NUKE MECCA and DESTROY ISLAM

NUKE MECCA and DESTROY ISLAM

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Rusty Shackleford

Knoxville, TN

#1 Dec 22, 2011
In this post I make the case that nuking Mecca would be a rational deterrent to radical Islamists bent on using WMD against American civilians. However, even if there is no deterrent effect, attacking Mecca and wiping out the central locus of Islamic ritual worship may be in the long-term interests of the US and Occidental world.

Ace: "What would we do if we get nuked? Continue to 'hunt down the terrorists' who nuked us? At what point does the desire to survive outweigh the desire to be merciful and sparing in the use of force?"

Bill Whittle: "If a suitcase nuke detonates in Times Square, or Long Beach harbor, or outside the Capitol building, what do we do? Nuke Mecca? Incinerate Damascus? Because so help me God, I tremble to say it that is exactly the response our enemies would hope for. They care not a whit about their own people because they have no allegiance to anyone but themselves and their vision of a vengeful and bloodthirsty Allah."

In response to Bill Whittle and Ace's considerable thought on how you deter terrorists, I thought I'd add a couple of thoughts that have been ruminating between my ears for awhile now.

Let me make a couple of points first. One: I do not advocate using nuclear weapons. Two: I do not advocate killing Muslims or any other follower of any religion. Three: I do not imagine in any way possible the US government actually doing this--or even thinking it. Four: These are rudimentary thoughts. This post is used as a sounding board only. Much of what I say may be wrong and all is subject to revision. The purpose of this post is to start a conversation.

First point: Bill's major argument about deterring terrorists is well taken and mostly on the money. I think he's right, for the most part: you cannot deter these guys, only defeat them. And if incinerating Damascus were the only threat we could use to deter terrorists then certainly a MAD scheme would not work in this new Cold War we find ourselves in.

However, Mecca is not Damascus. It plays a central role in Muslim worship. Five times a day Muslims pray toward it. All Muslims who have the means are expected to make the Hajj--a pilgrimage to Mecca which revolves around the Kaaba stone. The Kaaba stone is really the reason Mecca is considered holy. Muslims believe the site was used for worship as far back as Adam and that the shrine around the stone was first placed there by Abraham (Ibrahim). There is a 12 mile zone around the stone that infidels are restricted from entering. It's that holy. No non-Muslims near it. In fact, without Mecca and the Kaaba stone, Islam would be very different.

Mecca, then, is quite unlike any other place in the world for Muslims. It is an entire city dedicated to Muslim worship. A place set apart. A holy place. It is an entire city that is thought to be the Temple of God.

Islamist terrorists also consider Mecca the holiest place in the world. It is central to their mode of worship. They face it when they pray. They too believe they must make the hajj. If we take them at their word, then the reason they commit terrorist acts is because they take their religious convictions so seriously. When they kill us, it is because they believe that this is what their God wants them to do.
Rusty Shackleford

Knoxville, TN

#2 Dec 22, 2011
First point: Bill's major argument about deterring terrorists is well taken and mostly on the money. I think he's right, for the most part: you cannot deter these guys, only defeat them. And if incinerating Damascus were the only threat we could use to deter terrorists then certainly a MAD scheme would not work in this new Cold War we find ourselves in.

However, Mecca is not Damascus. It plays a central role in Muslim worship. Five times a day Muslims pray toward it. All Muslims who have the means are expected to make the Hajj--a pilgrimage to Mecca which revolves around the Kaaba stone. The Kaaba stone is really the reason Mecca is considered holy. Muslims believe the site was used for worship as far back as Adam and that the shrine around the stone was first placed there by Abraham (Ibrahim). There is a 12 mile zone around the stone that infidels are restricted from entering. It's that holy. No non-Muslims near it. In fact, without Mecca and the Kaaba stone, Islam would be very different.

Mecca, then, is quite unlike any other place in the world for Muslims. It is an entire city dedicated to Muslim worship. A place set apart. A holy place. It is an entire city that is thought to be the Temple of God.

Islamist terrorists also consider Mecca the holiest place in the world. It is central to their mode of worship. They face it when they pray. They too believe they must make the hajj. If we take them at their word, then the reason they commit terrorist acts is because they take their religious convictions so seriously. When they kill us, it is because they believe that this is what their God wants them to do.

So, ask yourself the question again: Can terrorists be deterred from using WMD against American targets?

Maybe they can. If Islamic extremists really love their religious institutions in the way that they claim they do, then pointing an ICBM at Mecca may not be the most irrational thing to do. They may not care if the rest of the world goes up in a nuclear mushroom cloud, as Bill points out, but Mecca is not the rest of the world. Would they really risk blowing up New York City if they believed the consequences of such an action would be a 30 kiloton nuclear explosion over the Kaaba stone? After all, the nuclear destruction of Mecca would end Islamic forms of worship as they presently exist.

If I might misquote Sting for a moment, "Is it such a crazy thing to do, if the Terrorists love their Mecca too?"

Second point: Why would destroying Mecca have potentially beneficial long-term affects to US and Occidental interests?

I have already made the case that Mecca is central to Islamic forms of worship. Mecca, I have argued, is a Temple City. Although many Muslim theologians will deny that any place is holy in Islam, there is at least a de facto holiness ascribed to the area surrounding the Kaaba stone. In many ways the city of Mecca is central to Islam in just the same way that the Temple of Solomon was central to ancient Judaism. It is this similarity which is so striking, and why the destruction of Mecca might do to Islam what the final destruction of Herod's Temple in Jerusalem did to Judaism. While the bloody events surrounding Rome's sacking of Jerusalem are indeed disgusting and tragic, that event forced Jews to rethink their relationship with God. More importantly, that event forced Jews to rethink their relationship with their fellowman.
Rusty Shackleford

Knoxville, TN

#3 Dec 22, 2011
Without wishing to reduce all of Jewish history or life to one paragraph, and thus leaving out the many facets of ancient Hebrew worship, let me go ahead an do that anyway (with many apologies up front--and welcoming any corrections or differing opinions). Ancient Judaism had a legal structure which was similar to Islamic sharia in that they both unify the religious codes thought to be handed down by God with secular authority. In fact, the Old Testament laws seem just as draconian as any I would find in sharia. There is just something about stoning adulteresses that I kind find of harsh, that's all. I know such applications of Mosaic law were probably rare, but Muslims would argue the same thing about the strict application of sharia law in the ideal Islamic state.

Ancient Judaism also had another commonality with Islam: worship was centered on a holy place of ritualistic practice. After the destruction of the Temple, though, Jews had to ask new questions about the meaning of being holy. Stateless, they found that strict religious codes of conduct could not be enforced in the same way as before. While the Jewish Diaspora had already begun the process of transforming Judaism, the final destruction of Temple centered worship forced this transformation on a broader scale.

Jews found that God no longer had a place to reside in. Jews found that they could no longer perform the rituals required by God to be purified. Jews found that they could no longer enforce God's law. Jews found that their specialness was different than they had previously supposed. Worship changed. Everything changed.

What I propose is simply this. Would destroying Mecca begin a similar process for Muslims? Perhaps only the threat of destroying Mecca would be enough.

Radical Muslims believe they are in a race to bring about the world wide Caliphate. They believe that Muslims are destined to rule the world. What I propose is simple: show them that they cannot rule the world. Show them that Allah is not on their side--at least, not in the way that they believe.

Osama bin Laden once famously said that people will choose the strong horse over the weak horse. What if Islam is shown to be the weak horse? What if one of the central tenants of Muslim worship, the hajj, was gone? Would this not force some serious rethinking in the Islamic world?

Today we are told by Muslims that the true meaning of jihad is internal struggle. Unfortunately, the actions of too many Muslims shows that they believe jihad means armed struggle against the infidels. Destroying Mecca may have the long-term affect of convincing radical Muslims that Allah really doesn't want sharia law around the world. That all that stuff about killing the infidels in the Quran--that's all metaphor.

After all, if Muslims can be convinced that the whole hajj thing is just metaphor, then what else might they consider as metaphorical? Perhaps jihad. Perhaps sharia. Perhaps the global Caliphate.
Rusty Shackleford

Knoxville, TN

#4 Dec 22, 2011
If we don't destroy Islam as an ideology it will exterminate us culturally and physically.

Islam is an utterly ruthless totalitarian political system disguised as a religion.

Islam will literally stop at nothing to achieve its objective of world domination, with all non-Muslims exterminated or enslaved.

Muslims who deny this are lying (Muslims are encouraged to tell lies to further the expansion of Islam).

Terrorism is an intrinsic and inseparable part of Islam.
dramah8r

Gallatin, TN

#5 Dec 22, 2011
You people are so f*cking ignorant and intolerant. I love the backwoods way of thinking that Christianity is the only way. A few radicals in one religion does not make the whole religion "terrorists". If that were the case then I guess the Christian Mormons who believe in marrying and raping 13 year old girls would make all Christians child molesters.

“You can't fix stupid”

Since: Sep 11

Neither here nor there

#6 Dec 22, 2011
Rusty..Rusty...Rusty.. You are definitely nuckin futz.
online predator

Greeneville, TN

#7 Dec 22, 2011
personally, i agree with you rusty. it doesn't have anything to do with Christianity, violents is all they understand. to bad they killed off Saddam Hussein. he was a prick, but he kept those religious fanatics in line. if the usa had to fight another war like WWII we would get our ass kicked because of all the political correctness.
ItsSad

Brentwood, TN

#8 Dec 23, 2011
but read the Koran. All of the killing and hate is there. I don't like it, but it comes down to us or them. Choices have to be made.
online predator

Greeneville, TN

#9 Dec 24, 2011
ItsSad wrote:
but read the Koran. All of the killing and hate is there. I don't like it, but it comes down to us or them. Choices have to be made.
you are absolutely correct. their bible teaches hate & violence.
hell yeah

Franklin, TN

#10 Dec 24, 2011
dramah8r wrote:
You people are so f*cking ignorant and intolerant. I love the backwoods way of thinking that Christianity is the only way. A few radicals in one religion does not make the whole religion "terrorists". If that were the case then I guess the Christian Mormons who believe in marrying and raping 13 year old girls would make all Christians child molesters.
no other religion cuts peoples heads off and beetas people the way islam does, if we as a society dont drive these people out of or country we get just what we deserve, beheadings car bombs and suicide bombers in this country, i say screw alliah and all those dang muslims, if i country aint so great the way it is why did they come here, give the perfect gift this year......a plane ticket back to their countries
constantine

Bangalore, India

#11 Mar 3, 2012
Agree with you dude....Saddam was not an angel ,but definitely worth continuing in Iraq............Its his absence that is more disturbing to the civilized world...Rusty is right on money with his arguments...Go Rusty...

“Zombie Sickopath”

Since: Jul 11

Hell

#12 Mar 3, 2012
Abrahamic religions in general have hate and intolerance in them.

Eh. Let them kill themselves. It'll be one helluva show.
Dude

Adrian, PA

#13 Mar 3, 2012
People should be very frightened at the rise of Islam across the world. When 9/11 happened, how many Islamic leaders abroad and here in the US stepped forward with condemnation of the act and to express their thoughts? You didn't hear a peep. Why? Because the vast majority of Muslims either agreed with what took place or in some way felt it was justified. Anyone interested in learning more about the rise of Islam should read 'America Alone' by Mark Steyn.
Muzzies go home

Scranton, PA

#14 Mar 3, 2012
Copy/paste this into google:

"Pennsylvania Judge Dismisses Case Against Muslim"

Im all for each religion to do as they please, but when Muslims can come to america, and violate my 1st amendment rights b/c they are "offended", well then that religion is officially a cancer on the USA. They need to leave or at the very least, some states need to ban muslims. Maybe Tennessee could lead the way?

If not then it wont be long before muslims move into your area, declare alcohol illegal because it offends them and now youre under sharia law.

I used to be a liberal wuss who thought it was ignorant to fear and dismiss other cultures and other people. Not anymore, lol! There are other cultures and other people that want you dead! HELLOOOOO!! Wake up people! Thanks Rusty! Long live Christian Americans!
Hank Hill

Nashville, TN

#15 Mar 3, 2012
Rusty, if you don't stop this silliness, I'm gonna kick your a@@! I'm gonna kick it harder if you don't come here.
Jesse

Fort Campbell, TN

#16 Mar 3, 2012
The fact of the matter is you can not just nuke somebody. End of Story.
cool kid

Jonesborough, TN

#17 Mar 6, 2012
ItsSad wrote:
but read the Koran. All of the killing and hate is there. I don't like it, but it comes down to us or them. Choices have to be made.
when you say "it comes down to us or them", then you are suggesting a holy war, just like the jihad. therefore, you are no better than the radical islamists (note that i said RADICAL, not regular Musilm people). also, one of the main goals of al-qaeda was to make the western world think that they are in a war with islam. now, unless you want to help al-qaeda achieve one of their main goals, i suggest you actually read the koran before you say that it is full of hate.
p.s. the bible has as much hate and violence as the koran. trust me, i have read both of them
Word

Nolensville, TN

#18 Mar 7, 2012
cool kid, I believe you are mistaken about the christian bible saying the same thing as the koran. I believe you have read bits and pieces of both to establish a coralation in YOUR mind. Rusty may be a little extreme in his writings but there is definately some truth behind his writings. Islam/Musilm is a cancer that has hit the U.S. because of our tolerance. How can such a tolerant nation condon such an intolerant religion. I'm for shiping many of the "radicals" outa here. I don't want to live amongst these people. This naton was founded on Christian principles not Islamic. Talk to some off our service people back from Iraq and Afghanastan. Get their opinions on Islam. They had to deal with it first hand.
sonofabush

Johnson City, TN

#19 Mar 7, 2012
Rusty Shackleford wrote:
In this post I make the case that nuking Mecca would be a rational deterrent to radical Islamists bent on using WMD against American civilians. However, even if there is no deterrent effect, attacking Mecca and wiping out the central locus of Islamic ritual worship may be in the long-term interests of the US and Occidental world.
Ace: "What would we do if we get nuked? Continue to 'hunt down the terrorists' who nuked us? At what point does the desire to survive outweigh the desire to be merciful and sparing in the use of force?"
Bill Whittle: "If a suitcase nuke detonates in Times Square, or Long Beach harbor, or outside the Capitol building, what do we do? Nuke Mecca? Incinerate Damascus? Because so help me God, I tremble to say it that is exactly the response our enemies would hope for. They care not a whit about their own people because they have no allegiance to anyone but themselves and their vision of a vengeful and bloodthirsty Allah."
In response to Bill Whittle and Ace's considerable thought on how you deter terrorists, I thought I'd add a couple of thoughts that have been ruminating between my ears for awhile now.
Let me make a couple of points first. One: I do not advocate using nuclear weapons. Two: I do not advocate killing Muslims or any other follower of any religion. Three: I do not imagine in any way possible the US government actually doing this--or even thinking it. Four: These are rudimentary thoughts. This post is used as a sounding board only. Much of what I say may be wrong and all is subject to revision. The purpose of this post is to start a conversation.
First point: Bill's major argument about deterring terrorists is well taken and mostly on the money. I think he's right, for the most part: you cannot deter these guys, only defeat them. And if incinerating Damascus were the only threat we could use to deter terrorists then certainly a MAD scheme would not work in this new Cold War we find ourselves in.
However, Mecca is not Damascus. It plays a central role in Muslim worship. Five times a day Muslims pray toward it. All Muslims who have the means are expected to make the Hajj--a pilgrimage to Mecca which revolves around the Kaaba stone. The Kaaba stone is really the reason Mecca is considered holy. Muslims believe the site was used for worship as far back as Adam and that the shrine around the stone was first placed there by Abraham (Ibrahim). There is a 12 mile zone around the stone that infidels are restricted from entering. It's that holy. No non-Muslims near it. In fact, without Mecca and the Kaaba stone, Islam would be very different.
Mecca, then, is quite unlike any other place in the world for Muslims. It is an entire city dedicated to Muslim worship. A place set apart. A holy place. It is an entire city that is thought to be the Temple of God.
Islamist terrorists also consider Mecca the holiest place in the world. It is central to their mode of worship. They face it when they pray. They too believe they must make the hajj. If we take them at their word, then the reason they commit terrorist acts is because they take their religious convictions so seriously. When they kill us, it is because they believe that this is what their God wants them to do.
Rusty the truth is you did not make any case at all. You just simply copied and pasted that crap from here http://www.truthandgrace.com/muslimnuke.htm . What a joke you are.
sonofabush

Johnson City, TN

#20 Mar 7, 2012
As a matter of fact he has copied every post that he made here. He is so dumb. I bet he does not even know what a comma is? Proves the point that most haters are dummy's, and followers at best.

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