Watchman

Elizabethtown, KY

#61 May 8, 2009
that what's a legitimate argument? that God knowingly allows people to be born that He knows will go to hell?

Key word is that He "allows" people to be born. He doesn't create people anymore. He does out the breath of life in them, though. Adam was the only one that He actually "created" and then removed Eve from his side. The rest of us come from pro-creation, or by choice of the parents. Another free-will thing. God has to "allow" them to be born or He isn't righteous and fair. If you foreknew that your child was going to be a murderer, would you allow them to be born and deny them the chance for life? It's actually simple. For the life of me I can't see why you don't see that. It's as hard as you make it, I guess.
KDC

Roosevelt, OK

#62 May 8, 2009
xJustJohnx wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll answer your question now, no I don't believe in mythological characters or people who have claimed to be god or a god, these "gods" have nothing in common with the one true God, YHWH. This question is a typical baited question from the Richard Dawkins handbook.
And so are all of your answers to my other questions, which I really wasn't asking you to answer, but thanks for at least answering them, even though I had your answers right in front of me on another atheist forum....
You believe in ET the extra terrestrial, but you have facts that there is no God.....mmmm ok, thanks for playing.
Again you are accusing people of baiting you into something when that is not th case. We are not baiting you to slip up and I actually respect you for being so strong on your beliefs even though i don't have the same. Saying your god is the one true god is unbelievable. All the gods mentioned are either now or at one time believed to be their god.
Watchman

Elizabethtown, KY

#63 May 8, 2009
You forget that God actually gives all people born a "life" here on earth. It's your choice what you do with it. Whether or not they go to hell or heaven is a choice. So either you deny them a possible blessed rich life while they are here where they can help multitudes of people or become evil and maybe kill multitudes of people. It rains on the just and the unjust. God blesses good works, whether from the saved or from the unsaved. They are still "all" His children. But it is still their own individual choice whether or not they wish to accept Christ and have an eternal reward of life with God or an eternal life of separation from God. And hell is not the final place, it also gets thrown into the lake of fire, but you already knew that since you've read the bible. Satan is not the ruler of hell nor will it be one big party of unbelievers where they will continue to party as they have while they were alive on earth.

I believe that is your biggest misunderstanding, in that God doesn't "create" every person that is born. He created Adam and the rest are by choice.
KDC

Roosevelt, OK

#64 May 8, 2009
xJustJohnx wrote:
<quoted text>I knew you wasn't an atheist, at least not a very good atheist. I think that you are just a skeptic, as I am, you might ask yourself; What? a Christian that's a skeptic...how can that be?
I am a skeptic in the real since of the word skeptic from the greek; to look, consider.
Does not the Bible say to "seek" and you shall find? I'm not skeptical about God, He has revealed Himself to me, but I am very skeptical about religion, and hidden agenda's behind religion, and religious organizations.
Does the religion of man make God a bad deal? No, I would say, first you need to find the TRUTH, easiest way to do that is forget everything you know about religion, and seek God Himself, forget the baptists, the methodist, the catholics, the pentecostal's, the nazarene's etc etc.
Forget that there has in fact been people that have done atrocities in the name of their religions. People have always screwed everything up, is this God's fault? If He set the world in motion, and gave everyone freewill, then He has to set back and let whatever happens, happen until the end.
When your children leave your home (if they haven't already) they will no longer be under your small umbrella of safety and rule that you have at your home, if one child goes out and becomes a great giving loving world changing person that's great, but what if one goes out and becomes a murderer, is that a direct reflection of YOU, are you a horrible sadistic person for raising that child to be a murderer? No. We all have choices, period.
Don't throw God under the bus because of people who have been pillaging this earth since the beginning. And don't think that you are very much smarter than anyone else cause you attended a college, there is a fine line between a genius and idiot.
This is a really good post John. You made some really good points. I always say if there really is a god I don't think any religion has got it right yet.

“and a happy atheist, too!”

Since: Mar 09

Staffordsville, KY

#65 May 8, 2009
Ah hell, the kids are in bed so why not.(By the way, I've added numbers to the questions to make it easier to associate the proper answer with each question, and I've also broken this down to two posts.)
xJustJohnx wrote:
Here;s some questions for you:
1. Do you believe in UFO's, or ghosts?
2. If you're an atheist and you are absolutely positive that God doesn't exist...why do you spend so much time on this board talking about Him?
3. What was in the beginning?
4. How will life on earth end?
5. What happens after death?
6. What is the purpose of existence?
7. Why is there order in all of creation?
8. Why is there morality in every civilization?
9. Why does every civilization believe in a Creator?
10. Why does every sane person have a conscience, even when it is not dictated by society?
11. How did nothing create everything?
12. Which came first...the chicken or the egg?
See anyone can ask questions. You never answer anyone, but you ask lots of questions that you know nothing about.
"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." - 1 John 4:8
1. UFOs? Really? Well, I'm sure there's things people see but can not idenitify which technically would classify as UFOs (and then probably realize was just the neighbor's frisbee), but I sense you're asking if there's a belief that little green men are coming to earth? In that case, No. I do not believe alien life has visited earth. However, I believe there's a possibility that on one of the many other planets in some other universe way out there that life has evolved to some degree. I do not believe we have made, nor may we ever actually make, contact with such life forms, however. Ghosts are another silly superstition - like black cats and broken mirrors causing bad luck. It's fun to pretend, but it's not actually real.

2. Atheists and Agnostics participate in religion based discussion because even though we do not believe (or believe it is impossible to know if) God exists, we are affected by those who DO believe gods exist and their ability to inject their religion into society.

3. Good question, and you know what? I'm not sure. And I'm okay with not knowing. I don't need to have the answers to everything in life. However, just because I don't have another option doesn't mean "Goddidit". That type of argument is known as the "God of the gaps" argument.. Basically saying "Well we don't have another answer, so it must've been God." People used to believe that plagues were caused by God. But now we know that it's poor sanitation and hygiene practices that causes a disease to spread.. Not a god or goddess. In case that needs clarification, what I'm saying is that a lack of evidence for an alternative is not proof for a diety. So while "I just don't know" isn't the answer for me, for now, there very well could come a day when we will know. It may be in my lifetime, it may not.

4. Again, nobody knows. A meteor could strike us down in a hundred years, or a plague could knock us out in a million years. War, famine, the sun imploding or exploding.. Nobody knows.

“and a happy atheist, too!”

Since: Mar 09

Staffordsville, KY

#66 May 8, 2009
5. My 5 year old can answer this. "Your heart stops. Then they put you in the ground, and everybody cries for a while."

6. All living things have a biological desire to reproduce and pass on their genes in order to continue the existance of the species. Outside of that there isn't any purpose.

7. I seem to remember being taught about this in my grade school science lessons, but perhaps you missed that day. It all really boils down to survival of the fittest, and adaptation... to put it in simple terms.

8. Religion does not corner the market on morality. If anything, religion is often violent. Consider suicide bombers, "jihad", the crusades, the spanish inquisition. Even supporters of the War in Iraq cite it's being a "quest from God". Consider people like Andrea Yates, who believed God ordered her to drown her 5 children, or the young man who was studying to become a pastor that put his infant son in a microwave to "rid him of demons." Even the Abrahamic god has a death toll of more than 33 million on his hands according to the Bible. All 3 of the major Abrahamic religions, as well as many other religions from the world over, are misogynistic and violent, advocating rape, murder, and slavery.

9. The popularity of an idea doesn't make it proof. It used to be popular to believe the world was flat, and that the Earth was the center of the solar system and the sun and moon revolved around us rather than the other way around. Even though the idea was popular, it wasn't actually true. That said, not all civilizations in the history of the world have believed in a creator (and especially not a single creator).

10. Again, during the process of actually becoming homo sapiens, our ancestors figured out that working together as a team was more beneficial than wasting time and energy killing each other. Eventually, we evolved into social creatures with higher reasoning that causes us to fear the consequences of unacceptable behavior.

11. Good question. But again this is the God of the Gaps argument. Not knowing doesn't mean "Goddidit". And if I may be so bold... if something can not come from nothing, then who created God?

12. The egg, and it contained a genetic mutation that eventually led to the chicken.:)

“and a happy atheist, too!”

Since: Mar 09

Staffordsville, KY

#67 May 8, 2009
Darn, I'm not sure what happened but the first part of that just got completely disappeared.. here it is again:

By the way, I've added numbers to the questions to make it easier to associate the proper answer with each question, and I've also broken this down to two posts.)
xJustJohnx wrote:
Here;s some questions for you:
1. Do you believe in UFO's, or ghosts?
2. If you're an atheist and you are absolutely positive that God doesn't exist...why do you spend so much time on this board talking about Him?
3. What was in the beginning?
4. How will life on earth end?
5. What happens after death?
6. What is the purpose of existence?
7. Why is there order in all of creation?
8. Why is there morality in every civilization?
9. Why does every civilization believe in a Creator?
10. Why does every sane person have a conscience, even when it is not dictated by society?
11. How did nothing create everything?
12. Which came first...the chicken or the egg?
See anyone can ask questions. You never answer anyone, but you ask lots of questions that you know nothing about.
"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." - 1 John 4:8
1. UFOs? Really? Well, I'm sure there's things people see but can not idenitify which technically would classify as UFOs (and then probably realize was just the neighbor's frisbee), but I sense you're asking if there's a belief that little green men are coming to earth? In that case, No. I do not believe alien life has visited earth. However, I believe there's a possibility that on one of the many other planets in some other universe way out there that life has evolved to some degree. I do not believe we have made, nor may we ever actually make, contact with such life forms, however. Ghosts are another silly superstition - like black cats and broken mirrors causing bad luck. It's fun to pretend, but it's not actually real.

2. Atheists and Agnostics participate in religion based discussion because even though we do not believe (or believe it is impossible to know if) God exists, we are affected by those who DO believe gods exist and their ability to inject their religion into society.

3. Good question, and you know what? I'm not sure. And I'm okay with not knowing. I don't need to have the answers to everything in life. However, just because I don't have another option doesn't mean "Goddidit". That type of argument is known as the "God of the gaps" argument.. Basically saying "Well we don't have another answer, so it must've been God." People used to believe that plagues were caused by God. But now we know that it's poor sanitation and hygiene practices that causes a disease to spread.. Not a god or goddess. In case that needs clarification, what I'm saying is that a lack of evidence for an alternative is not proof for a diety. So while "I just don't know" isn't the answer for me, for now, there very well could come a day when we will know. It may be in my lifetime, it may not.

4. Again, nobody knows. A meteor could strike us down in a hundred years, or a plague could knock us out in a million years. War, famine, the sun imploding or exploding.. Nobody knows.
Watchman

Campbellsville, KY

#68 May 8, 2009
1. Do you believe in UFO's, or ghosts?

yes

2. If you're an atheist and you are absolutely positive that God doesn't exist...why do you spend so much time on this board talking about Him?

N/A

3. What was in the beginning?

God. remember, God is a spirit and not "made" of anything

4. How will life on earth end?

It will never end

5. What happens after death?

We will either be with God for eternity or separated from Him for eternity

6. What is the purpose of existence?

To try our hearts to answer question 5

7. Why is there order in all of creation?

God is a God of order

8. Why is there morality in every civilization?

God gave us choice and choice dictates the morality of a person

9. Why does every civilization believe in a Creator?

The born with need to return back to where we came from. for example - the salmon returning to their birth streams.

10. Why does every sane person have a conscience, even when it is not dictated by society?

We are created with a knowledge of right and wrong which our spirit leads us in. The soul and flesh battle against it.

11. How did nothing create everything?

Good question for science :-)

12. Which came first...the chicken or the egg?

The chicken.

I would have posted verses for each one but I didn't feel like it...lol

“and a happy atheist, too!”

Since: Mar 09

Staffordsville, KY

#69 May 8, 2009
You know. I think it says something when you can answer all of life's questions in under 10 words each without providing any tangible evidence for any of it.
gosh

Greenup, KY

#70 May 8, 2009
look ive told u all he makes his gf eat eggs so he can smell her farts he is pastey white from no sunlight and smells like cheese. why are u worshiping him.
Watchman

Campbellsville, KY

#71 May 8, 2009
HappyKentuckian wrote:
You know. I think it says something when you can answer all of life's questions in under 10 words each without providing any tangible evidence for any of it.
ain't it though? life really is simple.

gosh.... who you talking about??

“and a happy atheist, too!”

Since: Mar 09

Staffordsville, KY

#72 May 8, 2009
Watchman wrote:
<quoted text>
ain't it though? life really is simple.
gosh.... who you talking about??
No.. Not that life is simple. Life is not at all simple. Rather, I think it says your answers are made up.
Watchman

Ashland, KY

#73 May 8, 2009
life is as simple as you make it. I could answer all 12 questions with 5 posts of answers but in the end they would say what I said in the simple answers. You, my friend, don't know what life is truly about

Aren't all our answers made up by our own definitions of what we think life is?

If you had read any of my posts from any of the other threads you would know why I answer the way I did. I believe I have already answered them in depth on other posts. Hey, I'm a Christian and a teacher of life. What kind of answers did you expect?
Watchman

Ashland, KY

#74 May 8, 2009
Codename.... is that you?

“and a happy atheist, too!”

Since: Mar 09

Staffordsville, KY

#75 May 9, 2009
Watchman wrote:
life is as simple as you make it. I could answer all 12 questions with 5 posts of answers but in the end they would say what I said in the simple answers. You, my friend, don't know what life is truly about
Aren't all our answers made up by our own definitions of what we think life is?
If you had read any of my posts from any of the other threads you would know why I answer the way I did. I believe I have already answered them in depth on other posts. Hey, I'm a Christian and a teacher of life. What kind of answers did you expect?
If you believe life is simple, then you're really missing all the good parts of it.
late night in the City

Broken Arrow, OK

#76 May 9, 2009
Sounds like using god as an endpoint well before the science has stopped discovering.
Watchman

Ashland, KY

#77 May 9, 2009
Science hasn't even scratched the surface of what God has ALREADY done :-)

Why on earth would I want to make life complicated? You think it takes the complicated things to make life good?? And you think I'm strange...lol

“and a happy atheist, too!”

Since: Mar 09

Staffordsville, KY

#78 May 9, 2009
Watchman wrote:
Science hasn't even scratched the surface of what God has ALREADY done :-)
Why on earth would I want to make life complicated? You think it takes the complicated things to make life good?? And you think I'm strange...lol
You came up with complicated on your own, I never once said life should be complicated. But life is complex. When you simplify everything to "Goddidit", you miss out on the really interesting details that are under the surface.
Watchman

Russell, KY

#79 May 9, 2009
You said it wasn't simple, implying that it is complicated. But as I said, the "interesting details" aren't what drives me. It's the beauty of simply observing creation and enjoying it. I ain't a scientist so I don't spend my time looking through a microscope. A flower is beautiful and I don't have to know it's molecular makeup to enjoy the simplicity of it's beauty.
late night in the City

Broken Arrow, OK

#80 May 9, 2009
A god that can create the universe from nothing would be infinitely more complex than anything we observe in the universe today.

Beauty has nothing to do with it, if we understand how something works/grows then we can use it to our advantage even better. How do you think that a lot of modern medicines are discovered? By studying how chemicals in plants work.

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