Jesus Christ is a capitalist

Posted in the Grandville Forum

Sassy

Byron Center, MI

#1 Dec 3, 2013
Yes, Jesus hates socialism. Sorry Obama. Looks like you won't be inheriting everlasting life.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/jesus-christ-is-a-...
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#2 Dec 4, 2013
I can't imagine a worse fate than having a fictional character hating something.....

Unless it's someone who thinks his fictional savoir thinks unbridled greed is a good thing!

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#3 Dec 4, 2013
Bob wrote:
I can't imagine a worse fate than having a fictional character hating something.....
Unless it's someone who thinks his fictional savoir thinks unbridled greed is a good thing!
Certainly having a real person dismiss the real God and spending eternity aware of their foolishness is something far worse.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Highland, MI

#4 Dec 4, 2013
Bob wrote:
I can't imagine a worse fate than having a fictional character hating something.....
Unless it's someone who thinks his fictional savoir thinks unbridled greed is a good thing!
Yet you believe the progressives and the O. A system that has never worked in history...... Try Scientology.......
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#5 Dec 4, 2013
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Yet you believe the progressives and the O. A system that has never worked in history...... Try Scientology.......
I'm sure after Kate dropped him.....

You're more than enough woman for Tom by yourself!

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#6 Dec 4, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Certainly having a real person dismiss the real God and spending eternity aware of their foolishness is something far worse.
At the expense of being bashed again...please show some kind of evidence of the "real god". At least show proof that the "real god" you proclaim to be actually is the real god of all religions...or not.

Once we've established what a "real god" is then we can begin to realize this "eternity" you speak of.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#7 Dec 4, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
At the expense of being bashed again...please show some kind of evidence of the "real god". At least show proof that the "real god" you proclaim to be actually is the real god of all religions...or not.
Once we've established what a "real god" is then we can begin to realize this "eternity" you speak of.
Sure and no bashing. I'd welcome a real discussion.

There are lots of both philosophical and scientific arguments for a God (or gods). For example one is Aquinas argument about causation. Aquinas argued that every effect requires a cause and that nothing in the world is the cause of its own existence. Tracing back the causes cannot continue indefinitely because if it did then nothing would have come into existence. Therefore there must be an original cause in the first place and to this first cause we give the name God. Writers like Dawkins, Hitchens, Sagan and others have asked why the regress has to stop at God. Why can't it continue? They ignore the first part of the argument is that it can't continue because if it never starts then nothing, including the atheist would come into existence. Until you have an A to cause B, there can be nothing down the line to cause you and I.

The second general argument against this is to ask if everything has a cause then who caused God? Aquina's argument does not use the premise that everything needs a cause, only that everything that exists in the universe needs a cause. Since God is by definition outside of the universe, He is not part of the series. Therefore the rules of the series, including the rules of causation do not logically apply to Him.

Anselm's argument is another example of a logical proof of the existence of God. Again, there is nothing in these to talk about the personality of God. The God in these arguments could simply have started the universe and then does absolutely nothing. The interaction or lack thereof is a different discussion.
In science there is the obvious “big bang” theory which goes back to the idea of causation. Other types of origination have been discredited long ago. There are other theories that seek to explain the origination of the universe by starting our universe somewhere else, but that just pushes the series back one step. There still must be a starting point which posits a starter.
Another example in science are the laws of science. Religions often talk about God giving moral laws but in science, without a God you default to naturalism or randomness. Thus the various laws could not exist and so E would equal mc squared today but not tomorrow. Two objects dropped from the same height would fall at different speeds on different days. Without a God to put into place those scientific laws we refer to and depend on every day, they would cease to exist because there is no reason they must exist. There is no natural or logical reason why a bowling ball and a tennis shoe, dropped from the same height must fall at the same rate of speed. But they do. And we don’t see any evidence of randomness; today they fall at one rate and tomorrow a different rate.
I could go on because there is a lot of evidence for the existence of God. Which is probably why atheism is so small at less than 2% of folks flat out denying the existence of God. Most people agree that there is a God, but they very much disagree on who and what kind of God He is.
Dr X

Byron Center, MI

#8 Dec 4, 2013
The only thing that can prove the existence of God is...God. No human being can scientifically prove or disprove the existence of a divine being. The truth usually lays in the middle. But where's the middle in this case? Can God exist for some and not for others? What is creative force and does it in any way mirror Christian dogma or any other religious belief? Can God and science ever meet? Is creation itself proof of divine creation? What came first, the chicken or the egg?
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#9 Dec 5, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Certainly having a real person dismiss the real God and spending eternity aware of their foolishness is something far worse.
Then by all means I should change my mind and worship the great sky pilot..........

Which one?

There's lots of choices, and we all know by listening to the saved, that following a false gawd is just as bad as not following one at all.

Does your gawd have an official rule book?

Is this book complete, or have other mere mortals dropped portions of it because it didn't fit their own perception of it? You do know that the only things all of these different religions have in common is that none of them follow the entire book called the Bible, right?

The author obviously used his own version, so maybe I could start my own religion using only the parts I liked......

Would that be okay?

Let's hope that the religion you follow, and the mortal men that designed it weren't wrong in their choices..... Eternity is going to be a real let down if you find out you were sold a bill of goods!
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

#10 Dec 5, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Then by all means I should change my mind and worship the great sky pilot..........
Which one?
There's lots of choices, and we all know by listening to the saved, that following a false gawd is just as bad as not following one at all.
Does your gawd have an official rule book?
Is this book complete, or have other mere mortals dropped portions of it because it didn't fit their own perception of it? You do know that the only things all of these different religions have in common is that none of them follow the entire book called the Bible, right?
The author obviously used his own version, so maybe I could start my own religion using only the parts I liked......
Would that be okay?
Let's hope that the religion you follow, and the mortal men that designed it weren't wrong in their choices..... Eternity is going to be a real let down if you find out you were sold a bill of goods!
You already worship your own god, Bob. You do it every day. You're just too stupid to realize it.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Brighton, MI

#11 Dec 5, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Then by all means I should change my mind and worship the great sky pilot..........
Which one?
There's lots of choices, and we all know by listening to the saved, that following a false gawd is just as bad as not following one at all.
Does your gawd have an official rule book?
Is this book complete, or have other mere mortals dropped portions of it because it didn't fit their own perception of it? You do know that the only things all of these different religions have in common is that none of them follow the entire book called the Bible, right?
The author obviously used his own version, so maybe I could start my own religion using only the parts I liked......
Would that be okay?
Let's hope that the religion you follow, and the mortal men that designed it weren't wrong in their choices..... Eternity is going to be a real let down if you find out you were sold a bill of goods!
While you follow a failed god called Progressivism...... Always has and always will...... That god has always made people poor and slaves to other men. You will always elect to be a slave.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#12 Dec 5, 2013
Dr X wrote:
The only thing that can prove the existence of God is...God. No human being can scientifically prove or disprove the existence of a divine being. The truth usually lays in the middle. But where's the middle in this case? Can God exist for some and not for others? What is creative force and does it in any way mirror Christian dogma or any other religious belief? Can God and science ever meet? Is creation itself proof of divine creation? What came first, the chicken or the egg?
I would disagree. Even though I can't see the wind, love, courage or Dr X, I can use various types of evidence to prove these things exist. That's why man, going back to the days of pre-civilization have believed in some type of creator. Where they differed, the middle ground if you will is on the personality of God(s). That was one of my first points, that the discussion of "is there a God" and "what is God like" too often get blended into the same single confused topic.

Can God and science ever meet? If you look at the history of science you will find recognizable names like Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Brahe, Descartesm, Boyle, Newton, Leibniz, Gassendi, Pascal, Ohm, Ampere, Pasteur, and many others who were very religious. More importantly, science then and now has operated under the assumption that the universe is rational, that science operates according to laws, and that these laws are understandable to people. For God and science to not meet, science would have to operate under the assumption that there is no order to the universe; that randomness and chaos is the order to the day.

Can God exist for some and not for others? No. Whether one likes or dislikes the President (regardless of who is in office) the President exists for everyone. And more importantly God existed long before people and if the world were to blow up today, God would continue to exist. Ask a different question. Can different people know God differently? Absolutely. While God doesn't change, we do and as we change we can become closer or move further away. We can know more or less about God. If the last history book I read was in High School, I would know very little about history. If I read one History book every week, I would certainly know much more. Same with friends and family. The more time I spend with them, the more I know them. OTOH I have friends I haven't seen since high school. I know very little of them, including if they are even alive.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#13 Dec 5, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Then by all means I should change my mind and worship the great sky pilot..........
Which one?
There's lots of choices, and we all know by listening to the saved, that following a false gawd is just as bad as not following one at all.
Does your gawd have an official rule book?
Is this book complete, or have other mere mortals dropped portions of it because it didn't fit their own perception of it? You do know that the only things all of these different religions have in common is that none of them follow the entire book called the Bible, right?
The author obviously used his own version, so maybe I could start my own religion using only the parts I liked......
Would that be okay?
Let's hope that the religion you follow, and the mortal men that designed it weren't wrong in their choices..... Eternity is going to be a real let down if you find out you were sold a bill of goods!
I said I wouldn't bash. How about you?

Right now I doubt you believe there is a God so investigating the attributes and personality of God would simply feed your current beliefs around the non-existence of God. You are correct that it should be an important decision for a number of reasons. One of which may be that picking the wrong God could result in eternal misery. As you said "Let's hope that the religion you follow, isn't wrong because if it is, eternity is going to be a real let down if you find out you picked the wrong bill of goods!"

Another is a simple fact that all of us will spend more time dead than alive and it is in this life that we "place our bets" so to speak. If at the age of 21 you were required to pick the one job you would have for the rest of your life would you spend serious time considering your options, or just let someone else pick for you?

The God I worship doesn't have an official rule book, however some religions certainly do. Going back to a previous comment of mine, whether God has or doesn't have a rule book is part of the discussion regarding His personality and attributes. If I believed that God never communicates with people then the idea of a rule book, or any type of book would be silly. If I believed that everyone and everything collectively made up God then there would be potentially millions of rule books. One can't accept or dismiss any particular "book" until God has been defined.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#14 Dec 6, 2013
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>While you follow a failed god called Progressivism...... Always has and always will...... That god has always made people poor and slaves to other men. You will always elect to be a slave.
As compared to your chosen religion......

Wasn't that great when the Pope said greedy people like you were the main problem with the world?

REPENT YE FACIST SINNER!
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#15 Dec 6, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
I said I wouldn't bash. How about you?
Who said I was bashing?

This world is chocked full of people who have all chosen to come up with their own version of a god and sometimes a whole bunch of them. Everyone of them preach that all of the other religions are wrong and that their followers will all suffer in another place after they die. Almost every one of these religions has some book or story that is used as the guideline for how their followers are supposed to act so they get a better option in an afterlife.

My only hope is that for your sake, you made the right choice from all of the available options. That decision certainly wasn't based on solid evidence, so you really need to hope that your hunches were correct. Personally, it doesn't matter to me!

Getting back on the subject, the author of this blog decided to cherry pick one small portion of a book called the bible to make some absurd point. It's fairly obvious that he did so because it gave him an excuse for why he is the way he is. In any honest discussion, you should agree to a certain number of facts.

The Facts -

The Jewish/Christian religions all follow the guidelines set forth in a book called the bible.

Every chapter written for inclusion in the complete bible were written by mortal men, long after the events they write about took place.

None of these religions follow a bible that contains all of the written works contained in the complete bible.

The decision to delete chapters, or to amend that bible were made by or mortal men, whether they were church leaders, kings, or whoever else they were.

The Conclusion -

The author of this ridiculous article, taught by his church that changing the context of his bible is okay, has decided to do exactly what every other mortal person has done. It certainly doesn't make him correct. Unless of course, a person agrees with him.......

And another version of Christianity is born!

If you don't agree with him, I guess you need to change your heathen ways before it's too late.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#16 Dec 6, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said I was bashing?
This world is chocked full of people who have all chosen to come up with their own version of a god and sometimes a whole bunch of them. Everyone of them preach that all of the other religions are wrong and that their followers will all suffer in another place after they die. Almost every one of these religions has some book or story that is used as the guideline for how their followers are supposed to act so they get a better option in an afterlife.
My only hope is that for your sake, you made the right choice from all of the available options. That decision certainly wasn't based on solid evidence, so you really need to hope that your hunches were correct. Personally, it doesn't matter to me!
Getting back on the subject, the author of this blog decided to cherry pick one small portion of a book called the bible to make some absurd point. It's fairly obvious that he did so because it gave him an excuse for why he is the way he is. In any honest discussion, you should agree to a certain number of facts.
The Facts -
The Jewish/Christian religions all follow the guidelines set forth in a book called the bible.
Every chapter written for inclusion in the complete bible were written by mortal men, long after the events they write about took place.
None of these religions follow a bible that contains all of the written works contained in the complete bible.
The decision to delete chapters, or to amend that bible were made by or mortal men, whether they were church leaders, kings, or whoever else they were.
The Conclusion -
The author of this ridiculous article, taught by his church that changing the context of his bible is okay, has decided to do exactly what every other mortal person has done. It certainly doesn't make him correct. Unless of course, a person agrees with him.......
And another version of Christianity is born!
If you don't agree with him, I guess you need to change your heathen ways before it's too late.
I agree that there are many different religions, tens of thousands of them at least. There are probably that many different types of cars as well. One doesn't just randomly purchase a car nor should one just randomly choose which God they believe in, especially since it is easily the most important decision one makes with eternal consequences.

People pick and choose Biblical versus to support their viewpoints all the time. And people also ignore clearly stated Biblical principles all the time. We're human and we interpret stuff to fit our beliefs, whether it is religion, politics, economics, sports or entertainment. We should have enough reasoning skills to at least ignore silly stuff and ideally have the skills to refute silly stuff. But again, as humans what we "wish" was true or how people "should" behave trumps reality. Relgion is no different.

I also disagree with your assertion that my decision wasn't based on solid evidence. I didn't grow up going to church and came to it in my late 20's after lots of investigation. I don't remember who said it, but Christianity is unique because it isn't based on opinion but on facts. It should be the easiest religion to refute and could have been eliminated by the Jews or the Romans by the fall of Jerusalem in 70. The same is true with it's continued existence. Christianity makes some unique claims that, if they weren't true would have simply made Jesus and his followers a very tiny little group with zero influence today.

I would counter that it is the atheist who's decision is not based on the evidence but on their ego and personal desires.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Brighton, MI

#17 Dec 6, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
As compared to your chosen religion......
Wasn't that great when the Pope said greedy people like you were the main problem with the world?
REPENT YE FACIST SINNER!
You mean like our current Dem leaders in Washington..... You seem more greedy as a progressive because you want to take others labors...... You probably do not make donations above a buck at the Salvation Army kettle at Meijer..... My greed includes giving more than Al Gore......

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