest. To he!l with everyone else.
Their argument seems to be, they're unwilling to pay a little more for their Big Mac or their trip to Walmart. They don't want to pay a little bit more and they don't want to help people out either. That's pathetic! That's GREED!
Well, I think people should make enough money to enable them to feed their families without having to depend on food stamps. I think people are looking for a hand up not a hand out. If you don't pay people a decent wage for their work then they must depend on something or someone to make ends meet. You cannot pay food, rent, clothing, electric, water, transportation, insurance, gas, tires, etc., etc. etc. on $7.25 an hour. He!l, McDonalds and Walmart advise their employees to get on public assistance at the same time they pocket and bank astronomical profits. I just don't get these greedy a** people, I just don't get it!
McDonald's helps workers get food stamps
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/23/news/companie...
How Walmart uses medicaid and foodstamps to avoid paying its workers a living wage
http://boingboing.net/2012/11/23/how-walmart-...
The way things are right now, the taxpayers are subsidizing Walmart and McDonalds to pay their employees a wage that is substandard and impossible to live on. This is not rocket science, pay a little more for your burger and Walmart trip or pay through your taxes to furnish these underpaid employees with food, shelter, and fuel assistance. In some cases daycare and transportation. Why not make these people tax payers instead of tax-money users. I know why, the answer is simply GREED! Greedy a** people who don't want to pay a few cents more for their burger and Walmart trip. Greedy a** businesses who don't want to pay a decent wage. Greedy a** politicians who fight against minimum wage because they are doing what their greedy a** contributors want them to do. GREED!
Price of Big Mac Could Rise by 68 Cents If Minimum Wage Doubles
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/07/...
The Outrageous Truth About A $12 Minimum Wage And Your Grocery Bill
http://nhlabornews.com/2013/07/the-outrageous...
I wish people weren't so dog-gone GREEDY.
What ceases to amaze me is people who don't read the OP's post, If you did you would know it was not anything about dog eat dog and greed, Its about how if minimum wage goes up so does everything YOU and everyone else spends money on.
so you know

Grundy, VA

#10 Jan 30, 2014
common sense wrote:
<quoted text>
What ceases to amaze me is people who don't read the OP's post, If you did you would know it was not anything about dog eat dog and greed, Its about how if minimum wage goes up so does everything YOU and everyone else spends money on.
I'll assume for the moment that you called yourself by the moniker "common sense" because you either think you have some common sense or you think it is common sense to leave wages at rock bottom. If you would answer a question or two for me, it would make for a more interesting debate. I don't need really personal information or information that would help someone to identify you.

1. Is the reason for your concern because you are a business owner or someone who pays wages to employees at the minimum wage rate?

2. Are you primarily concerned about a rise in the prices of good and services? Is this because of your personal concern as a customer who uses these goods and services?

3. Are you part of the business lobby or restaurant lobby?

4. Do you believe that the minimum wage should be completely done away with and let the free market system (laissez-faire principles) take care of itself?

5. Do you consider yourself to be far right or a member of the tea party (optional- not necessary for a good debate, but helpful in understanding the mindset of your debating opponent)?

I'm sorry to say I don't know what's meant by OP's post, unless you are referring to you opinions in post #1. Please elaborate.

I'm willing to answer some general questions about myself and my philosophies on minimum wage if you do.

I have two final questions which directly relates to a persons' ability to learn and be persuaded by logic and facts.

6. Do you consider yourself an open minded person?

7. Did you read the preceding posts and follow the links to the information provided and attempt to absorb that information?

Raising the minimum wage helps working people, your neighbors, folks putting food on the table.
http://madvilletimes.com/2013/09/raising-mini...

Reasons to Raise the Minimum Wage
http://www.ehow.com/list_7397297_reasons-rais...

I look forward to a reasoned, respectful, and logical debate, but I can get just as rowdy as my opponents. I'll let you set the tone.
Interesting

Grundy, VA

#11 Jan 30, 2014
common sense wrote:
<quoted text>
What ceases to amaze me is people who don't read the OP's post, If you did you would know it was not anything about dog eat dog and greed, Its about how if minimum wage goes up so does everything YOU and everyone else spends money on.
....Right. Exactly. Just like how you completely ignored the information in "so you know"''s and my post. Your "Common Sense" is common', yes, and 'sense'(in terms of being an opinionated-fallacy). You would do well in Researching Minimum Wage History, along with the previously mentioned Factors.

Mass Society is evidently petrified by the idea of paying $14 extra Annually on their Purchases (if even that much), to bring 30-40 MILLION ADULTS OUT OF WORKING POVERTY. Ah, but this is the Appalachian Region, land of' numerous fallacies that people deliberately believe (doctrinately') as if they're Truths'.

Minimum Wage was worth DOUBLE the value, in the 60s, compared to today's Minimum Wage. Also, kept up with inflation until the more recent' decades. If MW kept up with Inflation, it would've ALREADY been Equal to the LIVABLE-Wage of $10-ish. Education only INCREASES your likelihood of getting a job (in your field(s) of study), it doesn't guarantee a Job, due to MANY Factors beyond our Control (Population, Immigration, Automation, Job Exports, Increasing Retirement Age, etc. etc. etc.)
Truth

Charlottesville, VA

#12 Jan 30, 2014
"Little Benefit to Families in Poverty The minimum wage raises the pay of many workers at the cost of some jobs. A lot of advocates for minimum wage increases consider this a good trade-off. They argue that the gains for the workers who benefit far outweigh the costs to those who lose out. For example, raising the minimum wage by 40 percent – from $7.25 an hour to $10.10 an hour – would cost roughly 8 percent of heavily affected worker groups their jobs (although losses would be larger among the most disadvantaged workers).[39] At first glance this may seem like a good deal. However, this analysis ignores the way American tax and welfare programs claw back wage gains made by low-income workers. Congress has created many overlapping means-tested benefit programs: the supplemental nutrition assistance program (SNAP, formerly called food stamps), temporary assistance for needy families (TANF), the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), child-care subsidies, housing vouchers, and Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) benefits. The government also provides extensive in-kind health care benefits: Medicaid, SCHIP, and the soon to be operating health care exchange subsidies. These benefits phase out at different rates as income rises. Earning an additional dollar of income reduces SNAP benefits by 24 cents. Workers in the EITC phase-out range lose 21 cents for each additional dollar they earn. Housing vouchers phase out at a 30 percent rate. Low-income workers must also pay payroll (15 percent) and income taxes (10-15 percent) on each additional dollar of income. Medicaid operates with a cliff: when workers’ incomes exceed a certain threshold, they lose all benefits.
Congress did not coordinate these benefit phase-outs across programs. Consequently low-income workers can face very high effective tax rates as they lose benefits from multiple programs. Consider workers both losing SNAP benefits and landing in the EITC phase out range. For each additional dollar they earn they pay 15 cents in additional payroll taxes, 15 cents in income taxes, an average of 5 cents in state income taxes, as well as losing 21 cents of their EITC benefit and forgoing 24 cents of SNAP benefits – an effective marginal tax rate of 80 percent. Each extra dollar earned increases their net income by only 20 cents. Not even millionaires pay such high tax rates. The Congressional Budget Office studied this issue in a report released last year.[40] It found that a single parent with one child earning between $15,000 to $25,000 experiences almost no financial benefit from working additional hours or getting a raise.[41] What they gain in market income they lose in reduced benefits, leaving them no better off. The academic literature concludes that low-income families financially benefit when the head of the household enters the labor force and takes a job that pays near the poverty level. However, additional hours of work – or higher wages – beyond that generally produce little additional net benefit until earnings exceed 150 to 200 percent of the poverty level.[42] Unfortunately, minimum-wage workers with incomes below the poverty level fall into this earnings dead zone. A childless adult working full time for the minimum wage earns $15,080 a year, above the poverty level for one person ($11,490). That adult (or a teenager) qualifies for relatively few federal benefits. But a single parent working the same job would fall below the poverty level for either one ($15,510) or two ($19,530) children. That single parent qualifies for many means-tested federal benefits. If the federal minimum wage rose to $10.10 an hour ($21,008 a year for a full-time job) benefit reductions would claw back the majority of his or her raise."
Truth

Charlottesville, VA

#13 Jan 30, 2014
Most people think they are right and do not research for themselves facts. Parties, democrat and republican only want votes to stay in office. They do not want to help the poor and or working poor. They are in power because the rich pay for their campaigns and they will not do anything to help the poor unless the rich see some kind of advantage.

Look here about minimum wage:
http://www.heritage.org/research/testimony/20...
“American Samoa
The recent experience of American Samoa dramatically illustrates how wage increases reduce employment. The tiny Pacific island chain has been an American territory for over a century. However, American Samoans have a largely separate economy and considerably lower incomes than residents of the continental United States: the average Samoan worker made $12,000 in 2009.[17] The tuna canning industry makes up a significant portion of their private sector.
Until recently American Samoa had a different minimum wage schedule than the continental United States. A committee within the Department of Labor set Samoan wage minimums according to local economic conditions. In January 2007 the minimum wage in the canning industry stood at $3.26 an hour. Unfortunately for American Samoa, Congress applied the 2007 federal minimum wage increase to the territory. The legislation aligned the Samoan minimum wage with the U.S. rate of $7.25 an hour in 50 cent annual increments.[18]
Almost every hourly worker in the tuna canning industry makes less than $7.25 an hour.[19] At that level the minimum wage would cover 80 percent of the islands’ hourly workers.[20] This would be the economic equivalent of raising the minimum wage to $20.00 an hour in the continental U.S.[21]
By May 2009 the third scheduled minimum wage increase in Samoa took effect, rising to $4.76 an hour and covering 69 percent of canning workers. This did not increase purchasing power, stimulate demand, and raise living standards, as many minimum wage proponents theorize. Instead StarKist—one of the two canneries then located in Samoa—laid off workers, cut hours and benefits, and froze hiring.[22] The other cannery—Chicken of the Sea—shut down entirely in September 2009.[23]
The Government Accountability Office reports that between 2006 and 2009 overall employment in American Samoa fell 14 percent and inflation-adjusted wages fell 11 percent. Employment in the tuna canning industry fell 55 percent.[24] The GAO attributed much of these economic losses to the minimum wage hike.
The Democratic Governor of American Samoa, Togiola Tulafona, harshly criticized this GAO report for understating the damage done by the minimum wage hike. Testifying before Congress Gov. Tulafona objected that “this GAO report does not adequately, succinctly or clearly convey the magnitude of the worsening economic disaster in American Samoa that has resulted primarily from the imposition of the 2007 US minimum wage mandate.”[25] Gov. Tulafona pointed out that American Samoa’s unemployment rate jumped from 5 percent before the last minimum wage hike to over 35 percent in 2009.[26] He begged Congress to stop increasing the islands’ minimum wage:
“We are watching our economy burn down. We know what to do to stop it. We need to bring the aggressive wage costs decreed by the Federal Government under control. But we are ordered not to interfere …Our job market is being torched. Our businesses are being depressed. Our hope for growth has been driven away…Our question is this: How much does our government expect us to suffer, until we have to stand up for our survival?”[27]
Samoan employers responded to higher labor costs the way economic theory predicts: by hiring fewer workers. Congress hurt the very workers it intended to help. Fortunately, Congress heeded the Governor’s plea and suspended the future scheduled minimum wage increases.“
Truth

Charlottesville, VA

#14 Jan 30, 2014
Little Benefit to Families in Poverty

The minimum wage raises the pay of many workers at the cost of some jobs. A lot of advocates for minimum wage increases consider this a good trade-off. They argue that the gains for the workers who benefit far outweigh the costs to those who lose out. For example, raising the minimum wage by 40 percent – from $7.25 an hour to $10.10 an hour – would cost roughly 8 percent of heavily affected worker groups their jobs (although losses would be larger among the most disadvantaged workers).[39] At first glance this may seem like a good deal.

However, this analysis ignores the way American tax and welfare programs claw back wage gains made by low-income workers. Congress has created many overlapping means-tested benefit programs: the supplemental nutrition assistance program (SNAP, formerly called food stamps), temporary assistance for needy families (TANF), the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), child-care subsidies, housing vouchers, and Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) benefits. The government also provides extensive in-kind health care benefits: Medicaid, SCHIP, and the soon to be operating health care exchange subsidies.

These benefits phase out at different rates as income rises. Earning an additional dollar of income reduces SNAP benefits by 24 cents. Workers in the EITC phase-out range lose 21 cents for each additional dollar they earn. Housing vouchers phase out at a 30 percent rate. Low-income workers must also pay payroll (15 percent) and income taxes (10-15 percent) on each additional dollar of income. Medicaid operates with a cliff: when workers’ incomes exceed a certain threshold, they lose all benefits.

Congress did not coordinate these benefit phase-outs across programs. Consequently low-income workers can face very high effective tax rates as they lose benefits from multiple programs. Consider workers both losing SNAP benefits and landing in the EITC phase out range. For each additional dollar they earn they pay 15 cents in additional payroll taxes, 15 cents in income taxes, an average of 5 cents in state income taxes, as well as losing 21 cents of their EITC benefit and forgoing 24 cents of SNAP benefits – an effective marginal tax rate of 80 percent. Each extra dollar earned increases their net income by only 20 cents. Not even millionaires pay such high tax rates.

The Congressional Budget Office studied this issue in a report released last year.[40] It found that a single parent with one child earning between $15,000 to $25,000 experiences almost no financial benefit from working additional hours or getting a raise.[41] What they gain in market income they lose in reduced benefits, leaving them no better off.

The academic literature concludes that low-income families financially benefit when the head of the household enters the labor force and takes a job that pays near the poverty level. However, additional hours of work – or higher wages – beyond that generally produce little additional net benefit until earnings exceed 150 to 200 percent of the poverty level.[42]

Unfortunately, minimum-wage workers with incomes below the poverty level fall into this earnings dead zone. A childless adult working full time for the minimum wage earns $15,080 a year, above the poverty level for one person ($11,490). That adult (or a teenager) qualifies for relatively few federal benefits. But a single parent working the same job would fall below the poverty level for either one ($15,510) or two ($19,530) children. That single parent qualifies for many means-tested federal benefits. If the federal minimum wage rose to $10.10 an hour ($21,008 a year for a full-time job) benefit reductions would claw back the majority of his or her raise.
so you know

Grundy, VA

#15 Jan 30, 2014
Truth wrote:
Look here about minimum wage:
http://www.heritage.org/research/testimony/20...
Now why would I take the word of anything that came from a far-right-wing think tank like The Heritage Foundation? Huh?

Jim DeMint and Heritage Foundation Awash in Koch Brother Money
http://www.polluterwatch.com/blog/jim-demint-...

Why would I pay attention to any copy and paste job that was sourced from anyplace that was bankrolled by the low-life Koch brothers when I see them as part of the greatest threat to citizens of the United States in my lifetime.

The Koch Brothers
What You Need to Know About the Financiers
of the Radical Right
"the Koch brothers are key players in bankrolling right-wing political
action groups, think tanks, and individual politicians, using this array of political
power to advance their ideological agenda of limited government and less regulation.
Chances are they are part of any recent right-wing attack you have seen lately."<from link below>
http://www.americanprogressaction.org/wp-cont...

Anyone interested in learning about the Koch brothers can go to the topix thread below and follow "Patriot" to the real "truth." The "Truth" who posted these last 3 posts is obviously not concerned with the actual facts.

Kochtopus Tea Party
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/grundy-va/TAK...

I'm sorry to inform you "Truth" but I do my own research and I certainly don't take the word of any right-wing-think-tank for my information. I guess according to your sources we need to raise the minimum wage to around $18.00-$20.00 an hour for it to do any good. I'm all for that. Let's do it, what do you say?

Tell me "Truth" are you a regular right-wing-nutjob or a Tea Party Nazi Wantabee? Huh?

Take a look at some information from some actual economists, not someone collecting money from some ignorant billionaires to publish, say, and think what they're told to!

Seven Nobel Economists Endorse a $10.10 Minimum Wage
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-...

75 Experts Have the Definitive Answer On the Minimum Wage, and Conservatives Won't Like It
http://www.policymic.com/articles/79139/75-ex...

Trickle-up economics
http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/2...

Reagan's Trickle-down-theory of economics has been an absolute failure, I think it's time we try Trickle-up economics.
so you know

Grundy, VA

#17 Jan 31, 2014
I'm older than the hills and a large portion of my income comes from fixed sources. Some would argue that I should be concerned about the cost of goods and services going up. I'm not concerned in the least. Sure prices may go up a little, but I believe they'll go up anyway. If I become a greedy aisehole, like others, it will not keep prices from rising.

I can hypothetically think of a couple of reasons why I should be against a raise in the minimum wage, but I can think of hundreds why I should be for an increase in the minimum wage.

Hundreds of Economists Say Raise the Minimum Wage
"Over 650 economists, including 5 Nobel prize winners and 6 past presidents of the American Economic Association, believe that increasing federal and state minimum wages, with annual cost-of-living adjustments for inflation,“can significantly improve the lives of low-income workers and their families, without the adverse effects that critics have claimed.” <from the link below>
http://www.epi.org/publication/minwagestmt200...

Raising the minimum wage will grow our economy. I may not need the economy to grow and prosper, but my kids and grandkids sure do. I'll have great grandchildren to take into consideration if I live long enough to see my grandkids finish their college education.

Economist says minimum wage hike will grow economy
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101230327

The Most Rigorous Research Shows Minimum Wage Increases Do Not Reduce Employment
http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/job-...

How raising the federal minimum wage would help working families and give the economy a boost
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib341-raising-...

Minimum Wage Increase Would Help Sluggish Economy, Say Experts
"Michael Reich, an economics professor and director of the Institute for Research on Labor and Employment at the University of California, Berkeley, said his research has shown that businesses don't suffer from having to dish out slightly higher wages to their lowest-paid employees."<from link below>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/07/mini...

As you can see, I know how to copy and paste too. I can also formulate my own arguments. There are many reasons to increase the minimum wage and only one reason not to. GREED!
so you know

Grundy, VA

#18 Jan 31, 2014
(continuation)

I despise the Koch brothers and all they stand for. I stand for average Americans, not the rich, the greedy, or the stupid. There are plenty of right wing organizations funded by the Koch brothers. Your Heritage Foundation is one of them.

The Koch Brothers and ObamaCare: and Other Koch Brothers Facts
"The Kochs have helped to fund the Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation, FreedomWorks, and Americans for Prosperity"<link below>
http://obamacarefacts.com/koch-brothers-facts ...

These bastard Koch brothers, and Ted Cruz, aided by your stupid Heritage Foundation shut down the government, costing us billions of dollars.

How the Koch Brothers Orchestrated the Shutdown
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/how ...

These Koch brothers are a clear and present danger to the American way of life!

Koch Brothers Exposed
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...

The Tea Party and the Billionaires - How the Koch Brothers Manipulate
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...

Uncloaking the Koch Brothers, Tea Party
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...

CNN: Koch Brothers Fund the Tea Party
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...

Caught on tape: Koch Bros. funding Tea Party Astroturfers
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...

Rachel Maddow: Tea Party Fascist thugs (Koch bros & RecessRally
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...

Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...

The Koch brothers and many others want to keep people poor, uneducated, and ignorant. Well their day is coming to an end. Better wake up and smell the coffee, because the rest of America is.

Bernie Sanders Goes off on Charles Koch
http://www.youtube.com/watch ...

Now unless you're really slow, you might have noticed I don't like the Koch brothers and what they are trying to do to my country. If you keep copying and pasting from these far-right-wing sites, I don't think you and I will get along very well either. I just simply don't agree with the greedy, dog-eat-dog, survival-of-the- fittest, my-way-or-the-highway, trickle-down economic theories, and furthermore I never will.

I've seen destitute and suffering people in my lifetime and it's just not my cup of tea! I don't drink the tea of the Tea Party no matter how they try to disguise it!
so you know

Grundy, VA

#19 Jan 31, 2014
---Truth---

Tell me, other than that one paragraph at the top of the second post, is any of this your words. You know, you can just copy and paste the links, we know how to click on them. You don't have to post the whole article. You should also give credit to your sources. If you don't, it's plagiarism.

I'll show you how.

The Costs to Fast-Food Restaurants of a Minimum Wage Increase to $10.50 per Hour
"We presented these findings in a petition supporting H.R. 1346 signed by over 100 professional economists.2 In particular, we described how raising the minimum to $10.50 would impose a cost increase to the average fast-food restaurant equal to 2.7 percent of their sales revenue. In other words, assuming all else equal, the aver-age fast-food restaurant could fully cover the costs of the $10.50 minimum wage by raising their prices 2.7 percent. This is equivalent to increasing the price of a $4.50 Big Mac to $4.60. This illustration caught the attention of writers at the Daily Beast, who then used our estimates to create its “McPoverty Calculator,”<from the link below>

http://www.peri.umass.edu/fileadmin/pdf/resea...

Minimum Wage Would Be $21.72 If It Kept Pace With Increases In Productivity: Study
"The minimum wage should have reached $21.72 an hour in 2012 if it kept up with increases in worker productivity, according to a March study by the Center for Economic and Policy Research. While advancements in technology have increased the amount of goods and services that can be produced in a set amount of time, wages have remained relatively flat, the study points out."<from the link below>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/mini...

Did you get that, you just say <from the link below>, then post the link, that way you're not stealing other people's work and claiming it for your own. You don't want to be like Rand Paul do you?

Here's some more links for those who don't like reading. Please people , watch these youtube videos, I guarantee you will learn something.

Minimum Wage Hike Would Boost Economy By Billions


Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn't Minimum Wage $22?
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Obama At Costco Promotes Higher Minimum Wage
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

State of the Union 2014 Address: Obama on Raising the Minimum
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

All you have to do is watch the Presidents SOTU address and pay attention to who clapping and who's not, and you can easily figure out who is for the working man and who's against the working man!

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