Former members of Sheperds Chapel
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#387 Dec 22, 2010
Extra People Making It On the Ark?

Pastor Murray used to talk about "Noah's little old flood" and like Dr. Murray, I used to believe the flood was not world-wide and that was how Cain's descendants got through the flood. Then he brought in this trash idea that, "It was 8 Adamic Souls on the Ark." For one, Cain was "Adamic." Eve was taken out of Adam and Cain was the son of Eve, correct? So Cain is a descendant of Adam, even if Satan was his Dad. So that whole bunch of garbage about other "kinds" of "souls" getting on the ark ought to be discarded as such. The souls of men are one "kind" in the bible. Pastor Murray has introduced much fiction into the scriptures.

Are The Kenites of Chronicles Descendants of the Same Cain from Genesis?

There easily may have been more than one person with that name (Cain). Being called Kenites does not mean they are the sons of that Cain. Especially when the original sons of Cain were wiped out by the flood.

Frankly, the only real "benefit" which I have ever seen of knowing, "who the Kenites are," is that knowledge makes many people prejudiced against Jews and assuming they are "Kenites." I know that is not explicitly what Pastor Murray teaches but that is what it does to many Shepherd's Chapel students I have known. Dr. Murray frequently emphasizes how important this doctrine is; it is the subject of his free, "Mark of the Beast" tape, but it is not even a biblical doctrine.

I know some people are going to object and say the Jews are "our dear brother Judah," but you are not a very thorough student of the Shepherd's Chapel, read on.
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#388 Dec 22, 2010
4."Teaching on Three Levels," Just Who Is, "Our Dear Brother Judah?"

As I said, I listened to just about everything Dr. Murray was saying back the late 80's and 90's. I doubt much has changed. Dr. Murray only has a few notes to toot while constantly alluding to that, "deeper level." I bought all those tapes because I thought somewhere I would find the "deeper level" teachings plainly laid out for the advanced students. Maybe even stuff that would help me get out of my sins! The "deeper truth" is actually simply possessing the full understanding of what Pastor Murray is talking about when he gets vague. "A word to the wise is sufficient."

This is an example of something Dr. Murray has said: "The Kenites have given our dear brother Judah a bad name." Translation: "The people who are commonly called Jews have given the German race a bad name." If you don't get that, then you have not been a very attentive student. Like I said, I've heard ALL the tapes. If you walk up to him and ask him that, I am guessing he will deny it, because he will think you are a heretic-hawk or something, he is very careful to keep a lid on that sort of a statement (a word to the wise is sufficient). I heard him say on several occasions that the true tribe of Judah is Germany, and if you don't know who the Kenites are... you haven't gone very deep with Dr. Arnold Murray (Hint: the Kenites are the Jews). He has made statements about them really finding "little ovens" after WW2 instead of "big" ones (I've heard him minimize the Holocaust in such a manner, but I've never heard him actually deny it).

But really, there is not a whole lot of deeper stuff than what is written in that awful, "Discovering God's "Natural" Truth," kids' book. Eve and Satan had a son together (Cain) who was a fraternal twin with Abel (Adam's son). The sons of Cain survived the flood, and eventually supplanted the real Jews/Israelites (the white Northwestern European race) by infiltrating the priesthood etc., and, of course, they crucified Christ, and are a scourge on humanity until this day. A word to the wise is sufficient. I burned that "Natural Truth" book in a fire at church last June. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#389 Dec 22, 2010
5. Are White Folks Really the True Israelites?

The doctrine that goes hand in hand with, "the Jews are the Devil's Children." Is the doctrine that white people are Israelites really important? I had a pureblooded Italian student tell me that he was an Israelite; I didn't have the heart (back then) to tell him the "truth," Italians are definitely "gentiles" [I'm actually 1/4 Italian]. This doctrine is based on scriptures which say that God would send Israel North etc. etc. But the scriptures also say that they would be left few in number and that they would be swallowed up by the heathen. Dr. Murray tries to teach that the Israelites went out swallowing nations and not the reverse, that is wrong. Some sermons were preached at my church on this subject, check out:

August 20 2006 - Swallowed Up the demise of Israel

I do believe that many people are distantly related to the lost tribes (Not just related to the Jews, but I do mean related to the lost tribes of the Israelites), but it is not just white folks, they are Blacks, Chinese, and it is written that they were scattered into every nation. But even if I was a "pure blood" Israelite, I do not see how that is important since we now have Christ and a better covenant than the Israelites did. Why go back to the beggarly elements?
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#390 Dec 22, 2010
6. "God Doesn't Really Care About Your Little Old Sexual Sins"

Speaking of deep things, how about the depths of Satan? I remember very clearly Pastor Murray once saying, "God Doesn't Really Care About Your Little Old Sexual Sins," but that what he really cares about is spiritual adultery. I.e. what god are you going to worship? The scripture teaches that whosoever commits sin is of the Devil. So, sinning in any form is rebellion against God, sin has to stop, that is what Jesus came into the world to do, to save us from our sins. Dr. Murray's teaching is light on righteousness, in fact, Dr. Murray has said that anyone who says they are righteous is a hypocrite.

Arnold Murray Creates Room for Sin - At the time, Pastor Murray's statement about sexual sins gave me a great deal of comfort in my sexual sins, God didn't really care about that. Whenever teaching and I would come across passages about fornication or adultery, I would emphasize the idea of spiritual adultery as being "worse." The same thing with drinking; "spiritual drunkenness was "worse," that was the fruit of Dr. Murray in me. The reality is that literal fornication is spiritual adultery from the ways of God and walking after Jesus Christ, Dr. Murray's teaching leaves room for people to continue in sin so long as it is not, "habitual sin" (whatever that means). Esau's rejecting of his birthright was not an "habitual sin" but he still was rejected and found no place for repentance though he sought it, "carefully" and, "with tears." (Hebrews 12:17) The Bible never speaks of "habitual" sins. Willful sins, yes. Committing sins, yes. Habitual sins, no.
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#391 Dec 22, 2010
7. Dr. Murray and the "Great Doctrine of the Trinity"

Trinitarianism is one of the cornerstones of the Apostate Church (Orthodoxy). Some people have tried to peg Dr. Murray as anti-Trinitarian; he certainly used to think he was and sure acted like it. But even back when I was listening to him, he had begun to cozy up with the Trinity, referring to it as, "the great doctrine of the Trinity." This one honestly makes me sick, Arnold Murray doesn't believe in the Trinity any more than I do; but he doesn't want to say so publicly for fear of losing many people.

He wants to have it both ways. He wants to call his doctrine "the Trinity," but his "three offices" doctrine, is not a Trinitarian way of explaining God. Trinitarianism is "Team God," as a baseball team has nine players but one team, "team God" has three persons but one "God." With the Trinity, basically, the idea of God is a mere unifying semantic designation given to three different guys. For example: the '85 Bears, Payton is Bears, Dent is Bears, Singletary is Bears, but there is really only one "Bears," that is the Trinity in a nutshell. Trinitarianism is: one office (God) three persons (Father Son and Spirit) Dr. Murray's is (though he is not very clear on it) one person; three offices. Both are wrong,(2008/08 Editorial comment: to continue the sports analogy, humorously, Dr. Murray's doctrine is like this: Bo knows baseball, Bo knows Football, and Bo knows Basketball) "Three Offices" are as unscriptural as "Three Persons."

Here is some food for thought:

In John Chapter 17 Jesus expresses His desire that we may be one as He and the Father are one, if Trinitarianism was true then we would be joining the Trinity. "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:... that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one "

Think about it... Who, in the Trinity, was Jesus father? "The Father," you say? The how come the scriptures say of Mary, "she was found with child of the HOLY GHOST." Matthew 1:18,20 Think about it...

Anyway, there are lots of good reasons to reject the Trinity. I'll just say that I like to describe God and the Son of God using only the scriptures. That is good enough for me and for anyone. Speaking of the Holy Ghost...
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#392 Dec 22, 2010
8. Pastor Murray is Wrong About Tongues

I used to walk people through 1 Corinthians 14 and demonstrate (emphatically) how it was only talking about people being skilled at different languages and regulating their use. The only problem is that it just doesn't make much sense.

O.K., for one, if you don't know it already, on March 21st 2005 the spirit of God came on me with a real power which I could actually feel and this was evidenced by the speaking in tongues as the spirit gave utterance. I was not looking for tongues, I wanted God to help me stop sinning, and He did, and does, but I got the tongues thing too.

In this section I would like to point out a few things to you bible students about 1 Corinthians 14.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Did you catch that? If I am praying in Spanish, because I can speak Spanish, why would I have to pray to "interpret," for my own benefit, my own prayer? Why wouldn't I have fruitful understanding if the language is known to me and I can speak it?

Why would anyone be tempted to have foreign language speakers speak when no one in the room understands them? Unless, it is because they are speaking, "in the spirit," and not in a normal foreign language, and doing so might have seemed like a very spiritual thing to do. I can see that temptation, someone gets the Holy Ghost and now they want to stand up and address the Church in tongues. Paul says, "No." I simply cannot imagine someone who only spoke Chinese walking into an English-only church and addressing the church in Chinese without an interpreter. it doesn't seem like something that people would try to do and need to be corrected over.

Why should I pray to interpret my own prayer? If I know the language and can interpret it why not just pray in the language people understand. It doesn't make sense. Unless, you understand speaking with tongues to be the new and bizarre spiritual exercise that it was, then one can readily imagine why the Apostle would dedicate a whole chapter advising how to deal with it.
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#393 Dec 22, 2010
Do we think that people had never had to deal with foreign languages before? In my life I have never been somewhere where they had a foreign language speaker addressing a group of people who did not understand him. It would be madness, so would having someone get up and do so "in the spirit," but because of the novelty of "tongues," I can imagine it.

1 Corinthians 14 makes no sense to me, reading it thinking it is giving advise on dealing with folks who speak foreign languages. None at all. What does it mean to "bless with the spirit?" Verses, say blessing with the understanding? Or, "sing with the spirit," verses, "sing with the understanding"? How do you do that. I know how.

Ok, Mr. Stringini, but how about Pentecost Day? Hmmm? Indeed, on that day, it was said that the hearers understood them in their own languages from the very towns in which they were born, and that was a miracle, it was a very special day, but why would the Apostle Paul later tell us to pray "that we may interpret?" I believe some of the speakers may not have understood what they were saying or what was happening themselves, at first. If we look at the times, later on, we can find examples when the Holy Ghost fell on people who all spoke one language and no strangers are there; we must ask the question: if everyone knew what they were saying, how did they know that they were speaking in tongues if everyone understood what was said. Wouldn't that just be prophecy? How does one tell?

In any case, nothing trumps ideas like experiences, my experience has wiped out my doubt that tongues are for real. Can people fake tongues?Sure they can, but if that is what they want; fake religion, then, I say, they are welcome to it. That is not for me. Try the spirits to see whether they be of God.
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#394 Dec 22, 2010
9. Dr. Murray's Awful Misteaching of "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit"

I remember how I tried to understand and explain Dr. Murray's version of "Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost" doctrine and, for a while, I did it his way. But anyone who studies the scriptures for long will realize that pastor Murray is just using the fact that a single passage which refers to being "delivered up" occurs once in proximity to Jesus mentioning the "unpardonable" sin. Non-Chapel people are going to be baffled by this one. Basically, Dr. Murray says that premeditating what you will say when you are delivered up before Satan is THE unpardonable sin; blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

Let me show you every time Jesus talked about this.

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith sever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Notice: a far greater authority than Dr. Arnold Murray gives us the meaning: Note in the above scripture: Because. Calling that which the Holy Ghost does, the work of evil spirits, is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. Pretty sensible.

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. 30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Again, we have the same story, the meaning is very obvious, not one word about being delivered up before Satan. I could never understand how it is in Dr. Murray, so much so, to pervert the Word of God on this point. His blindness is staggering. So is yours, if you do not get this, or are angry at me for pointing out the error of his ways.
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#395 Dec 22, 2010
Now, Dr. Murray's favorite, Luke 12, the interesting thing about Luke 12 is that if you will examine the context, it is a series of teachings which do not necessarily depend on each other. Many of these teachings occur in different contexts in the other gospels. But what Dr. Murray does with this passage is suggest that verses 11 and 10 have a cause and effect relationship: that 11 defines the meaning of blasphemy in 10. Friend...that defies logic. Not that logic is the be all end all of things. The word blasphemy means, "to speak evil of," but Dr. Murray's interpretation makes it mean "speak amiss, or speak willfully," honestly, I don't know what he wants us to believe the word means. There is no hint in this passage that verses ten and eleven are dependant on each other. Furthermore, I have Mark and Matthew backing me up. Especially Mark who tells us it was, "Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit." That settles it for me.

Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? 7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. 8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: 9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. 11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. 13 And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. 14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?

You can see the way the subject matter discussed here by Jesus are not totally dependant on each other or need to fall into this sequence, but consist of a series of teachings which could be taken independently. This is another case of Dr. Murray abusing the Word of God for a purpose I cannot even understand. Why would he do this?!?
Amazing_Grace

Garden City, MI

#396 Dec 22, 2010
Conclusion

If I did not know that God himself has blinded this man then I would truly marvel. But this is the Lord's work. I truly benefited from having studied with Dr. Murray; who else would have taken me through the bible line on line? But there comes a time when every student ought to graduate. Maybe you are ready to graduate from the Shepherd's Chapel into some real meat. Honestly, Arnold Murray doesn't offer much in the way of meat, and the milk is polluted with doctrines which ought to be silenced. I liked Dr. Murray allot, I recently watched the video of My wife and I getting married at the Chapel, and may add it here, I was very fond of him, and in many ways I still am. I'm not angry at Dr. Murray one bit, he does not know what he is doing. I must speak against those things which God has commanded me that I must speak. Arnold Murray needs to repent.

"But doesn't the fact that Dr. Murray teaches many good things count for anything?" A little leaven leavens the whole lump; either make the tree good and its fruit good or make the tree evil and its fruit evil. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Yes, the rapture is a lie. But knowing that does not make you of God. Yes, eternal torture is a lie, but teaching that does not make you of the truth.

Let me tell you something my dear Shepherd's Chapel student, stop following men, you will be very sorry for it. Repent of these false doctrines and turn to the truth, God's Word, which shall make you free indeed. Make your calling and election sure.

http://oraclesofgod.org/shepherds_chapel_docu...
Baptist Bread

United States

#398 Dec 24, 2010
Amen. Just wish people would wake up. I am so grieved that Murray's followers are so deceived. They don't want to hear the truth. They just want to keep wallowing in lies and deception. You can plainly show the truth from God's Word, but they refuse to listen. Like with the Garden of Eden...when its a literal tree, they say its not. But when something is symbolic, they take it as real.
Jeanie

Meridianville, AL

#399 Dec 26, 2010
Gen.2:9--- And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food: the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God does not say these 2 trees were grown out of the ground, he just describes these 2 trees and says they were in the midst of the garden.these trees are symbolical trees for people, Satan and Jesus. BB i gave you al kinds of scriptures for trees used symbolically for people on the other thread, have you not looked these up yet??
Baptist Bread

United States

#400 Dec 26, 2010
Jeanie wrote:
Gen.2:9--- And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food: the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God does not say these 2 trees were grown out of the ground, he just describes these 2 trees and says they were in the midst of the garden.these trees are symbolical trees for people, Satan and Jesus. BB i gave you al kinds of scriptures for trees used symbolically for people on the other thread, have you not looked these up yet??
the trees in the garden were reall trees. Eve saw that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was good for FOOD. You are wrong.
Spirit_777

Garden City, MI

#401 Dec 26, 2010
Baptist Bread wrote:
<quoted text>the trees in the garden were reall trees. Eve saw that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was good for FOOD. You are wrong.
I agree 100% the verses in Genesis 2 couldn't be more clearer ..
God specifically says Every Tree from out of the Ground , in the GARDEN and good for "FOOD" .
There were no other humans in the garden of Eden .. all the trees in Eden were actually TREES .. which grew from the ground . The knowledge of good and evil was opened up to Adam and Eve when they disobeyed God and Ate of the tree , for the first time they disobeyed God and their hearts being convicted by the wrong they did .
Adam just like Eve ate of the fruit she ate from .... they were not passing satan back and forth for intimate relations ... That is adding to scripture and making Adam bysexual at the same time .
God gave Adam and Eve the ultimate test of faith .. to Obey His warnings .. or to turn inward to their own desires . The tree remained in the garden where it grew .. only Adam and Eve were banned from the garden .. Clearly if Satan had been that Tree they ate from .. he would still be in the garden of eden where God grew the tree from the ground .. No where in Gods word is it ever spoken that Satan was created or grown ground of the earth .
I don't know of any verses that actual explain satans creation ... just the mention that all the hosts of heaven were finished . I have thought satan and all the angelic hosts of heaven were simply spoken into existence by God .
Jeanie

Meridianville, AL

#402 Dec 27, 2010
BB has said he has never heard of people being referred to as trees in the bible,,well here's all kinds of scripture proving trees are referred to as people, ----Isaih 61:3 , Hosea 14:8,,,Ezk.20:45-49,, Zachriah 4:11-14,, Zacharia 11:1-3,, Matt.3:10,, Daniel 4:10,11,14,20,22. Isaih 11:1-10,, Judges 9:8-15,, Ezk.17:24,, Mark 8:24,, Rev.22:2 and Gen.3:24 Jesus is the Tree of Life. and of course Satan is that tree of knowledge of good and evil,,,and i know you have heard Israel is referred to as the Fig Tree. i can't remember right now where the scripture is but Satan is referred to as an old box cedar, as God refers Himself as a green fir tree in Hosea 14:8.
Baptist Bread

United States

#403 Dec 27, 2010
Jeanie wrote:
BB has said he has never heard of people being referred to as trees in the bible,,well here's all kinds of scripture proving trees are referred to as people,----Isaih 61:3 , Hosea 14:8,,,Ezk.20:45-49,, Zachriah 4:11-14,, Zacharia 11:1-3,, Matt.3:10,, Daniel 4:10,11,14,20,22. Isaih 11:1-10,, Judges 9:8-15,, Ezk.17:24,, Mark 8:24,, Rev.22:2 and Gen.3:24 Jesus is the Tree of Life. and of course Satan is that tree of knowledge of good and evil,,,and i know you have heard Israel is referred to as the Fig Tree. i can't remember right now where the scripture is but Satan is referred to as an old box cedar, as God refers Himself as a green fir tree in Hosea 14:8.
I could take time to explain it all to you, but you still wouldn't believe me. You have already been brainwashed by Murray, so I won't waste my words. I think of it as casting my pearls before the swine.
Jeanie

Meridianville, AL

#404 Dec 27, 2010
Baptist Bread wrote:
<quoted text>I could take time to explain it all to you, but you still wouldn't believe me. You have already been brainwashed by Murray, so I won't waste my words. I think of it as casting my pearls before the swine.
Aw come on BB , lets see what you got! i'm serious, give me your explanation of these .
Baptist Bread

Highlandville, MO

#405 Dec 28, 2010
Www.sounddoctrine.com Good explanation of the rapture.
Jeanie

Meridianville, AL

#406 Dec 28, 2010
Baptist Bread wrote:
Www.sounddoctrine.com Good explanation of the rapture.
still promoting that old lie i see, what about the scriptures on the trees you were gonna give, where are they BB??
Spirit_777

Garden City, MI

#407 Dec 28, 2010
Jeanie wrote:
<quoted text>still promoting that old lie i see, what about the scriptures on the trees you were gonna give, where are they BB??
You have received Gods truth over and over again yet you continue in repetative mockery ... ongoingly avoiding any accountability to the false doctrines of arnold murray you teach . A known Heretic who persecutes Christ and the churchs of Christ . A man who says Jesus is a giant spirit( denying Christ in the flesh ) whom he encountered in his cow pasture .. one who teaches the doctrines of angel/spirits .. one who says that Jesus has already returned in his cow pasture and elected mr. murray a divine teacher of Gods end times , delivering a damning lie predicting false events that did not come to pass.. All of which God has warned us of in His word .
We are not to accept another gospel ....one saying that Jesus has elected any man to be over His children. One who received a new gospel of angel/spirits .. from a Giant that appeared in a UFO is his cow pasture... lo Christ is here or there .. No where in Gods word are we told to follow a man who claims Christ has already come .
You are warned of God yet continue to accept the doctrines of a man claiming you are an angel from 300 million years ago , reincarnated into a flesh .. You are deceived and under strong delusions and unable to see or know the truth given to us in Gods word .
Once again The Trees mentioned in Genesis 2 are Trees
Words often have more than one meaning , and are sometimes used symbolically .... It does not stand to reason that the word's "actual meaning" takes back seat to the symbolic use of that word.
When reading an entire chapter and the surrounding verses around a specific word .. we are able to understand the proper context of the word being applied . The circumstance , the setting all contribute to the words actual meaning in that verse and the entire chapter .
In Genesis 2 we are given a deeper insight into Gods bringing to life all those things He created in Genesis C1... The generations , the actual account of the events of bringing to life all He had created , according to Gods divine plan for them. The begining of all the generations of all of mankind , animals , plants . Everything God created in Genesis c1 .. being brought forth to life .

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