American Airlines files for Ch. 11 pr...

American Airlines files for Ch. 11 protection

There are 17 comments on the The Kansas City Star story from Nov 29, 2011, titled American Airlines files for Ch. 11 protection. In it, The Kansas City Star reports that:

The parent companies of American Airlines and its regional affiliate American Eagle are filing for Ch.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Kansas City Star.

Just Another BK

Brownsville, PA

#1 Nov 29, 2011
Now the 8000+ Vice Presidents will be slashed, retirees booted, and pensions sent to the government. Instead of taking a haircut that could have been recouped in five years, the unions opted to go all in and stand firm on what little leverage they had. The company offered Pilots a pay raise! Why do these Pilots think they have such control over a company bleeding cash. It is absolute stupidity on their part. Every major airline has filed BK except AMR. The writing was on the wall.
Just Another BK

Brownsville, PA

#2 Nov 29, 2011
Well its happened. The Big BK ! The Pilot group obviously didn't believe the company wouldn't do it. Demanding signing bonuses plus 7% for three years? Like that will help the airline recover it's losses. Airline Pilots have to be the most egotistical Union Group on the planet. Good luck with the PBGC payouts. Unless their plan was to sever the retirees from the money tree they made a huge tactical error.
RWG

Dillsboro, IN

#3 Nov 29, 2011
I thought I'd feel better after hearing the Lazy A finally went into Chap. 11, but I don't.
It's a shame that it came to this all because of management that should have been fired or, if they had any morals or character, should have resigned a long time ago.
I just hope the management staff I know realize now that their management style brought a once proud company to where it is today.
You know who I'm talking about, right;
Carmine Romano, Barry Lederman, John Krause, John Fowler, Bill Weaver, Dave Parker, Ken Harding, Lela French, Don Carty, Gerald Arpey and the rest of the mis-managers I met there who can't run a 1 car funeral. You all are responsible for this. I hope you are all happy.
AAmgt

Collierville, TN

#4 Nov 29, 2011
Thanks alot pilots. Why can't you just be happy for once.
bigwheel

Dallas, TX

#5 Nov 29, 2011
Look for major outsourcing at AMR. Ramp, maintenance, etc. They wouldn't accept the offer so now...here you go.
Flyer

Brazil

#6 Nov 29, 2011
How can a group of smart people be so dumb. The Pilots Union for AA has to be the worse Union in the history of mankind. If you all remember they got fined a while back and now the played chicken and got beat like a redheaded-step-child. Just think, the Pilots actually pay dues to be represented this bad. They would be better off disolving the Union and going it alone. Certainly could not be any worse.
Here is what is coming Pilots Union, 30% pay cuts, elimination of the pension plan, work rules so that AA can fly any distance a plane can reach without your approval, you will have to fly more and they are going to cut jobs.
Just think last Friday, you could have gotten a raise, if your Union bosses were only so smart.
Excuse me if I laugh at you in the airport when I see your Union badges and stickers. I will not be laughing with you but at you!

Since: May 08

Santee CA

#7 Nov 29, 2011
The man who accepted all of those retention bonuses and angered the unoins to this point is out. His Golden Parachute softening the fall as the pro BK sect performed a coup. A pilot who was set to be in the next exodus scheduled for Dec 1 said this moved cost him almost 2 million in retirement. I imeediately thought 1) Holy S#!+ you and others make about 2 million when you retire. And logically 2) The company could not afford to let that happen again. The last big mass retirement was Oct. It will be interesting to see since we gave up voluntarily almost as much as BK took from others 10 years ago. Should be a fun 6 months. As far as mass cuts and outsourcing. I don't think so. Chapter 11 gives the unions a chance to bargain for a mutually acceptable deal.(With a gun pointed to our heads)
Toad

London, UK

#8 Nov 29, 2011
Prost wrote:
The man who accepted all of those retention bonuses and angered the unoins to this point is out. His Golden Parachute softening the fall as the pro BK sect performed a coup. A pilot who was set to be in the next exodus scheduled for Dec 1 said this moved cost him almost 2 million in retirement. I imeediately thought 1) Holy S#!+ you and others make about 2 million when you retire. And logically 2) The company could not afford to let that happen again. The last big mass retirement was Oct. It will be interesting to see since we gave up voluntarily almost as much as BK took from others 10 years ago. Should be a fun 6 months. As far as mass cuts and outsourcing. I don't think so. Chapter 11 gives the unions a chance to bargain for a mutually acceptable deal.(With a gun pointed to our heads)
Hey Mate, w/ BK the unions just got ousted w/ the exception of the Pilots..........a smaller work force, higher productivity, lower pay/benefits. The BK court doesn't bargain w/ unions. They impose, not bargain. Ur moola crunchers will do what all legacy carriers did........downsize, outsource and cut cut cut cut. Or? Liquidate. Labor has NO voice in BK. That's what BK is all about.

Since: May 08

Santee CA

#9 Nov 29, 2011
Toad wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Mate, w/ BK the unions just got ousted w/ the exception of the Pilots..........a smaller work force, higher productivity, lower pay/benefits. The BK court doesn't bargain w/ unions. They impose, not bargain. Ur moola crunchers will do what all legacy carriers did........downsize, outsource and cut cut cut cut. Or? Liquidate. Labor has NO voice in BK. That's what BK is all about.
Perhaps in the UK, but in U.S. Courts the unions have the oppurtunity to work with the company on the proposal that will be sent before the judge.
Just Another BK

United States

#10 Nov 30, 2011
You can Bargain all you want but at some point the company is going to say here is your slice of the pie. If you vote No.... then the company will ask the Judge to impose it on you.

Since: May 08

Santee CA

#11 Nov 30, 2011
Just Another BK wrote:
You can Bargain all you want but at some point the company is going to say here is your slice of the pie. If you vote No.... then the company will ask the Judge to impose it on you.
Sounds like our other negotiations. In 2003 it was "take these concessions or we will go BK and ask for alot more". Most recently it was "this is our final offer we are thru talking". That after offering basically the same thing 3 times. I think it was a ploy to let people think they wouldn't do a BK and keep the pilots around. They declared BK just before another retirement wave was about to hit. We had a TA. One can only presume it contained elements the compnay needed to return to the black. Horton is a member of the good ol' boys club though. I'm sure they will demand more.
Bigbro

United States

#12 Nov 30, 2011
Get ready for us air to come with the checkbook....damn I would laugh my ass of if they 'stapled' all off AA employees to the bottom. Wouldn't that be ironic?!?!
Toad

London, UK

#13 Nov 30, 2011
Bigbro wrote:
Get ready for us air to come with the checkbook....damn I would laugh my ass of if they 'stapled' all off AA employees to the bottom. Wouldn't that be ironic?!?!
Because of APFA's spiteful actions after the purchase of TWA laws were enacted. You can never staple to the bottom again. It has to be fair and equitable. DAL/NWA equals DOH. CAL/UAL equals DOH. The precedent has been set.
Eastern SCAB pilot

San Francisco, CA

#14 Nov 30, 2011
I'm looking for my rightful position as a B-777 SENIOR Captain at American.

I'm waiting to replace you union pilots soon. The time is right for all of you to do the right thing and resign and find another career.

Pilots are ethiopian cab drivers with epalets and ties, nothing more and nothing less.

This industry is for us SCAB pilots to takeover.
Worldcom

El Cajon, CA

#15 Nov 30, 2011
Stapling pilots at AA to the bottom at any airline, well that would be absolutely fitting in any merger or acquisition.

However successful companies realize this is not a good method to financially thrive. However what goes around comes around.

Wall street greed and management lies at AMR need to be the common thread.
Toad

London, UK

#16 Nov 30, 2011
Worldcom wrote:
Stapling pilots at AA to the bottom at any airline, well that would be absolutely fitting in any merger or acquisition.
However successful companies realize this is not a good method to financially thrive. However what goes around comes around.
Wall street greed and management lies at AMR need to be the common thread.
Against the Federal Law.
What all AA employees have to worry about is the break up of assets for AMR. Creditors get the 1st and last word. If they could get cash for DFW, more cash for Miami, and a ton more for ORD, then just enough to break @ LAX.....AA could be sold in pieces and I doubt the purchasers would take the AA employees unless they interviewed 1st, IE PAA employees had to interview when DAL purchased a portion of PAA assets. PAA employees were hired and had to agree to up to 15yrs in loss of senority. Still, they had a job as PAA folded weeks later. This will be like no other AL BK in history as the BK laws changed 01JAN following DAL/NWA BK's. It will be messy. I hope AA can stay flying but I do hope the FA's dump the APFA. Who needs a union that useless.
bumblebee

Midlothian, TX

#17 Dec 1, 2011
Just Another BK wrote:
You can Bargain all you want but at some point the company is going to say here is your slice of the pie.
Negotiations are over. Now, the court will decide what the company can afford to offer in pay and benefits. Period. Alot less than what the company was offering before BK.

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