Does Anyone Think GM Retirees Will Loose Their Pensions?

[Union All The Way]

Bluenote wrote:

<quoted text>
UAW takes over plan Janurary 2010

VEBA as Over50 stated.

[Alvin]

Seems to me that there is always lots of inflated numbers on salaries and pensions too. Most of the UAW folks you see living as large as some would like to think have a spouse making equal, that makes a huge difference.

[Bob338]

Bottom line is Union members signed a contract with the company,(both agreeing) on wages and retirement benefits. The company should not be able to "go back" on the contract. Imagine getting your only retirement yanked, after planning on it and adjusting for it during 30 years of work.

[Union All The Way]

UAW hourly pension is avaliable to anyone with internet access. It is well below $4000.00 per month gross. If GM pension is gone then the PBGC takes over and pays a person depending on age and year pension was terminated. PBGC also easy to find on the internet.

http://www.pbgc.gov/

http://www.uaw.org/barg/03/barg05.cfm

[Over 50]

Alvin wrote:

Seems to me that there is always lots of inflated numbers on salaries and pensions too. Most of the UAW folks you see living as large as some would like to think have a spouse making equal, that makes a huge difference.

Thank you ... when a GM retiree hits 62 for Social Security, the pension from GM for 30 years service is about $1600/month on top of your Social Security benefit ..

[Red_Fist]

Well that is huge money, I wish I could be that broke.Hell my dad was in tool and die, my mom sprayed car parts, both worked a long time.

No pension, she gets about $1200 a month social security.Has to pay for AARP among many other things.

But hell ya each of them worked for years waaaaay less harder than you union extortionists.

pathetic, seems most people have no idea what being broke is

[ya right]

A Christian wrote:

Dude, How could you be so heartless.I dont believe you as a taxpayer should help either. But on the other hand its not the line workers who did the shot the same screw in every 2 seconds for 30yr plus yrs fault. But they are the ones paying for it. John M it the nail on the head. The big CEOs and management should pay.

Well,they got a pay check every week didn't they? They had health care for years, didn't they? At those wages they should have a nice saving account shouldn't they?
Then what's the problem. Now they can join the rest of the real world..

[ya right]

Bob338 wrote:

Bottom line is Union members signed a contract with the company,(both agreeing) on wages and retirement benefits. The company should not be able to "go back" on the contract. Imagine getting your only retirement yanked, after planning on it and adjusting for it during 30 years of work.

Earth to Bob, Earth to Bob... I repeat... Earth to Bob. What was that saying from Dave Ramsey... if you live like nobody else then someday you can live like nobody else. Didn't really see any GM workers living the scrimp and save plan.
Sure it does suck, but what really gets me is that unions expect and almost demand our sympathy as if their plight should go to the head of the class. Sorry guys you are all ON YOUR OWN now. I know winging a new experience is a little scary but you are grown ups. You can do it!!!

[Alvin]

Red_Fist wrote:

Well that is huge money, I wish I could be that broke.Hell my dad was in tool and die, my mom sprayed car parts, both worked a long time.
No pension, she gets about $1200 a month social security.Has to pay for AARP among many other things.
But hell ya each of them worked for years waaaaay less harder than you union extortionists.
pathetic, seems most people have no idea what being broke is

If she's getting (alone)$1,200 a mo. in Soc. Sec. she earned a good wage, and you don't HAVE to have AARP, look into it. Open your eyes, you believe everything you hear about the UAW and there's a good chance Rush isn't giving correct info or skewing it to make his point.

[Seenitbefore]

Red_Fist wrote:

Well that is huge money, I wish I could be that broke.Hell my dad was in tool and die, my mom sprayed car parts, both worked a long time.
No pension, she gets about $1200 a month social security.Has to pay for AARP among many other things.
But hell ya each of them worked for years waaaaay less harder than you union extortionists.
pathetic, seems most people have no idea what being broke is

AARP is a private organization that has turned into an insurance brokerage.

So I take it that your parents didn't work in a union environment where the management made sure the company took care of themselves, retirement wise, but not the workers.

[It takes all kinds]

Bob338 wrote:

Bottom line is Union members signed a contract with the company,(both agreeing) on wages and retirement benefits. The company should not be able to "go back" on the contract. Imagine getting your only retirement yanked, after planning on it and adjusting for it during 30 years of work.

That's the crappy thing about bankruptcy. Contracts are torn up and the judge issues orders based upon what's best for ALL parties which means just about everyone gets screwed. This holds true UNLESS ALL parties reach agreements prior to a filing but even then the judge can get squirrely on you and still do his own thing. This is why avoiding bankruptcy is best if at all possible.

[Old Rocker]

Bob338 wrote:

Bottom line is Union members signed a contract with the company,(both agreeing) on wages and retirement benefits. The company should not be able to "go back" on the contract. Imagine getting your only retirement yanked, after planning on it and adjusting for it during 30 years of work.

Yes Bob. There is a contract. But if there's no money how can it be fulfilled? You can't get blood out of a turnip.

On a smaller simpler scale, if you promised to pay someone's car payment in times of plenty, and you suddenly went broke due to poor money management, how would your keep your promise?

[Seenitbefore]

It takes all kinds wrote:

<quoted text>
That's the crappy thing about bankruptcy. Contracts are torn up and the judge issues orders based upon what's best for ALL parties which means just about everyone gets screwed. This holds true UNLESS ALL parties reach agreements prior to a filing but even then the judge can get squirrely on you and still do his own thing. This is why avoiding bankruptcy is best if at all possible.

I agree with that. And the ramifications on that are going to hit labor the biggest when seen from the individuals viewpoint. On that individual standpoint they are going to be taking the largest living standard hit of anyone. I'm not leaving general office employees out of that either. Everyone under the upper management level is going to have a tough time surviving this economy.

[Seenitbefore]

Old Rocker wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes Bob. There is a contract. But if there's no money how can it be fulfilled? You can't get blood out of a turnip.
On a smaller simpler scale, if you promised to pay someone's car payment in times of plenty, and you suddenly went broke due to poor money management, how would your keep your promise?

That being said, how would they keep their promise to pay the purchasers car payments if they (purchaser) lose their job, if there isn't any money? The way jobs are dropping how is it that these manufacturers can come up with that kind of a sales incentive? There is money. It's just a matter of where management chooses to place it.

[Wild Bill]

Seenitbefore wrote:

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Remembering that Romney has gotten to be as wealthy as he is by practicing the business of the 80s in buying up struggling and/or failing companies and selling off the pieces.

Sounds like what BO is doing to Chrysler and GM.

[abranger]

Canadagirl wrote:

Any comments on this?

Yes, please tell me why there are so many people on Topix who don't know the difference between loose and lose?

[Union All The Way]

My pants are loose.
Did you lose something?

I'm only a overpaid UAW worker...did I pass??

[Alvin]

abranger wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, please tell me why there are so many people on Topix who don't know the difference between loose and lose?

I don't no :)

[SOS in Rockford]

Union All The Way wrote:

My pants are loose.
Did you lose something?
I'm only a overpaid UAW worker...did I pass??

Me thinks union or non-union has nothing to do with it.
You are probably in your mid to late fifties (or older) which means you were in school when spelling mattered.

[Over 50]

abranger wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, please tell me why there are so many people on Topix who don't know the difference between loose and lose?

If it is loose will I lose it?