Did Zimmerman shoot Martin in self defense?

Created by jimbo102 on Jul 9, 2013

186 votes

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Yes

NO

“I'M BACK.......SPORA DICALLY”

Since: Jun 12

BUFFALO, NY

#169 Jul 13, 2013
Les Beinn wrote:
I meant to add that after the people who make their living off racial division(Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton) went to Sanford and brought the news media with them, Zimmerman would have been smart to turn the 9mm on himself, because his life also ended that day. It has been a reverse lynching.
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn! Read my post #2 on this thread--still applies.
Ttt

Schenectady, NY

#170 Jul 13, 2013
Les Beinn wrote:
<quoted text>The defense doesn't have to prove anything. Where is the evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, that proves Zimmerman started the fight? Evidence, not your opinion. We don't convict people based on what you think happened.
Ok and usually you don't walk away after you murdered someone just on the claim that it was self defense. The defense does have to prove that it was self defense. How do you come to the conclusion that the defense doesn't have to prove anything? Why is a trial being held then?
Hmm

Jonesborough, TN

#171 Jul 13, 2013
Ttt wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok and usually you don't walk away after you murdered someone just on the claim that it was self defense. The defense does have to prove that it was self defense. How do you come to the conclusion that the defense doesn't have to prove anything? Why is a trial being held then?
Because of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. If Zimmerman was black there would be no trial.
Nobody

United States

#172 Jul 13, 2013
Les Beinn wrote:
<quoted text>You are also stupid. Where is the evidence that Zimmerman started a fight? Evidence, not what you think. Evidence.
if someone was following you wouldn't you ask them what the hell they were doing. That is what TM did, Zimmerman ran his mouth and they got in a fight. Plain and simple. It's obvious, have you never gotten into a fight? Everyone knows that's the way this went down. Even if it wasn't completely that way. The fact is he was following this man for no reason. Anyone with any sand would say something about it. TM did not have a weapon, he was not following Zimmerman, he was not breaking into anyones home, he simply stood up for himself. They got into a fight and Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked (which he should have) so he pulled a gun and shot him. If he wasn't carrying a gun to start with he wouldn't have been following him, bc he wouldn't have had the guts. He thought about having the gun if anything went wrong. Tell me I'm not right!
Les Beinn

Greeneville, TN

#173 Jul 13, 2013
Ttt wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok and usually you don't walk away after you murdered someone just on the claim that it was self defense. The defense does have to prove that it was self defense. How do you come to the conclusion that the defense doesn't have to prove anything? Why is a trial being held then?
The defense does NOT have to prove it was self defense. All it has to do is show that there is a reasonable doubt that it wasn't second degree murder or manslaughter. The prosecution has to prove that it was second degree murder or manslaughter, beyond a reasonable doubt, and that it was not self defense. Read up on the law.

I have no idea what happened, because I wasn't there. How can you be sure what went down? Were you there? One thing that shows reasonable doubt to me was that Zimmerman got the crap beat out of him. Prove to me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he attacked Martin first. It is possible, but where is the evidence of that?

There is an eyewitness that puts Martin on top of Zimmerman before the shot. Why would the guy on top(Martin), beating the crap out of the other guy(Zimmerman), cry for help? The guy winning the fight at that point is not going to scream for help. The guy getting beat up would.

Why would Zimmerman kill somebody, unless he feared for his life, if he knew the cops were on the way? The murderer usually doesn't notify the cops beforehand. Reasonable doubt. Read up on the law, not what you feel.
Les Beinn

Greeneville, TN

#174 Jul 13, 2013
Nobody wrote:
<quoted text>if someone was following you wouldn't you ask them what the hell they were doing. That is what TM did, Zimmerman ran his mouth and they got in a fight. Plain and simple. It's obvious, have you never gotten into a fight? Everyone knows that's the way this went down. Even if it wasn't completely that way. The fact is he was following this man for no reason. Anyone with any sand would say something about it. TM did not have a weapon, he was not following Zimmerman, he was not breaking into anyones home, he simply stood up for himself. They got into a fight and Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked (which he should have) so he pulled a gun and shot him. If he wasn't carrying a gun to start with he wouldn't have been following him, bc he wouldn't have had the guts. He thought about having the gun if anything went wrong. Tell me I'm not right!
Maybe you are, but maybe you aren't. I have a reasonable doubt. I am not sure enough to send a man to jail based on no evidence.

First of all, it is not illegal to follow someone. Secondly, it is not illegal to carry a gun if you have a carry permit. Thirdly, a person has an absolute right to defend himself, if he fears for his life. Now, if you can PROVE to me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman attacked Martin first, I might think differently. You THINK that Zimmerman attacked martin first. Prove it to me beyond a reasonable doubt, in other words that is the ONLY way it could have gone down. You do not have the right to attack someone just because you think you are being followed.

I will say that it should not have happened, and that probably nothing would have happened if Zimmerman wasn't armed. Neither person was doing anything illegal until the first blow was struck. I don't know who did that beyond a reasonable doubt. Show me the proof.

Since: Jan 11

Greeneville TN

#175 Jul 13, 2013
The jury has questioned clarification on the instructions for the verdict of manslaughter. They MAY be past 2nd degree. I have said and still say manslaughter should be the proper verdict. I don't believe Z went out intending to kill, but his actions are not justifiable.
Les Beinn

Greeneville, TN

#176 Jul 13, 2013
MystDefy wrote:
The jury has questioned clarification on the instructions for the verdict of manslaughter. They MAY be past 2nd degree. I have said and still say manslaughter should be the proper verdict. I don't believe Z went out intending to kill, but his actions are not justifiable.
How can you be SURE, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he was not in fear for his life? Where is the evidence? I know that you feel that he should pay for killing Martin, but what if it went down EXACTLY like Zimmerman said? Would you feel comfortable knowing that you put a man in jail for 30 years, based on what you THINK happened, not what you KNOW happened?
Les Beinn

Greeneville, TN

#177 Jul 13, 2013
If you don't think that the fix is in to convict Zimmerman, google the name Ben Kruidbos. He is a whistle blower who was an IT worker for the State of Florida. He was recently fired for coming forward with cell phone pictures recovered from Martin's phone, which the prosecutor withheld from Zimmerman's defense team. Kruidbos came forward and properly notified the Zimmerman defense team of the evidence, and was promptly fired. There will be an appeal if Zimmerman is convicted.

Since: Jan 11

Greeneville TN

#178 Jul 13, 2013
Les Beinn wrote:
<quoted text>How can you be SURE, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he was not in fear for his life? Where is the evidence? I know that you feel that he should pay for killing Martin, but what if it went down EXACTLY like Zimmerman said? Would you feel comfortable knowing that you put a man in jail for 30 years, based on what you THINK happened, not what you KNOW happened?
I can be SURE no better than you can be SURE, but I AM SURE that I am not only DONE arguing this case on here, just simply reporting from live coverage, but especially SURE that neither I nor you nor anyone else on Topix is going to have a hand in convicting or exonerating Zimmerman. So how about giving your fingers a rest and the jury do it's job?
Les Beinn

Greeneville, TN

#180 Jul 13, 2013
MystDefy wrote:
<quoted text> I can be SURE no better than you can be SURE, but I AM SURE that I am not only DONE arguing this case on here, just simply reporting from live coverage, but especially SURE that neither I nor you nor anyone else on Topix is going to have a hand in convicting or exonerating Zimmerman. So how about giving your fingers a rest and the jury do it's job?
Fine by me. I am not sure of how it went down. That is what constitutes reasonable doubt. I am sorry that you seem to have taken offense at my freedom of expression. I thought from reading some of your other posts that you were above that.

Since: Jan 11

Greeneville TN

#181 Jul 13, 2013
Les Beinn wrote:
<quoted text>Fine by me. I am not sure of how it went down. That is what constitutes reasonable doubt. I am sorry that you seem to have taken offense at my freedom of expression. I thought from reading some of your other posts that you were above that.
I'm sorry for being abrupt. I respect your demeanor and your passion. I'm just over the lack of respect that has been extended to my OPINIONS and my right to express them. That had not come from you however and so again, my apologies. I debated even adding what i had learned from the coverage but thought it would be interesting to those who cared.

Since: Jan 11

Greeneville TN

#182 Jul 13, 2013
I pride myself on my ability to maintain my composure, which is the first rule of thoughtful debate. After all, once emotion enters, objectiveness, logic and flexibility typically takes its leave. It is for that reason that i simply do not respond at all to those who insult and attack in place of productive counterpoint.
Good deal

Greeneville, TN

#183 Jul 13, 2013
A dead black an a Latino going to jail, win win situation for a white man...lol

Since: Jan 11

Greeneville TN

#184 Jul 13, 2013
MystDefy wrote:
I pride myself on my ability to maintain my composure, which is the first rule of thoughtful debate. After all, once emotion enters, objectiveness, logic and flexibility typically takes its leave. It is for that reason that i simply do not respond at all to those who insult and attack in place of productive counterpoint.
Just for clarity, Les, this is not aimed at you. You are obviously not an "attacker".
Les Beinn

Greeneville, TN

#185 Jul 13, 2013
MystDefy wrote:
<quoted text> Just for clarity, Les, this is not aimed at you. You are obviously not an "attacker".
I am trying to not say anything, because I don't like being misunderstood.
Hmm

Jonesborough, TN

#186 Jul 13, 2013
MystDefy wrote:
<quoted text> Just for clarity, Les, this is not aimed at you. You are obviously not an "attacker".
I believe you found a tiger in Les. She seems smarter than the average poster.
Hmm

Jonesborough, TN

#187 Jul 13, 2013
Les Beinn wrote:
<quoted text>I am trying to not say anything, because I don't like being misunderstood.
I like this comment.
Ttt

Schenectady, NY

#188 Jul 13, 2013
Les Beinn wrote:
<quoted text>The defense does NOT have to prove it was self defense. All it has to do is show that there is a reasonable doubt that it wasn't second degree murder or manslaughter. The prosecution has to prove that it was second degree murder or manslaughter, beyond a reasonable doubt, and that it was not self defense. Read up on the law.
I have no idea what happened, because I wasn't there. How can you be sure what went down? Were you there? One thing that shows reasonable doubt to me was that Zimmerman got the crap beat out of him. Prove to me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he attacked Martin first. It is possible, but where is the evidence of that?
There is an eyewitness that puts Martin on top of Zimmerman before the shot. Why would the guy on top(Martin), beating the crap out of the other guy(Zimmerman), cry for help? The guy winning the fight at that point is not going to scream for help. The guy getting beat up would.
Why would Zimmerman kill somebody, unless he feared for his life, if he knew the cops were on the way? The murderer usually doesn't notify the cops beforehand. Reasonable doubt. Read up on the law, not what you feel.
GZ killed T. Martin. GZ admitted to killing him in self defense. You prove that GZ was In danger of being killed with a 17 year old's hands, as T. Martin was unarmed. GZ was instructed not to follow T. Martin and he did follow him. GZ got himself into a situation that he could've avoided simply if he didn't persue the "victim". Prove he did follow instructions and avoided the entire event in which he ended up murdering a 17 year old. It is a fact that GZ wouldn't have ended up shooting T.Martin if he never had the encounter that he initiated. It is a fact that he confronted T. Martin and the end of that confrontation was fatal for T. Martin. It is a fact that the two of them never had to meet.
Les Beinn

Greeneville, TN

#189 Jul 13, 2013
Verdict reached.

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