Billions For Citigroup, Big 3 Left Out, Again

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Since: Sep 08

Zeeland, MI

#1 Nov 24, 2008
That is it, they just announced a 300 Billion+ bailout of Citigroup negotiated behind closed doors over the weekend. The Big 3 execs have to get humiliated on national tv, not once but twice and now they want them to come back for another pounding before they can get a 25 Billion loan. This is blatant union prejudice. Companies that have robbed us blind for years w/o union employees get billions just by showing up and the Big 3 with UAW employees get dissed.

It is time for Levin and Stabenow to stand up and stop this. The GOP is demanding that the Big 3 put themselves in bankruptcy, give up their jets and lower exec pay before they get a dime but Citigroup just shows up and gets over 300 Billion w/o a public hearing.

What the hell is going on?
jcv

United States

#2 Nov 24, 2008
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Big 3 executives each take their own private plane to Washington? In addition, none were prepared with a plan on how to fix the problem? Can you imagine applying for a job with one of these guys and telling them you want a job but don't have any idea what you're doing? I say help these companies, but only if they get rid of the current executives (with NO severance pay) and recruit new people with common sense.

“So what!!”

Since: Apr 08

Lakeview, Mi.

#3 Nov 24, 2008
So Citigroup gets 300 billion plus 25 billion injected and people still lost their house. And best the Big 3 to death because they have UAW represented employees. Millions of jobs will be lost and our economy ain't hit bottom yet. 09 unemployment to 18%. Looks like a good year for suicide cleanup companies.
freebird

Cedar Springs, MI

#4 Nov 24, 2008
There covering all the bad loans and credit card default, The problem is they are probably not going to loan money, and there are probably millions more loans and credit card defaults heading there way. then they will need more, probably like the big 3. I think they should help the big 3, It probably will not matter, because in a few months or so, they will be back for more.There are so many IFs,and'but's.
Joanne

Scotts, MI

#5 Nov 24, 2008
GR Pete wrote:
That is it, they just announced a 300 Billion+ bailout of Citigroup negotiated behind closed doors over the weekend. The Big 3 execs have to get humiliated on national tv, not once but twice and now they want them to come back for another pounding before they can get a 25 Billion loan. This is blatant union prejudice. Companies that have robbed us blind for years w/o union employees get billions just by showing up and the Big 3 with UAW employees get dissed.
It is time for Levin and Stabenow to stand up and stop this. The GOP is demanding that the Big 3 put themselves in bankruptcy, give up their jets and lower exec pay before they get a dime but Citigroup just shows up and gets over 300 Billion w/o a public hearing.
What the hell is going on?
You need to get your head out of your rear end!!

“Dude, Where's my car?”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#6 Nov 24, 2008
I'm totally against the original bailout but it seems to me like there is a terrible double-standard going on here. If you are a bank, Wall Street, Insurance company (ie. Big money lobbyists in Washington) you will get a big government check without any questions asked nor any need for a "plan" on what will be done with that money. If you are an auto company (apparently not buying enough hookers in DC), then you need to go before a congressional committee, get chastised for corporate jets (I'm sure no CEO or big-wig at Citigroup is flying coach) and must have "Plan" in place before you are even given a "Loan", much less just pure cash injections without any conditions on paying that money back.

Since: Nov 08

Grand Haven, MI

#7 Nov 24, 2008
buy stock in vaseline,,quickly!!
jcv

United States

#9 Nov 24, 2008
Hurley35 wrote:
I'm totally against the original bailout but it seems to me like there is a terrible double-standard going on here. If you are a bank, Wall Street, Insurance company (ie. Big money lobbyists in Washington) you will get a big government check without any questions asked nor any need for a "plan" on what will be done with that money. If you are an auto company (apparently not buying enough hookers in DC), then you need to go before a congressional committee, get chastised for corporate jets (I'm sure no CEO or big-wig at Citigroup is flying coach) and must have "Plan" in place before you are even given a "Loan", much less just pure cash injections without any conditions on paying that money back.
I think you have a good point. I am so unimpressed with all of the corp executives involved.

Since: Sep 08

Zeeland, MI

#10 Nov 24, 2008
Hurley35 wrote:
I'm totally against the original bailout but it seems to me like there is a terrible double-standard going on here. If you are a bank, Wall Street, Insurance company (ie. Big money lobbyists in Washington) you will get a big government check without any questions asked nor any need for a "plan" on what will be done with that money. If you are an auto company (apparently not buying enough hookers in DC), then you need to go before a congressional committee, get chastised for corporate jets (I'm sure no CEO or big-wig at Citigroup is flying coach) and must have "Plan" in place before you are even given a "Loan", much less just pure cash injections without any conditions on paying that money back.
Double standard, my point exactly, what is the difference between Citigroup and GM other than union employees. In fact Citigroup and the other financial institutions have been ripping us royally for years on credit card interest rates. GM was not ripping us off, we and them mistakenly wanted to sell/drive SUVs. I don't think they would be in this mess if gas had not gone to $4+ per gallon and folks abandoned the SUVs. The other difference is the amounts involved. The Big 3 wants a loan of 25 Billion and they get treated like dirt. Wall St gets 100s of Billions just by showing up.

It is worse than a double standard. I believe that the Rush/Sean crowd along with the GOP in Congress are seeing a chance to bust the UAW. In Chapter 11 they would be able to get out of their union contracts. They want to use Chapter 11 to force the Big 3 to dump their legacy costs and abandon their retirees.

I wonder how many corporate jets Citigroup, Wachovia, Bear Stearns, Lehman Bros., AIG, etc. owns/leases. That whole issue was BS. Do people really think the CEO of GM, Ford or Chrysler fly commercial.

Since: Sep 08

Zeeland, MI

#11 Nov 24, 2008
Joanne wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to get your head out of your rear end!!
You need to stop worshipping Rush and Sean, their days are over.

Since: Sep 08

Zeeland, MI

#12 Nov 24, 2008
Union All The Way wrote:
So Citigroup gets 300 billion plus 25 billion injected and people still lost their house. And best the Big 3 to death because they have UAW represented employees. Millions of jobs will be lost and our economy ain't hit bottom yet. 09 unemployment to 18%. Looks like a good year for suicide cleanup companies.
They should have done this from the bottom up by helping folks stay in their house. Instead we get the typical GOP response, trickle down. Except their is no plan, just throw billions at Wall St. and abandon homeowners and union members.

Thank god we have thrown these rotten SOBs out.
lake sailor

Duluth, MN

#13 Nov 24, 2008
The whole bailout idea was wrong from the start ... live or die by the market. As for the banks; no one was forced to accept their brutal credit card rates or bs mortgage agreements ... everyone wanted STUFF and the wanted it NOW instead of saving their money and paying cash. Shame on us.

The Big Three failed the American consumer by continuing to produce big cars with "low" mpg ratings. We bought them up because everyone thought gas would be cheap forever. Shame on everyone.(Personally, I love my little 4 cyl, it fits me, the dog, and ample stuff for hunting and fishing trips. You don't need to drive a truck and spit snuff to be an outdoorsman)

The UAW and Big Three execs need to get their poop in a group and figure out how they can work, together, to keep as many hourly employees as possible employed and as many plants open as needed to produce the TYPE and NUMBER of new cars we need. Excess capacity is just that; excess and just as families have trimmed their budgets, the automakers and unions need to cut the fat and move forward.

As for the banks and insurance companies? If they can't manage their finances, so long, and the smaller community and regional banks that made wise decisions can fill in the gaps.

“Auto Centric”

Since: Nov 08

Grand Rapids

#14 Nov 24, 2008
GR Pete wrote:
That is it, they just announced a 300 Billion+ bailout of Citigroup negotiated behind closed doors over the weekend. The Big 3 execs have to get humiliated on national tv, not once but twice and now they want them to come back for another pounding before they can get a 25 Billion loan. This is blatant union prejudice. Companies that have robbed us blind for years w/o union employees get billions just by showing up and the Big 3 with UAW employees get dissed.
It is time for Levin and Stabenow to stand up and stop this. The GOP is demanding that the Big 3 put themselves in bankruptcy, give up their jets and lower exec pay before they get a dime but Citigroup just shows up and gets over 300 Billion w/o a public hearing.
What the hell is going on?
Mass desparation by clueless leaders.

As far as the Big3 go, the bailout is coming very soon...just be patient.

Since: Nov 08

Grand Haven, MI

#15 Nov 24, 2008
GR Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
They should have done this from the bottom up by helping folks stay in their house. Instead we get the typical GOP response, trickle down. Except their is no plan, just throw billions at Wall St. and abandon homeowners and union members.
Thank god we have thrown these rotten SOBs out.
um,hey pete,as i recall,obama has been nodding yes to all of this,even encouraging it and the democrats are in control of the house and senate,so if they could muster two testicals amongst them,they could,in the words of nancy reagan,"JUST SAY NO"...so ya might want to direct your blame in the appropriate direction!
jcv

United States

#16 Nov 24, 2008
GR Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
Double standard, my point exactly, what is the difference between Citigroup and GM other than union employees. In fact Citigroup and the other financial institutions have been ripping us royally for years on credit card interest rates. GM was not ripping us off, we and them mistakenly wanted to sell/drive SUVs. I don't think they would be in this mess if gas had not gone to $4+ per gallon and folks abandoned the SUVs. The other difference is the amounts involved. The Big 3 wants a loan of 25 Billion and they get treated like dirt. Wall St gets 100s of Billions just by showing up.
It is worse than a double standard. I believe that the Rush/Sean crowd along with the GOP in Congress are seeing a chance to bust the UAW. In Chapter 11 they would be able to get out of their union contracts. They want to use Chapter 11 to force the Big 3 to dump their legacy costs and abandon their retirees.
I wonder how many corporate jets Citigroup, Wachovia, Bear Stearns, Lehman Bros., AIG, etc. owns/leases. That whole issue was BS. Do people really think the CEO of GM, Ford or Chrysler fly commercial.
I guess my point is do we really want to help CEO's that are above flying commercial? That includes the financial companies. I'm not arguing with you GR Pete; I'm not for busting the unions, or hurting the worker in any way. I am so against the arrogance and senselessness of the CEOs. That's probably the best argument as for why unions are needed. I cannot understand how people who are so incompetent are allowed to keep their jobs, and expect to be bailed out when they mess up. The fuel crisis is not new. Remember in the seventies when we had a big scare, and Americans began to conserve? The Big 3 should have anticipated this happening...at least if they had been astute they would have looked into options other than gas guzzling SUVs. Even the regular cars don't get really good gas mileage. This should have been anticipated by all of the auto makers a long time ago.
Seenitbefore

Jenison, MI

#18 Nov 24, 2008
Joanne wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to get your head out of your rear end!!
No he doesn't.

I am against the tax payers bailing out these private corporations that want the government out of their business but have no qualms about asking those very same people for a "hand out".

That being said it makes NO SENSE at all if corporations are going to be bailed out by the tax payers that the ones who actually produce products and jobs for the people to buy products as opposed to just those that are money changers getting a free pass is absurd. I believe ALL these corporate CEOs need to be humiliated and put to task about not running their businesses in the manner that justifies their exorbitant compensation packages and then running to the tax payers to bail them out.

Citicorp and the like NEED to be allowed to fail and turn their assets over to the likes of, say, Wells Fargo that didn't get involved in this madness and in fact tried to turn away any bail out money because they didn't need it.

I find it sad to say even for myself that the Big3 though they have been egregious in the way they ignored their obligations of leadership should be assisted out of this mess. Top management needs to be stripped of their ill gained incomes. It's just that there are more people there that will lose their jobs that actually contribute to the producing of products into the economy for trade rather than just the passing around of money to build their personal wealth from.

We just need to remember that without those who labor for a living 95% of the rest of the population has NOTHING.
Joanne

Scotts, MI

#19 Nov 24, 2008
Seenitbefore wrote:
<quoted text>
No he doesn't.
I am against the tax payers bailing out these private corporations that want the government out of their business but have no qualms about asking those very same people for a "hand out".
That being said it makes NO SENSE at all if corporations are going to be bailed out by the tax payers that the ones who actually produce products and jobs for the people to buy products as opposed to just those that are money changers getting a free pass is absurd. I believe ALL these corporate CEOs need to be humiliated and put to task about not running their businesses in the manner that justifies their exorbitant compensation packages and then running to the tax payers to bail them out.
Citicorp and the like NEED to be allowed to fail and turn their assets over to the likes of, say, Wells Fargo that didn't get involved in this madness and in fact tried to turn away any bail out money because they didn't need it.
I find it sad to say even for myself that the Big3 though they have been egregious in the way they ignored their obligations of leadership should be assisted out of this mess. Top management needs to be stripped of their ill gained incomes. It's just that there are more people there that will lose their jobs that actually contribute to the producing of products into the economy for trade rather than just the passing around of money to build their personal wealth from.
We just need to remember that without those who labor for a living 95% of the rest of the population has NOTHING.
re-read what he wrote! You are clue-less!

Since: Sep 08

Zeeland, MI

#20 Nov 24, 2008
jcv wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess my point is do we really want to help CEO's that are above flying commercial? That includes the financial companies. I'm not arguing with you GR Pete; I'm not for busting the unions, or hurting the worker in any way. I am so against the arrogance and senselessness of the CEOs. That's probably the best argument as for why unions are needed. I cannot understand how people who are so incompetent are allowed to keep their jobs, and expect to be bailed out when they mess up. The fuel crisis is not new. Remember in the seventies when we had a big scare, and Americans began to conserve? The Big 3 should have anticipated this happening...at least if they had been astute they would have looked into options other than gas guzzling SUVs. Even the regular cars don't get really good gas mileage. This should have been anticipated by all of the auto makers a long time ago.
I know, I know the private jets are hard to swallow but that is just a diversion. Why are we spending all this time on 25 Billion for the Big 3 when we are shoveling money like coal into a locomotive for Wall St. We should have taken all their jets and big salaries away as part of a bail out but then Rush/Sean would be screaming "Socialism."

I disagree with you to some extent on their plans. I think we thought gas was going to go up but not as quickly or high as it did. People were willing to pay $2.50 or so and drive SUVs. In a Tahoe or Suburban 20 gallons of gas would still be only about $50. When it started pushing $100 that was the breaking point.

I drive a Bonneville. I get better than 20 mpg overall in a full sized car. It is over 25 mpg on the highway. They made more fuel efficient cars but folks did not buy them. The whole Saturn line was an effort to compete with Toyota, Honda etc. but it has never caught on. When I went to the GR Car Show this year the nicest cars where the Buicks and Saturns, are they selling? There is no doubt that the Big 3 blew it by not responding earlier and quicker to the oil crisis but it is not as if the GOP and the oil companies were begging them to stop building Lincoln Navigators and Cadillac Escalades.

Since: Sep 08

Zeeland, MI

#21 Nov 24, 2008
Joanne wrote:
<quoted text> re-read what he wrote! You are clue-less!
He read what I wrote, you are clueless, just like Rush/Sean, John Boehner, Mitt Romney and others praying for the Big 3 to go into bankruptcy. Millions of jobs are at stake. Big 3 employees and retirees spend billions in the economy. We already threw real money at the money shufflers, we need to throw the crumbs at the Big 3 that they are asking for to survive.

Since: Sep 08

Zeeland, MI

#22 Nov 24, 2008
just kill me wrote:
<quoted text>
um,hey pete,as i recall,obama has been nodding yes to all of this,even encouraging it and the democrats are in control of the house and senate,so if they could muster two testicals amongst them,they could,in the words of nancy reagan,"JUST SAY NO"...so ya might want to direct your blame in the appropriate direction!
This is a complicated mess. This was originally a GOP plan pushed by the Administration. Dem efforts to make it more bottom up than top down were ridiculed. A compromise was reached and rejected, than another compromise that did even less for the everyman was passed and money started flowing to Wall St. Now, after ramrodding this through the GOP wants to back away from it and pretend it was the Dems that came up with this, say what?

I agree with your analysis of the Dem testosterone levels. They took over Congress in January of 2007. They should have immediately started impeachment proceedings in my opinion of both Bush and Cheney. Just the torture and warrantless wiretapping were enough, you did not even have to get into the Iraq War issues. Many of them caved on the bankruptcy bill,(including Stabenow), FISA, Patriot Act, Military Commissions etc. Then they let Bush bullrush them into another bad deal with the bailout. Pelosi and Reid have to go. Rahm Emanuel should be Speaker of the House.

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