Greenup Going Wet?
hmmm

Ashland, KY

#344 Dec 1, 2012
lady grace, I agree that church is a place of worship and not a political pulpit. That being said, church buildings serve many purposes all time like baby showers and weddings. Those things are not necessarily strictly all about worship. I have even been to churches that have exercise clubs and classes on money management.

I don't think it is wrong as long as the general purpose is trying to find what God wants you to do. I think it is great that church buildings are used for these purposes when not in normal session. Putting God as a part of your baby shower or exercise club sounds really good.

I wasn't at this "meeting" so I cant comment on what happened. I would hope first they prayed for compassion and guidance and then had a loving discussion about the issue.

Honestly when it comes to politics and voting I generally think the best thing a christian can do is pray and then evangelize by spreading the word to the lost. That will fix more problems then voting.
A Father

Springfield, NJ

#345 Dec 1, 2012
hmmm wrote:
lady grace, I agree that church is a place of worship and not a political pulpit. That being said, church buildings serve many purposes all time like baby showers and weddings. Those things are not necessarily strictly all about worship. I have even been to churches that have exercise clubs and classes on money management.
I don't think it is wrong as long as the general purpose is trying to find what God wants you to
do. I think it is great that church buildings are used for these purposes when not in normal session. Putting God as a part of your baby shower or exercise club sounds really good.
I wasn't at this "meeting" so I cant comment on what happened. I would hope first they prayed for compassion and guidance and then had a loving discussion about the issue.
Honestly when it comes to politics and voting I generally think the best thing a christian can do is pray and then evangelize by spreading the word to the lost. That will fix more problems
then voting.
A baby shower is a praise, for a new child of god being born, a praise to god, by celebrating a birth in his house, a wedding your being married in the eyes of the lord. A political meeting about an election that has no moral issue other than
opinion is WRONG!!! It's a group of worldly Christians who pray loudly so the world can see how holy they are. I have heard no REAL proof that this would be a bad thing for our area. Upon hearing this at first I was dead set against it, but I spoke with a young man who gave me fact, examples of numbers, and then gave me the sources to look at myself. I signed the petition at old fashion days, because their goal is for prosperity. this church goal is SHOW!!! Show some numbers on why it's bad, give scripture why it's bad, give something other than your hypocritical opinions and lies. The argument is not just economic it's religious, but you have NEVER given any proof other than hearsay, speculation, or lies.
true

Silsbee, TX

#346 Dec 1, 2012
A Father wrote:
<quoted text>A baby shower is a praise, for a new child of god being born, a praise to god, by celebrating a birth in his house, a wedding your being married in the eyes of the lord. A political meeting about an election that has no moral issue other than
opinion is WRONG!!! It's a group of worldly Christians who pray loudly so the world can see how holy they are. I have heard no REAL proof that this would be a bad thing for our area. Upon hearing this at first I was dead set against it, but I spoke with a young man who gave me fact, examples of numbers, and then gave me the sources to look at myself. I signed the petition at old fashion days, because their goal is for prosperity. this church goal is SHOW!!! Show some numbers on why it's bad, give scripture why it's bad, give something other than your hypocritical opinions and lies. The argument is not just economic it's religious, but you have NEVER given any proof other than hearsay, speculation, or lies.
This is so true.
blue law

Kenova, WV

#347 Dec 2, 2012
VALLEY GIRL wrote:
<quoted text>Kentucky doesn't have a "blue law" prohibiting alcohol sales on Sunday. Greenup County has absolutely no alcohol restrictions (even though Bellefonte and Russell currently allow alcohol sales and the Amvets, VFW, and Legion have been serving alcohol to members for decades). All alcohol sales are unrestricted by the county.
To sum it up, there are no county restrictions on alcohol sales within a minimum distances from schools, day care centers, houses or worship, etc. Since Greenup County has never put restrictions on current alcohol sales it's reasonable to expect they won't do so in the future.
If/when this alcohol vote passes you could actually see a bar on one side of a church and a carry out on the other side, and both could be open for business while peole were attending worship.
KY actually does have no sales on Sunday. That is why Ironton sales are so high on Sunday. S&s carry out allowed sales. If you go to Walmart or Kroger and try to buy beer or whatever on a Sunday they have it locked up. Greenup in that aspect wouldn't be different I assume.
hmmm

Ashland, KY

#348 Dec 2, 2012
A Father wrote:
<quoted text>
A baby shower is a praise, for a new child of god being born, a praise to god, by celebrating a birth in his house, a wedding your being married in the eyes of the lord. A political meeting about an election that has no moral issue other than
opinion is WRONG!!! It's a group of worldly Christians who pray loudly so the world can see how holy they are. I have heard no REAL proof that this would be a bad thing for our area. Upon hearing this at first I was dead set against it, but I spoke with a young man who gave me fact, examples of numbers, and then gave me the sources to look at myself. I signed the petition at old fashion days, because their goal is for prosperity. this church goal is SHOW!!! Show some numbers on why it's bad, give scripture why it's bad, give something other than your hypocritical opinions and lies. The argument is not just economic it's religious, but you have NEVER given any proof other than hearsay, speculation, or lies.
wow. You sound really angry. I didnt think anything I said was inflammatory. I was just suggesting things are done at churches that are not just worship services and that I wasnt there so I don't know exactly what went on.
hmmm

Ashland, KY

#349 Dec 2, 2012
I didnt know what kind of stats you are looking for. I did find that in 2009 in the US there were 24518 deaths attributed to alcohol (disease and accidents). That made us just over 1% of all deaths in the United States. This was from the CDC government site.

OXford study on access to alcohol that basically combined 59 others studies from 2000-2008 to see what the findings would be. They found number of places selling and more hours selling followed an increase in consumption and negative health effects. This is found here http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/44/5...

http://resources.prev.org/documents/AlcoholVi...
This a study by the pacific institue that references other studies that find in general "The regulation of availability is important because research generally shows that when alcohol is more easily available, people drink more and more alcohol problems occur."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22424256
Is a Library of Medicine study showing how privatizing and creating open sales of alcohol lead to an increase in excessive alcohol consumption

These were not handpicked because of there outcome. It was a simple search for the effects of alcohol and these were at the top of the results.

Make of them what you will. Im sure there can always be found studies that suggest something different. If you really think more good comes from selling and drinking alcohol then bad then there is nothing to talk about. It just isnt true.

I know some people can drink responsibly. Those are not the people im worried about.
Daily

Russell, KY

#350 Dec 3, 2012
It awful quit on here, must read the Daily Newspaper this morning. Just the being on the wet vote. No running off the mouth with the one that spearheading this issue to get it pass. Vote No! lmao!!
TooShort

Athens, OH

#351 Dec 3, 2012
Daily wrote:
It awful quit on here, must read the Daily Newspaper this morning. Just the being on the wet vote. No running off the mouth with the one that spearheading this issue to get it pass. Vote No! lmao!!
It is amazing the hypocrits that will come of the woodwork to oppose this wet vote, all for political gain. See through the smokescreen people.
Truly Faithful

Grayson, KY

#352 Dec 3, 2012
http://www.brucesabin.com/alcohol.html

Baptist please educate yourselves.
poof

Ironton, OH

#353 Dec 3, 2012
This county is circling the drain. This "Wet" vote is just what the county needs to boost the local economy. C'mon, it's been dry since the 30's and this county has been on a downward spiral ever since and anyone who says any different is blind. If these local church groups, who are against this proposition, could come up with any other proposal to boost revenue in this county, I might vote no, but unfortunately I do not see any other simple solution. I do believe this vote will pass, and hopefully so. I don't want to see this town wither any farther because of the morale of a set few who still believe in a "fifties" mentality of family values.
poof

Ironton, OH

#354 Dec 3, 2012
hmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I am not sure that the county going wet will really help at all. I don't think many new businesses will come in. It isnt like toyota is going to build a plant in old town because they sell beer.
As being someone who used to go to bars, I understand how people being closer to alcohol could actually cause fewer accidents on the road??? maybe???
One thing I don't want is a bar or carryout anywhere near my house. Not within a mile or two. Between fights, robberies and prostitution that follows those place I don't want it. SO if you vote yes, I hope you do understanding that place could be next to your home. If you are fine with that then I don't know why not vote yes. I'll probably vote no b/c I don't want one near my home.
Probably would bring in more taxes. NOt sure if that would be used for any good at all.
Doesn't sound like you're too sure of anything, you might be from this area but stay up there in Butler, PA and let us upstanding, law-abiding taxpayers take care of business down here.
Agree

Russell, KY

#355 Dec 3, 2012
poof wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't sound like you're too sure of anything, you might be from this area but stay up there in Butler, PA and let us upstanding, law-abiding taxpayers take care of business down here.
Proof I agree with you 100%. Or is Mr.PA one of the spearheads of this issue. VOTE NO. I am not a Baptist.
Dud

Russell, KY

#356 Dec 3, 2012
poof wrote:
This county is circling the drain. This "Wet" vote is just what the county needs to boost the local economy. C'mon, it's been dry since the 30's and this county has been on a downward spiral ever since and anyone who says any different is blind. If these local church groups, who are against this proposition, could come up with any other proposal to boost revenue in this county, I might vote no, but unfortunately I do not see any other simple solution. I do believe this vote will pass, and hopefully so. I don't want to see this town wither any farther because of the morale of a set few who still believe in a "fifties" mentality of family values.
Lol!
Hey

Lexington, KY

#357 Dec 3, 2012
So, I guess all those who vote no to Greenup county going wet because they don't want to shop or eat where alcohol is served won't shop at Wal-mart in Ashland or drugstores and convenience stores... And it should be easy to get a table at one of the restaurants in Ashland that serve alcohol because heaven knows all the Greenup county people won't be there!!! ;))
my my my

Greenup, KY

#358 Dec 4, 2012
If you want this town to shrivel up and continue to die...please vote no. But, if you're interested in seeing it having the potential to keep up with the rest of the world, vote yes. You can pretend it will be so bad, but it will produce revenue along with business for a town that needs it. Welcome to 2012, alcohol is the least of your worries. I went to high school there, and whether alcohol was or wasn't in GC, didn't matter. We still were able to get it because someone was always willing to make the short trip across the bridge. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter if it is sold here or not, if someone wants alcohol right now, they'll get it. The only difference is that Ohio and Ashland are making big bucks off of OUR money. That money is able to be used in their community, whereas it's going out of GC never to be seen again. Think about it.
Truly Faithful

Grayson, KY

#359 Dec 4, 2012
In the history of Christianity, alcoholic prohibition is a relatively new idea. In fact, alcohol was a normal part of life. In Colonial America, the Puritans expected Christians to drink (Hearn, 1943). In the 1700s, a Baptist minister created the formula for bourbon whiskey (Hailey, 1992). During the 1800s, many Southern ministers operated stills, and sold alcohol (Hearn, 1943). Parishioners who owned stills would tithe their alcohol; and preachers' salaries often included whiskey. All this began to change, however, as the Temperance movement took shape (Hailey, 1992).

The idea that alcohol was dangerous was not new, though. In 600 B.C. Pathagoras noted, "drunkenness is an expression identical with ruin." In 44 B.C., Cicero wrote, "a sensual and intemperate youth hands over a worn-out body to old age," when he drinks to excess. Centuries later, Muhammed declared, "there is a devil in every berry of the grape" (Hearn, 1943). In fact, Islam has a total prohibition of alcohol, proclaiming drinking a sin (Parshall, 1989). Chaucer wrote in A.D. 1380, "character and shame depart when wine comes in." Clearly, for thousands of years, men have known of the dangers of alcohol. Knowledge about the dangers of alcohol stopped few from drinking, however. Jesus not only drank, his first miracle was turning water to wine; and he used wine as a symbol of the salvation through his blood (Hearn, 1943; Jn 2; Lk 22:20).

For Southern Baptists, too, alcohol was a part of life. That is until the Temperance movement began to infiltrate the religious denominations in America. Finally, in 1896, the Southern Baptist Convention officially denounced alcohol and asked that churches excommunicate anyone who sold or drank alcohol. For the first time in Southern Baptist history, drinking was considered immoral. The success of this measure is debatable. A Southern Baptist study has shown that in the 1990s, 46 percent of members drink alcohol (Hailey, 1992).

Investigation shows that although people knew of the danger in alcohol, throughout history, Christian prohibition is a new, and rather American, phenomenon. The decisions of churches to abstain came out of the American Temperance movement. David Hailey, though supporting the SBC's resolution, admits that biblical support for abstinence was an after-thought. Christians had decided, for social reasons, that alcohol was wrong. Only then, did they turn to the Bible to find support (Hailey, 1992).
hmmm

Ashland, KY

#360 Dec 4, 2012
poof wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't sound like you're too sure of anything, you might be from this area but stay up there in Butler, PA and let us upstanding, law-abiding taxpayers take care of business down here.
Poof, I just wanted you to know Ive never been to Pennsylvania. My internet provider just runs through there so even though I live in Greenup County it shows up as Butler PA.

And no, I try not to be too sure of things because we really don't know everything. Like wild claims that alcohol sales is the only way to save the county. that is just rediculous when someone says that. Those people should definitly not be listened to at all. At least I admit Im thinking about the issue and trying to figure out what is best. Those people who hail alcohol sales as a savior can just look to ironton or portsmouth. They sale alcohol and in general have been dying for decades also.
Jeremy

United States

#361 Dec 4, 2012
hmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Poof, I just wanted you to know Ive never been to Pennsylvania. My internet provider just runs through there so even though I live in Greenup County it shows up as Butler PA.
And no, I try not to be too sure of things because we really don't know everything. Like wild claims that alcohol sales is the only way to save the county. that is just rediculous when someone says that. Those people should
definitly not be listened to at all. At least I admit Im thinking about the issue and trying to figure out what is best. Those people who hail alcohol sales as a savior can just look to ironton or portsmouth. They sale alcohol and in general
have been dying for decades also.
Dying, means at one time they were alive, and even now I STILL go there (ironton&portsmouth) to eat at restaurants cause we(Greenup) have zero, and NO it is definately not the savior but i am 100% positive it is the first step. Without it Ashland had nothing, no mall, no nice restaurants, no theater.
Info Requested

Ashland, KY

#362 Dec 5, 2012
blue law wrote:
<quoted text>
KY actually does have no sales on Sunday. That is why Ironton sales are so high on Sunday. S&s carry out allowed sales. If you go to Walmart or Kroger and try to buy beer or whatever on a Sunday they have it locked up. Greenup in that aspect wouldn't be different I assume.
Ashland or Boyd County might have Sunday ban on alcohol sales. I've been told that Sunday beer sales are allowed in Ironton but not liquor. I don't really know for sure about Ironton or Ashland.
I know that Greenup County Fiscal Court has not adopted a single ordinance taxing alcohol sales, restricting alcohol sales on Sunday, or restricting alcohol sales near a church,school, daycare, etc. They've taken the "hands off" approach to let the voters decide "all or nothing" in this January election.
To my knowledge, Kentucky does not ban alcohol sales on Sunday. I researched KY law and didn't find it. If that's incorrect, please post the KRS for the blue law in Kentucky.
More Info

Ashland, KY

#363 Dec 5, 2012
Jeremy wrote:
<quoted text>
Dying, means at one time they were alive, and even now I STILL go there (ironton&portsmouth) to eat at restaurants cause we(Greenup) have zero, and NO it is definately not the savior but i am 100% positive it is the first step. Without it Ashland had nothing, no mall, no nice restaurants, no theater.
Jeremy,
Maybe you're too young to remember it but your last post is completely wrong. Ashland had places to eat and a movie theatre long before they had alcohol sales. You can debate if the restaurants were "nice" enough for you or not but that's strictly opinion based. I personally don't think they have any nice restaurants at the present time. Of course that's just my opinion and it's no more important than anybody elses.

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