Live blog, videos: Portland police su...

Live blog, videos: Portland police suspend officer who shot girl, 12, with bean bag

There are 34 comments on the The Oregonian story from Nov 21, 2009, titled Live blog, videos: Portland police suspend officer who shot girl, 12, with bean bag. In it, The Oregonian reports that:

Officer Humphreys has been placed on administrative leave and I have directed the Internal Affairs Division to conduct an immediate and full investigation into whether the use of force was justified under the totality of circumstances and whether the application of the beanbag at close range was consistent with the Bureau's training," 4:16 p.m.: ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Oregonian.

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pdxlyn mom to 5

Vancouver, WA

#1 Nov 21, 2009
I am appalled how so many people are overreacting. Those officers were ASSAULTED. If that was my child, I would be ashamed and in shock by their behavior and tell them too bad! You fight the police who are there to protect all of us, you will be punished. If we lose faith in those who protect us, what's next? Quit complaining about the child's age. That is not a factor as she knew right from wrong and had a choice. If she was over 18 no one would complain a bit. Where do we draw the line? Society has gone to hell and we are all allowing it by crying outrage at this one officer. I say bye bye Rosie and Salzmann!! This hype just makes me mad.

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#2 Nov 22, 2009
pdxlyn mom to 5 wrote:
I am appalled how so many people are overreacting. Those officers were ASSAULTED. If that was my child, I would be ashamed and in shock by their behavior and tell them too bad! You fight the police who are there to protect all of us, you will be punished. If we lose faith in those who protect us, what's next? Quit complaining about the child's age. That is not a factor as she knew right from wrong and had a choice. If she was over 18 no one would complain a bit. Where do we draw the line? Society has gone to hell and we are all allowing it by crying outrage at this one officer. I say bye bye Rosie and Salzmann!! This hype just makes me mad.
Bean-bagging a 12 year old child by an adult male police officer is excessive abuse PERIOD! These officers are 2 grown men for gods sakes!!!! If they can't subdue a 12 year old screaming kicking child, then they aren't in ANY condition to take on an adult male strung out on drugs screaming and kicking in your door to rob or attack you. Don't try and victimize the officers, they are a joke to say the least and in case you weren't paying any kind of attention to what Rosie Sizer said she was not happy about it was that one officer bean-bagged the 12 year old child AFTER they had her on the ground! If you look at the video close enough it also looks like the other officer punched her in the face while she was on the ground as well. Rosie Sizer has done nothing wrong in requesting this investigation. I just hope she gets rid of rogue cops like these two who beat up and kill the mentally ill and children!
johanson

Salem, OR

#3 Dec 3, 2009
Librahoppa wrote:
<quoted text>
Bean-bagging a 12 year old child by an adult male police officer is excessive abuse PERIOD! These officers are 2 grown men for gods sakes!!!! If they can't subdue a 12 year old screaming kicking child, then they aren't in ANY condition to take on an adult male strung out on drugs screaming and kicking in your door to rob or attack you. Don't try and victimize the officers, they are a joke to say the least and in case you weren't paying any kind of attention to what Rosie Sizer said she was not happy about it was that one officer bean-bagged the 12 year old child AFTER they had her on the ground! If you look at the video close enough it also looks like the other officer punched her in the face while she was on the ground as well. Rosie Sizer has done nothing wrong in requesting this investigation. I just hope she gets rid of rogue cops like these two who beat up and kill the mentally ill and children!
Getting tired of you liberals excusing this abhorrent behavior from our citizens. It doesn't matter how the police handled this issue, you anti - police creeps wold have been outraged anyway. If the other officer had jumped on top and started wrestling the girl to gain compliance, you would be whining about that too.

What the police officer did was totally appropriate; the behavior that is outrageous is the actions of the criminal and the, Chief Sizer and Commissioner Saltzman. The police officers have a tough enough job without worrying about whether they have the support from their superiors.

BTW, I have watched the video many times and your claim that the officer punches the criminal is a lie.
Wilma

Portland, OR

#4 Dec 3, 2009
Librahoppa wrote:
<quoted text>
Bean-bagging a 12 year old child by an adult male police officer is excessive abuse PERIOD! These officers are 2 grown men for gods sakes!!!! If they can't subdue a 12 year old screaming kicking child, then they aren't in ANY condition to take on an adult male strung out on drugs screaming and kicking in your door to rob or attack you. Don't try and victimize the officers, they are a joke to say the least and in case you weren't paying any kind of attention to what Rosie Sizer said she was not happy about it was that one officer bean-bagged the 12 year old child AFTER they had her on the ground! If you look at the video close enough it also looks like the other officer punched her in the face while she was on the ground as well. Rosie Sizer has done nothing wrong in requesting this investigation. I just hope she gets rid of rogue cops like these two who beat up and kill the mentally ill and children!
Yeah! What you said.

Should have tasered her. Or got out the billyclubs or given her some bootleather

Why do you think the police need to put up with abusive behavior?

I say investigate, learn, teach and then carry on. Portland is a low crime city, you want touchy-feely policing then we will have a different city.

Beanbag now so we don't have to shoot tomorrow.

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#5 Dec 6, 2009
johanson wrote:
<quoted text>
Getting tired of you liberals excusing this abhorrent behavior from our citizens. It doesn't matter how the police handled this issue, you anti - police creeps wold have been outraged anyway. If the other officer had jumped on top and started wrestling the girl to gain compliance, you would be whining about that too.
What the police officer did was totally appropriate; the behavior that is outrageous is the actions of the criminal and the, Chief Sizer and Commissioner Saltzman. The police officers have a tough enough job without worrying about whether they have the support from their superiors.
BTW, I have watched the video many times and your claim that the officer punches the criminal is a lie.
Okay....first, I am far from being a liberal, I am a realist though
Second, I am appropriately disappointed by these 2 police officers behavior. A 12 year old is a child. They are not only 2 grown men, but they are suppose to be trained to handle situations like this one. They demonstrated no such training! They should have been able to subdue a 12 year old without the physical violence and yet they clearly demonstrated on video that they can't! They need more training.
Finally, you need to stop refering to this child as a criminal in this particular situation. She was caught the previous month stealing true, but in this situation she did not commit a crime, that I was aware of. These two grown male police officers claimed to zero in where a bunch of gang members were gathered and all they were able to do is catch a 12 year old child who was there with the gang members, but not one herself. Why didn't they catch a known gang member? Why is it that they ONLY individual they stopped to question was a 12 year old child? It seems to me these 2 cops were obviously not interested in questioning any known gang member there, they chose an easier target. I can't speak for your twisted view of this situation, but it does not make me feel safe knowing cops like this are out there making a scene like this and using pathetic excuses like the ones they made to get into this situation to begin with. They should feel ashamed of themselves. I feel disgusted! Bean-bagging a 12 year old does not make me feel safe, sorry you disagree.

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#6 Dec 6, 2009
Wilma wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah! What you said.
Should have tasered her. Or got out the billyclubs or given her some bootleather
Why do you think the police need to put up with abusive behavior?
I say investigate, learn, teach and then carry on. Portland is a low crime city, you want touchy-feely policing then we will have a different city.
Beanbag now so we don't have to shoot tomorrow.
I don't believe that Police Officers should put up with abusive behavior, but I do believe they are required to do a job that sometimes puts them in abusive situations. They are suppose to be trained to handle such situations and in this case they failed. They should have been able to subdue a 12 year old child without using excessive force and if a 12 year old girl is too much for them physically, they should resign and let a more qualified individual take their place out on patrol!
Bean-bagging a child today is not a full proof solution that will prevent a cop or anyone else for that matter from shooting tomorrow. Your not using sound logic. I don't hate cops, I just have a non-favorable view of combinations such as a lower IQ person carrying a gun and following bad policies set forth by angry, burn't out people who do not care how to deal with situations like this one. It always adds up to public disappointment and frustration. Excessive force brings out feelings of mistrust and anxiety from the public and when a 12 year old becomes a target of that excessive force, feelings of outrage are bound to express themselves. 2 grown men = more strength than one 12 year old girl.
2 grown men bean-bagging a 12 year old girl doesn't add up to self control and trained grown police officers. It looks like an abusive situation alright, but from the 2 grown males that are suppose to be trained to handle her, but didn't. They are an embarassment. They don't make me feel safe or make me think they are capable of handling these kinds of situations. I don't have faith they will be able to make sound judgments in the future either.
johanson

Salem, OR

#7 Dec 6, 2009
Librahoppa wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay....first, I am far from being a liberal, I am a realist though
Second, I am appropriately disappointed by these 2 police officers behavior. A 12 year old is a child. They are not only 2 grown men, but they are suppose to be trained to handle situations like this one. They demonstrated no such training! They should have been able to subdue a 12 year old without the physical violence and yet they clearly demonstrated on video that they can't! They need more training.
Finally, you need to stop refering to this child as a criminal in this particular situation. She was caught the previous month stealing true, but in this situation she did not commit a crime, that I was aware of. These two grown male police officers claimed to zero in where a bunch of gang members were gathered and all they were able to do is catch a 12 year old child who was there with the gang members, but not one herself. Why didn't they catch a known gang member? Why is it that they ONLY individual they stopped to question was a 12 year old child? It seems to me these 2 cops were obviously not interested in questioning any known gang member there, they chose an easier target. I can't speak for your twisted view of this situation, but it does not make me feel safe knowing cops like this are out there making a scene like this and using pathetic excuses like the ones they made to get into this situation to begin with. They should feel ashamed of themselves. I feel disgusted! Bean-bagging a 12 year old does not make me feel safe, sorry you disagree.
She is not a criminal? Did you actually see the video of her punching the officer? It's clowns like you who excuse this type of behavior who perpetuate the problem.

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#8 Dec 6, 2009
johanson wrote:
<quoted text>
She is not a criminal? Did you actually see the video of her punching the officer? It's clowns like you who excuse this type of behavior who perpetuate the problem.
No, what I saw was a 12 year old kicking, hitting and screaming like most disrespectful street riddin kids do. I then witnessed 2 grown men who are suppose to represent a profession that CAN handle situations like this one, fail miserably. They couldn't physically subdue that child and decided to use excessive force instead. They couldn't subdue her with training they are suppose to already have under their belt. A grown male police officer shouldn't use excessive force against a 12 year old girl even if she is kicking, screaming and hitting. They should know how to subdue her without using force. If they can't, they are terrible police officers and shouldn't be working patrol of ANY KIND! Women control 12 year old girls like this all the time without bean-bagging them, so why can't 2 grown alledgedly trained men do it?
johanson

Salem, OR

#9 Dec 7, 2009
Librahoppa wrote:
<quoted text>
No, what I saw was a 12 year old kicking, hitting and screaming like most disrespectful street riddin kids do. I then witnessed 2 grown men who are suppose to represent a profession that CAN handle situations like this one, fail miserably. They couldn't physically subdue that child and decided to use excessive force instead. They couldn't subdue her with training they are suppose to already have under their belt. A grown male police officer shouldn't use excessive force against a 12 year old girl even if she is kicking, screaming and hitting. They should know how to subdue her without using force. If they can't, they are terrible police officers and shouldn't be working patrol of ANY KIND! Women control 12 year old girls like this all the time without bean-bagging them, so why can't 2 grown alledgedly trained men do it?
Did you notice that the moment she was hit with the bean bag she instantly complied with the officers? Probably doesn't mean much to you, but it does to most common sense citizens.

Regarding women handling 12 year old girls all the time without physical confrontation, maybe you haven't been paying attention to what is happening in our classrooms; teenage and pre-teens think they can get away with anything they want, even assaulting teachers and other classmates. As far as mothers handling their kids, if this mom had handled her child, none of this would be an issue now would it?

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#10 Dec 10, 2009
johanson wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you notice that the moment she was hit with the bean bag she instantly complied with the officers? Probably doesn't mean much to you, but it does to most common sense citizens.
Regarding women handling 12 year old girls all the time without physical confrontation, maybe you haven't been paying attention to what is happening in our classrooms; teenage and pre-teens think they can get away with anything they want, even assaulting teachers and other classmates. As far as mothers handling their kids, if this mom had handled her child, none of this would be an issue now would it?
Not only DON'T you understand this situation and how serious this is to future out of control children, but you can't interpret what you read very well either! I did not WRITE that women handle 12 year old girls all the time without physical confrontation, what I wrote is this exactly:
"Women control 12 year old girls like this all the time without bean-bagging them, so why can't 2 grown alledgedly trained men do it?"
These very two different sentences have two very different meanings.

You sound frustrated with physically violent kids. I am NOT disagreeing with you about how out of control they are in classrooms and towards teachers. What I am trying to say is this:
Stay on the Topic!!!! This is about a 12 year old girl and a suspended officer, not classrooms and out of control teens.
I am not doubting this 12 year old is a shyte-head or doesn't deserve to get her butt kicked for her criminal behavior in the recent past and her choice of loser friends, but ANY kid ANYWHERE does not need excessive force used against them! A 12 year old brain does not work like an adult brain and she lacks serious impulse control at that age and good sound parental leadership to.
There is a lot this kid is missing, but bean-bagging her isn't going to "bring her around" or "do some good". She's 12 and doesn't have a good grip on her ability to judge well. The fact that she is out with known gang members clearly illustrates my point. I don't think you or anyone else is being very fair or logical when it comes to her ability to judge her actions or evaluate the consequences, or the power of 2 men against 1 12 year old girl, but all of you are expecting her to act like she has an adult brain to reason with. To me that is absurd. A grown up brain is not ANYTHING like a child's brain. Psychology has already proved this. So why is it that you can't?
If bean-bagging a kid is acceptable now, using lethal force is the next step. Using excessive force against a kid who is not mentally developed enough to understand her actions in it's entirety is not a good sound reason to use excessive force. She can not overtake 2 grown men. Otherwise, we should bean-bag EVERY 12 year old child. This is bad reasoning any way you look at it and that is why I disagree with this situation. I don't respect adults for not having the sense to know this and excuse their own actions to use excessive force when they could have subdued her in a more peaceful way, after all there were 2 grown men there, it's not like they couldn't overpower her! Did you notice they were bigger than her? They even resulted in using her weight as if they couldn't physically take her on! How pathetic is that? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it! 2 grown men who can't overpower her? who wants that on the street claiming they are "protecting" us???? WHO YOU KIDDIN??? hell, if they can't take on a 12 year old girl, how are they going to help anyone in the middle of a fight? robbery? or in an accident? Police Officers are suppose to be trained to deal with this sort of thing, not use excessive force because they are too lazy to subdue a child!
johanson

Salem, OR

#12 Dec 10, 2009
Librahopper;

It's very obvious that no matter what these police officers did, you and your police hating brethren would still be calling for this officers badge. If these officers had both jumped on this little hoodlum and used force against her, you would still be whining about the "excessive force" being used.

As for staying on topic, if you remember correctly you are the one who drove off when you said that "Women control 12 year old girls like this all the time without bean-bagging them, so why can't 2 grown allegedly trained men do it", which opens up the scope of the discussion. See, when women can't control these out of control criminals, it is the police who get called.

These police officers did use the proper training; they used non-lethal force to subdue the criminal with the least amount of danger to themselves, the criminal and the people in the surrounding area; just as they have been trained to do. Bean bagging this little criminal prevented her, the police officers and the surrounding public from further injury.

What you can't seem to accept is that if this criminal had complied with police orders to begin with, if she had not assaulted the officer and continued wrestling and hitting the officer, none of this would have happened.

Now you want to delve into the differences between the child's brain and an adult brain; thought you said to stay on topic? When the child crosses the line and assaults a police officer, they are no longer acting like a child and need to be treated as such. When these youth start making adult decisions, they will be treated like adults. You may not have heard/cared to hear, but she is being tried in adult court, per the judges orders.

One last note; you keep talking about logic and reasoning as if you have an in depth understanding of the subject. Are you taking one of those community college logic and reason classes? Your arguments jump from one idea to another, without any flow or reasoning. You make assumptions, without any support! You make derogatory statements about the officer(s) without any substantiation. You represent your opinions as if they are facts.

You might want to go back and study a little more!

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#13 Dec 11, 2009
johanson wrote:
Librahopper;
It's very obvious that no matter what these police officers did, you and your police hating brethren would still be calling for this officers badge. If these officers had both jumped on this little hoodlum and used force against her, you would still be whining about the "excessive force" being used.
As for staying on topic, if you remember correctly you are the one who drove off when you said that "Women control 12 year old girls like this all the time without bean-bagging them, so why can't 2 grown allegedly trained men do it", which opens up the scope of the discussion. See, when women can't control these out of control criminals, it is the police who get called.
These police officers did use the proper training; they used non-lethal force to subdue the criminal with the least amount of danger to themselves, the criminal and the people in the surrounding area; just as they have been trained to do. Bean bagging this little criminal prevented her, the police officers and the surrounding public from further injury.
What you can't seem to accept is that if this criminal had complied with police orders to begin with, if she had not assaulted the officer and continued wrestling and hitting the officer, none of this would have happened.
Now you want to delve into the differences between the child's brain and an adult brain; thought you said to stay on topic? When the child crosses the line and assaults a police officer, they are no longer acting like a child and need to be treated as such. When these youth start making adult decisions, they will be treated like adults. You may not have heard/cared to hear, but she is being tried in adult court, per the judges orders.
One last note; you keep talking about logic and reasoning as if you have an in depth understanding of the subject. Are you taking one of those community college logic and reason classes? Your arguments jump from one idea to another, without any flow or reasoning. You make assumptions, without any support! You make derogatory statements about the officer(s) without any substantiation. You represent your opinions as if they are facts.
You might want to go back and study a little more!
You don't have a clue what you are talking about and its obvious to me you are not smart enough to follow my logic so your excuse is that I don't follow any logic at all--the univeral dumb person's repetitive response--so be it. I am tired of debating with stupidity.
Jeff O

Salem, OR

#14 Dec 12, 2009
Librahoppa wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't have a clue what you are talking about and its obvious to me you are not smart enough to follow my logic so your excuse is that I don't follow any logic at all--the univeral dumb person's repetitive response--so be it. I am tired of debating with stupidity.
Your response is typical for someone who doesn't have a clue!
3rd street

Seattle, WA

#15 Dec 12, 2009
trooping through the concrete jungles, paranoia on high, one sees 7, 8, 12, year olds selling drugs, using drugs, carrying and using sidearms, knives, to intimidate and to assault and to murder......12 year old girls and boys across the world have strapped on bombs and exploded themselves and others for their tribe, county, and religion.....In parts of the world mothers will leave carriages filled with their new born babies. When concerned persons look in and attempt to move or take the baby to safety then a hidden bomb explodes, maiming and killing bystandsers...... children will come up to soldiers, police, religious figures, and just the public and beg for candy or money or food. Someone comes up to them to give them help and the child stabs them and cuts their clothes off of them and anything they can get.....The age of the criminal is no longer a logical reason not to defend youself and bring the criminal down or take them out.

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#16 Dec 12, 2009
3rd street wrote:
trooping through the concrete jungles, paranoia on high, one sees 7, 8, 12, year olds selling drugs, using drugs, carrying and using sidearms, knives, to intimidate and to assault and to murder......12 year old girls and boys across the world have strapped on bombs and exploded themselves and others for their tribe, county, and religion.....In parts of the world mothers will leave carriages filled with their new born babies. When concerned persons look in and attempt to move or take the baby to safety then a hidden bomb explodes, maiming and killing bystandsers...... children will come up to soldiers, police, religious figures, and just the public and beg for candy or money or food. Someone comes up to them to give them help and the child stabs them and cuts their clothes off of them and anything they can get.....The age of the criminal is no longer a logical reason not to defend youself and bring the criminal down or take them out.
How does this relate to this specific case? These officers claim to be looking in on a gang in the area and all they caught was a 12 year old girl who was not apart of that gang, but is a streeter. That excuse alone is a joke to me. She didn't blow up anybody so that isn't the issue here. The question is "Can 2 police officers subdue a child or is excessive force the only answer?" I say it isn't the answer at all. You are saying because children are used to bomb soldiers in other countries ALL children should have excessive force used against them. You are also saying police officers are not physically able to restrain children because they have had no training and are at a complete loss on how to subdue a child so excessive force is the answer.
She is a petty theft criminal who happens to be a 12 year old child. She is not out bombing soldiers and maiming bystanders. She is a streeter and there are ways to deal with child streeters, violence shouldn't be one of them as the statistics show violence begets violence. The police are only adding to her dilema.

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#17 Dec 12, 2009
Jeff O wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response is typical for someone who doesn't have a clue!
then by all means....enlighten me oh not so wise one! lol
Jeff O

Salem, OR

#18 Dec 13, 2009
[QUOTE who=Librahoppa"]<quote d text>

Blah, blah, blah ...
"A 12 year old brain does not work like an adult brain and she lacks serious impulse control

There is a lot this kid is missing, but bean-bagging her isn't going to "bring her around" or "do some good." [/QUOTE]

What you all a lack of impulse control, I call attacking a police officer.

Shooting her with the bean bag was not intended to "bring her around" or "do some good." It was designed to get her to comply with their orders, which it did. As soon as she was hit with the bean bag round, she complied. How difficult can this be for you?
johanson

Salem, OR

#19 Dec 14, 2009
Librahoppa wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't have a clue what you are talking about and its obvious to me you are not smart enough to follow my logic so your excuse is that I don't follow any logic at all--the univeral dumb person's repetitive response--so be it. I am tired of debating with stupidity.
Here is one of your "logical" gems; "Using excessive force against a kid who is not mentally developed enough to understand her actions in it's entirety is not a good sound reason to use excessive force."

Using excessive force is not a good reason to use excessive force?

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#20 Dec 14, 2009
Jeff O wrote:
<quoted text>
What you all a lack of impulse control, I call attacking a police officer.
Shooting her with the bean bag was not intended to "bring her around" or "do some good." It was designed to get her to comply with their orders, which it did. As soon as she was hit with the bean bag round, she complied. How difficult can this be for you?
The problem with your logic is that they had her down on the ground already. If that isn't under compliance I don't know what is! The PO bean-bagged her AFTER she was down on the ground and being held by the other PO. According to the PPD Internal Affairs Division that's why they are investigating this to begin with! How difficult can this be for you?

Since: Aug 08

AOL

#22 Dec 14, 2009
johanson wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is one of your "logical" gems; "Using excessive force against a kid who is not mentally developed enough to understand her actions in it's entirety is not a good sound reason to use excessive force."
Using excessive force is not a good reason to use excessive force?
You poor bastard, you just omitted everything I wrote and made up your own interpretation about what you think I said! lol
That's fantastic. I love it. I can always get a good laugh from topix regular's.

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