created by: Sky King | Dec 24, 2012

Greensburg, IN

270 votes

Airport

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M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#26
Dec 29, 2012
 
Why should the BOAC do a RETURN ON INVESTMENT ANALYSIS before GIFTING the TAXPAYERS with this proposed BOHEMUS of an airport expansion????

Well.....let's let the TRANSPORTATION RESEARCH BOARD answer that question:

"MINIMIZING CONSTRUCTION COSTS TO ENHANCE THE FINANCIAL VIABILITY OF GENERAL AVIATION AIRPORTS"

QUOTE: "Major conclusions reached are:

1. Traditional needs analysis and benefit-cost techniques are too subjective to be used to justify airport construction. RETURN ON INVESTMENT ANALYSIS offers the best procedure for objectively evaluating the merits of a project.

2. Alternative project scopes should be tested using return on investment analysis to define the most appropriate project scope."

http://pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx ...

GUIDELINES FOR FUTURE GENERAL AVIATION ECONOMIC IMPACT STUDIES

"Problems exist with market failure in general aviation.

Cost-benefit analyses are weak, and are not a good way to get the answers, partly because they are difficult to do, and partly because the decision makers in the political arena do not necessarily use them in the decision making process.

General aviation at the local level is weak politically, and EIS must help out here. The beneficiaries of general aviation must be sought out and kept informed in terms they can understand and identify with.

http://pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx ...

"Research has shown that only the larger, major airports are financially self-supporting.

General aviation airports seldom bring in enough revenues to meet their costs.

Although some small airports ostensibly can cover their costs, in most cases this claim is the product of using accounting practices which disguise costs and do not reflect true financial operation.

General aviation airports should look to all potential revenue sources--fees, concessions, sales taxes, personal property taxes, and government subsidies.

Historically, government subsidies have been restricted to capital improvements.

These grants usually have strings attached which require the facilities to be maintained.

A case is presented that general aviation airports should also be eligible to receive operational subsidies from state and federal governments.

http://pubsindex.trb.org/view.aspx ...
M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#27
Dec 29, 2012
 
Now let's see what USA TODAY'S research found on expanding GENERAL AVIATION airports:

USA TODAY touts this report as being: " the first full accounting of the 28-year-old Airport Improvement Program"

In this article they make the following quotes:

"ē Three-quarters of general-aviation airports lose money every year and stay solvent only with cash from local taxpayers, says Vitaly Guzhva, a finance professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida."

"ēGeneral-aviation airports are vastly underused. A USA TODAY analysis of aviation plans in seven states indicates that more than half of their 312 general-aviation airports operate at less than 10% capacity. Nearly 90% operate at less than one-third of their capacity, well below the rates of larger airports that serve commercial passengers."

"An awful lot of them are in very deep financial trouble," airport consultant David Plavin says"
whatever

Greensburg, IN

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#28
Dec 29, 2012
 
lol! skyking keep reposting and take yet another page from mj's book. thanks for the good laugh on this holiday weekend.
M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#29
Dec 29, 2012
 
Alan Goddard wrote:
Interesting how the bypass is used as a comparison for the airport expansion. I might remind everyone that there was a proven NEED for/by the people (and used by the people) for the building of the bypass, not the case for the airport expansion. The only comparsion that exists is the condemnation of land owned by my family to complete both projects. The bypass went right through my father's farmhouse and even though it disturbed him greatly Dad realized that the bypass (by the State) would benefit the citizens of Decatur County and excepted it. The airport expansion threating our heritage (land) does not, and has yet to be proven it will. END OF ALAN GODDARD's QUOTE.

Alan Goddard wrote:
Mr. Moe are you insinuating that my family did not pay for the land we still own after 162 years. It was bought during the Homestead Act and we have paid taxes on it ever since! You sir are a blooming idiot. How about the land the city of Greensburg was founded on? Did anyone pay for it in 1822? I doubt seriously Mr. Moe if you know so I'll assist you. The 100 acres of land the city was built on was a gift by my family! Kinda ironic (look the word up Mr. Moe) my family gave the land to the city of Greensburg and now they plan on taking land away from us that we paid for! END OF ALAN GODDARD'S QUOTE.

Whatever....since you say you are not either way on this project...then this question is not for you.

The people involved in pushing this project forward with no RETURN ON THE INVESTMENT to show the NEED or that this project will SUPPORT ITSELF is who this is addressed to.

Why are you taking land by EMINENT DOMAIN from people who do not want to sell, for a project there is no PROVEN NEED for and refuse to look at an ideal location that belongs to two people who avidly support this project?
SkyKing

Greensburg, IN

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#30
Dec 30, 2012
 
Mean Jean wrote: WHY ARE WE PROPOSING TO BUILD A 32 MILLION DOLLAR AIRPORT EXPANSION OVER THE NEXT 20 YEARS WHEN WE DO NOT HAVE THE WATER FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

As usual your perception of the airport expansion is clouded with an evil agenda to control Greensburg. The water isssue is about enlarging our water resources to support Honda and all of Greensburg. Why would we look for the amount of water to support our current needs and not find the resources to support our future needs? The answer to that question is it dosen't fit into Mean Jean's baseless arguments.
M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#31
Dec 30, 2012
 
Well, Skyking, I guess we have one point we agree on.

There is an evil agenda....but IMO it is the pro expansion group taking land from landowners by eminent domain who do not want to sell when you supporters of this fiasco have never proven the NEED or that it will support itself.

Supporters of this expansion have land that this project could be accomplished on but instead you are taking land from those who don't want to sell?

That is evil.

Alan Goddard wrote:
Interesting how the bypass is used as a comparison for the airport expansion. I might remind everyone that there was a proven NEED for/by the people (and used by the people) for the building of the bypass, not the case for the airport expansion. The only comparsion that exists is the condemnation of land owned by my family to complete both projects.

The bypass went right through my father's farmhouse and even though it disturbed him greatly Dad realized that the bypass (by the State) would benefit the citizens of Decatur County and excepted it. The airport expansion threating our heritage (land) does not, and has yet to be proven it will. END OF ALAN GODDARD's QUOTE.

Alan Goddard wrote:
Mr. Moe are you insinuating that my family did not pay for the land we still own after 162 years. It was bought during the Homestead Act and we have paid taxes on it ever since! You sir are a blooming idiot. How about the land the city of Greensburg was founded on? Did anyone pay for it in 1822? I doubt seriously Mr. Moe if you know so I'll assist you. The 100 acres of land the city was built on was a gift by my family! Kinda ironic (look the word up Mr. Moe) my family gave the land to the city of Greensburg and now they plan on taking land away from us that we paid for! END OF ALAN GODDARD'S QUOTE.

Whatever....since you say you are not either way on this project...then this question is not for you.

The people involved in pushing this project forward with no RETURN ON THE INVESTMENT to show the NEED or that this project will SUPPORT ITSELF is who this is addressed to.

Why are you taking land by EMINENT DOMAIN from people who do not want to sell, for a project there is no PROVEN NEED for and refuse to look at an ideal location that belongs to two people who avidly support this project?
The Joker

Indianapolis, IN

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#32
Dec 30, 2012
 
Leavin' home, out on the road
I've been down before
Ridin' along in this big ol' jet plane
I've been thinkin' about my home
But my love light seems so far away
And I feel like it's all been done
Somebody's tryin' to make me stay
You know I've got to be movin' on

Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Don't carry me too far away
Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Cause it's here that I've got to stay

Goodbye to all my friends at home
Goodbye to people I've trusted
I've got to go out and make my way
I might get rich you know I might get busted
But my heart keeps calling me backwards
As I get on the 707
Ridin' high I got tears in my eyes
You know you got to go through hell
Before you get to heaven

Big ol' jet airliner
Don't carry me too far away
Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Cause it's here that I've got to stay

Touchin' down in New England town
Feel the heat comin' down
I've got to keep on keepin' on
You know the big wheel keeps on spinnin' around
And I'm goin' with some hesitation
You know that I can surely see
That I don't want to get caught up in any of that
Funky shit goin' down in the city

Big ol' jet airliner
Don't carry me too far away
Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Cause it's here that I've got to stay

Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Don't carry me too far away
Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Cause it's here that I've got to stay
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah

Big ol' jet airliner
Don't carry me too far away
Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Cause it's here that I've got to stay

Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Carry me to my home
Oh, Oh big ol' jet airliner
Cause it's there that I belong
M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#34
Dec 31, 2012
 

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Well, Skyking, I guess we have one point we agree on.

There is an evil agenda....but IMO it is the pro expansion group taking land from landowners by eminent domain who do not want to sell when you supporters of this fiasco have never proven the NEED or that it will support itself.

Supporters of this expansion have land that this project could be accomplished on but instead you are taking land from those who don't want to sell?

That is evil.

Alan Goddard wrote:
Interesting how the bypass is used as a comparison for the airport expansion. I might remind everyone that there was a proven NEED for/by the people (and used by the people) for the building of the bypass, not the case for the airport expansion. The only comparsion that exists is the condemnation of land owned by my family to complete both projects.

The bypass went right through my father's farmhouse and even though it disturbed him greatly Dad realized that the bypass (by the State) would benefit the citizens of Decatur County and excepted it. The airport expansion threating our heritage (land) does not, and has yet to be proven it will. END OF ALAN GODDARD's QUOTE.

Alan Goddard wrote:
Mr. Moe are you insinuating that my family did not pay for the land we still own after 162 years. It was bought during the Homestead Act and we have paid taxes on it ever since! You sir are a blooming idiot. How about the land the city of Greensburg was founded on? Did anyone pay for it in 1822? I doubt seriously Mr. Moe if you know so I'll assist you. The 100 acres of land the city was built on was a gift by my family! Kinda ironic (look the word up Mr. Moe) my family gave the land to the city of Greensburg and now they plan on taking land away from us that we paid for! END OF ALAN GODDARD'S QUOTE.

Whatever....since you say you are not either way on this project...then this question is not for you.

The people involved in pushing this project forward with no RETURN ON THE INVESTMENT to show the NEED or that this project will SUPPORT ITSELF is who this is addressed to.

Why are you taking land by EMINENT DOMAIN from people who do not want to sell, for a project there is no PROVEN NEED for and refuse to look at an ideal location that belongs to two people who avidly support this project?
whatever

Greensburg, IN

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#35
Dec 31, 2012
 
THERE SHE BLOWS....SUPPOSITION AGAIN. Supporters have land that this project could be accomplished on. Where? Whats the proof? Was that land looked at by your site selection committee? Lets see buying all the land building everything from scratch. oh, my the 32 million dollar project might take more money. more hot air.

and i understand the process. i do know that there is an environmental assessment that would need to be done. and nopo no need to call me a name. it makes u look more like a bully than a participant in a true civil debate.
M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#36
Dec 31, 2012
 

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whatever wrote:
THERE SHE BLOWS....SUPPOSITION AGAIN. Supporters have land that this project could be accomplished on. Where? Whats the proof? Was that land looked at by your site selection committee? Lets see buying all the land building everything from scratch. oh, my the 32 million dollar project might take more money. more hot air.
and i understand the process. i do know that there is an environmental assessment that would need to be done. and nopo no need to call me a name. it makes u look more like a bully than a participant in a true civil debate.
There is a CLEAR and EASY solution to this whole issue!

TAKE A VOTE OF THE TAXPAYERS!!!

problem solved!
Nopo

Greenwood, IN

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#37
Dec 31, 2012
 

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whatever wrote:
Nopo. No need to call me a name. It makes you look more like a bully than a participant in a true civil debate.
Call you a name? I haven't posted on this thread since Christmas day.

Why do you respond to anything on this generic thread, Jean?
M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#38
Dec 31, 2012
 
Nopo wrote:
<quoted text>
Call you a name? I haven't posted on this thread since Christmas day.
Why do you respond to anything on this generic thread, Jean?
NOPO their infantile attacks don't bother me...look at the judge on my last post (interesting, agree, brilliant)...looks like the people want to vote on this.

is this a government of the people, by the people, for the people, or is it a government that is in the face of the people?

“"Always Thinking"”

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

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#39
Dec 31, 2012
 
I think it's Topix?
(interesting, agreeable[[[NOT!]]], brilliant)...
YEP! Nopo is that too!
Nopo did you get a chance to see the question I ask you to answer before it disapppeared?
Define NEOcon:- you - not the web::
whatever

Greensburg, IN

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#40
Dec 31, 2012
 

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no, its infantile? whatever. i am asking you to be responsible in ur positioning. and provide well thought out options not speculation. but that requires work.

nopo, u've done it all over the threads. u both deserve each other.
M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#41
Dec 31, 2012
 

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whatever wrote:
no, its infantile? whatever. i am asking you to be responsible in ur positioning. and provide well thought out options not speculation. but that requires work.
nopo, u've done it all over the threads. u both deserve each other.
Can't put it any simpler...TAKE A VOTE OF THE TAXPAYERS OF THE CITY OF GREENSBURG.

“"Always Thinking"”

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

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#42
Dec 31, 2012
 
Keep feeding trolls they keep esting it up-will you guys ever learn??????????

“"Always Thinking"”

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

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#43
Dec 31, 2012
 

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eating not esting
what I wouldn't give for modify on this forum!
SkyKing

Greensburg, IN

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#44
Dec 31, 2012
 

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Repost for the evil Mean Jean, maybe after 10 or 20 times she may read it.
RELOCATE at New Point, is another ridiculous argument that Mean Jean has brought up. There is no highway 3 or highway 421 and no manufacturing. Letís look at remotely located airports. The North Vernon airport is actually located at St Annís. The only business that is located at the airport is a small flight training school. The airport at Shelbyville is located north of town. It is not easily accessible from Shelbyville. There is a flight training school located at the airport and no other business. The Columbus airport is close to the city and has numerous businesses, a Social Security office, 3 colleges, 2 manufacturing facilities, 2 construction companies, a restaurant and a museum.
A NEW LOCATION would require imminent domain, or the threat of imminent domain to acquire the ground. The only property that would take advantage of the 3 state highways and railroad is located in the immediate Greensburg area.
M Jean Johannigman

Greensburg, IN

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#45
Jan 1, 2013
 

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SkyKing wrote:
Repost for the evil Mean Jean, maybe after 10 or 20 times she may read it.
RELOCATE at New Point, is another ridiculous argument that Mean Jean has brought up. There is no highway 3 or highway 421 and no manufacturing. Letís look at remotely located airports. The North Vernon airport is actually located at St Annís. The only business that is located at the airport is a small flight training school. The airport at Shelbyville is located north of town. It is not easily accessible from Shelbyville. There is a flight training school located at the airport and no other business. The Columbus airport is close to the city and has numerous businesses, a Social Security office, 3 colleges, 2 manufacturing facilities, 2 construction companies, a restaurant and a museum.
A NEW LOCATION would require imminent domain, or the threat of imminent domain to acquire the ground. The only property that would take advantage of the 3 state highways and railroad is located in the immediate Greensburg area.
j

The COlumbus airport also has a tower which you are not currently planning ...

Where are your statistics?

where is your Return on Investment to prove the NEED of this airport and that it will support itself?

Why are you wanting to take land by eminent domain from people who do not want to sell without the NEED being proven?

it is not I that say that a Return on Investment is the only way to indicate need....it is the Transportation Research Board.

you have two supporters that have an ideal location....perhaps they will follow the Goddards contribution of land to found Greensburg on and donate the land for your field of dreams.
whatawaste

Greensburg, IN

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#46
Jan 1, 2013
 

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u cant do an roi on infrastructure. referrendum. didn't i hear that isn't a requirement. did u do a petition and try to force a referendum. ill go read up on that one.

and what is ur estimate of a cost of building a total new airport from scratch?$32 million would go up significantly and u know it. but cost is irrelevant because u just want to be right. thank goodness u never won an election. wonder how much a mayor mean jean would have cost the taxpayers.

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