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21 - 40 of 73 Comments Last updated Jan 25, 2013
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#21
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Bob wrote:
Some day the short bus may drop you off at the classroom that teaches you how to read and comphrehend a news story.
Is that what your mommy said to you this morning, short bus Bob?
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#22
Jan 21, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
Expecting criminals to abide by laws
Precisely...so tell me how more restrictive gun laws are going to help? Keep in mind how successful anti drug laws have been at keeping drugs off the streets before you answer.
cannonfodder

Belmont, MI

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#23
Jan 21, 2013
 
Taylor knew about "control" in a big way. But then, ask yourself, why did he hire such a bumbler in the first place.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#24
Jan 21, 2013
 

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vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
Precisely...so tell me how more restrictive gun laws are going to help? Keep in mind how successful anti drug laws have been at keeping drugs off the streets before you answer.
It's very true that laws don't STOP crime. But laws do deter many who will not act in a certain way because they will have to pay an unpleasant consequence. Plus laws create a way to "punish" unacceptable actions.

Of course laws will be broken. People break speed laws all the time. But because there are laws there is a means by which to deter many and/or remove those who would break them repetitively.

Drugs create a physiological addiction which [physiologically] causes the "necessity" to repeat their usage. There is no physiological addiction to the owing and using of weapons, much less for deadly purposes. That "addiction", though it may be strong, is psychological in nature. I would even say it's not an addiction as much as it's a strong desire. Desires can be curtailed.

In other words purely the owing of a weapon does not create the "addiction". Drugs do create the addiction.

So put together the physiological addiction to drugs combined with the "free wheeling" availability of weapons that kill from a distance is not a good thing for anyone.

And yes it's a nice thought that good guys with guns kill bad guys with guns but, using the example of guns and drugs, a good guy carrying can be shot by the bad guy out of sight to steal the money needed for the drugs.

And as there are laws there are likely less people addicted to drugs and less people who would use a gun than there would be without the laws.

But no. Laws are not the panacea. And neither is no laws.
St Stephen

Grand Rapids, MI

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#25
Jan 21, 2013
 

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If these guys had just looked into penile enhancement products these injuries could have been avoided.
Dr X

Grand Rapids, MI

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#27
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Some day the short bus may drop you off at the classroom that teaches you how to read and comphrehend a news story. Now follow carefully as I'm not using a crayon, but maybe you'll get it!
See the word SHOWS in the title? That's a plural, which means more than one show. If fact three different shows witnessed the ineptness of how to handle a deadly weapon. One mouth breather didn't see anything wrong with carrying an encased and loaded shotgun into the show. Any bets the safety was off?
The second shooting was a gun dealer, like you'd think they'd know something about what they were selling, shooting his buddy after failing to make sure the weapon he picked up was cleared and safe.
The last idiot from NC shot himself, which is probably the best way for some of this people to learn from such a mistake. Wasn't Mayberry located somewhere near there? Maybe these people should be forced to do what Sheriff Taylro did to Barney..... Carry his one bullet in his shirt pocket!
Oh, I'm sorry. I meant propaganda, not gossip. All the LWMOs out there are cranking up the machine for Adolf Obama and his brownshirt liberal utopian freaks. Huffington wouldn't have even bothered printing this story 6 months ago and you know it.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#28
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Dr X wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, I'm sorry. I meant propaganda, not gossip. All the LWMOs out there are cranking up the machine for Adolf Obama and his brownshirt liberal utopian freaks. Huffington wouldn't have even bothered printing this story 6 months ago and you know it.
This article is completely in tune with the tenor of the country after the Sandy Creek shootings. Blowing it out of proportion like you just did only serves to be inflammatory for it's own sake.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#29
Jan 21, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
In other words purely the owing of a weapon does not create the "addiction".
Neither does the owning of a weapon create a homicidal criminal. We already have lots of laws on the books regarding the use of guns and committing crimes with them. Please tell me why we need more in light of what we've already established.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#30
Jan 21, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
And as there are laws there are likely less people addicted to drugs
LOL...tell that to people like short bus Bob and St. Stoner who say the war on drugs is a failure and we should all admit it, make drugs legal and let everyone who wants to become an addict have at it.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#32
Jan 21, 2013
 

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vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL...tell that to people like short bus Bob and St. Stoner who say the war on drugs is a failure and we should all admit it, make drugs legal and let everyone who wants to become an addict have at it.
The "war on drugs" IS a complete failure. The War on Drugs had little to do with the laws against drugs.

I don't remember them saying the rest though.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#33
Jan 21, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
The "war on drugs" IS a complete failure.
I see...so you're in favor of letting people become addicts. In that light, I can see where you might want to see the populace disarmed.
Soon, rather than having a division in this country between 'haves' and have nots', we'll have a division between 'stoned' and 'sober'.
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

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#34
Jan 21, 2013
 
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither does the owning of a weapon create a homicidal criminal. We already have lots of laws on the books regarding the use of guns and committing crimes with them. Please tell me why we need more in light of what we've already established.
And having read some of what Mr. Obama signed, I laughed myself silly. He didn't really do anything but puff himself up and use children as shields to try to convince everyone he was important. He just reiterated the laws that are already on the books. Wow, that was impressive! Next crisis please.
St Stephen

Grand Rapids, MI

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#35
Jan 21, 2013
 

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vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL...tell that to people like short bus Bob and St. Stoner who say the war on drugs is a failure and we should all admit it, make drugs legal and let everyone who wants to become an addict have at it.
Don't know where you read that I said that because I didn't. Some drugs should be legalized, controlled and regulated. I feel the same about guns.
Dr X

Grand Rapids, MI

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#36
Jan 21, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
This article is completely in tune with the tenor of the country after the Sandy Creek shootings. Blowing it out of proportion like you just did only serves to be inflammatory for it's own sake.
Oh, the fear! Fear blinds us SIB and it's used frequently to promote ideological ideas in the form of legislation that, at best, is unwise and at worst, unconstitutional. I have no doubt that going forward into the new year we'll be seeing articles highlighting gun accidents and tragedies from mostly LWNM outlets while at the same time, reading the defensive print from the CMOs.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#37
Jan 21, 2013
 
Dr X wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, the fear! Fear blinds us SIB and it's used frequently to promote ideological ideas in the form of legislation that, at best, is unwise and at worst, unconstitutional. I have no doubt that going forward into the new year we'll be seeing articles highlighting gun accidents and tragedies from mostly LWNM outlets while at the same time, reading the defensive print from the CMOs.
I agree there's a huge hurdle considering the definition of infringed. As it has been from the beginning of the 2nd Amendment.

Nobody figured something like The Brady Bill could come about until the assasasination attempt on Reagan. But it did under unusual circumstances. A little surprising as, as I remember it, there wasn't near the fuss over the 2nd Amendment after Kennedy was assassinated.

I DO NOT like the idea of "gun control" but something rational has to be done. And I don't think caging the rest of us up to protect us from the "bad guys" is the answer either.

And yes fear. Fear is also the rational behind NOT doing anything. The fear of 'as long as guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns' type of fear mongering. Or fear of if the 2nd Amendment is abolished the government will run in and enslave us all. Acknowledging it has historically been done.

I don't believe disarmament will happen. I also don't believe those types of weapons are necessary for the ordinary citizen to own.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#38
Jan 21, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
The "war on drugs" IS a complete failure. The War on Drugs had little to do with the laws against drugs.
I don't remember them saying the rest though.
Here's one of proofs the "war on drugs" was not only a complete failure but a shame.
Be sure to follow the backup proof links.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ciadrug...
Dr X

Grand Rapids, MI

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#39
Jan 21, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree there's a huge hurdle considering the definition of infringed. As it has been from the beginning of the 2nd Amendment.
Nobody figured something like The Brady Bill could come about until the assasasination attempt on Reagan. But it did under unusual circumstances. A little surprising as, as I remember it, there wasn't near the fuss over the 2nd Amendment after Kennedy was assassinated.
I DO NOT like the idea of "gun control" but something rational has to be done. And I don't think caging the rest of us up to protect us from the "bad guys" is the answer either.
And yes fear. Fear is also the rational behind NOT doing anything. The fear of 'as long as guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns' type of fear mongering. Or fear of if the 2nd Amendment is abolished the government will run in and enslave us all. Acknowledging it has historically been done.
I don't believe disarmament will happen. I also don't believe those types of weapons are necessary for the ordinary citizen to own.


"I don't believe disarmament will happen. I also don't believe those types of weapons are necessary for the ordinary citizen to own".

You're right, Americans will not be disarmed. I respect your opinion on ownership restrictions of certain types of firearms although I disagree with it. By that reasoning, we should ban Corvettes. I mean, everyone knows that speed kills on the highway so my question is; why does a driver need a car that has a top speed twice the average highway speed limit in the United States? Isn't it the drivers responsibility and not the cars power that's in question?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#40
Jan 21, 2013
 
Dr X wrote:
<quoted text>
"I don't believe disarmament will happen. I also don't believe those types of weapons are necessary for the ordinary citizen to own".
You're right, Americans will not be disarmed. I respect your opinion on ownership restrictions of certain types of firearms although I disagree with it. By that reasoning, we should ban Corvettes. I mean, everyone knows that speed kills on the highway so my question is; why does a driver need a car that has a top speed twice the average highway speed limit in the United States? Isn't it the drivers responsibility and not the cars power that's in question?
You do realize don't you that at the time the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution the weaponry everyone had were muskets. And it can be proven, by reinactment, if not acknowledged by common sense, that NO ONE with a musket could kill as many people in such a short time before someone could interfere and take the gunman down at Sandy Creek, the Colorado theater, etc. Even if they were to try and carry in lots of guns to do a lot of damage they would not be able to carry in that much weight. Much less hide it under clothing to conceal it. People would be able to see something not good was intended to go down.

Doesn't make a difference? Or maybe you can explain how what has happened could be with the weapons available at the time the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution.
free thinker

Southfield, MI

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#41
Jan 22, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
You do realize don't you that at the time the 2nd Amendment was added to the Constitution the weaponry everyone had were muskets.
You do realize, don't you, that at the the first amendment was added to the constitution,'speech' was limited to the written word on paper, speaking to other people or perhaps shouting at a town meeting. The founding fathers never imagined land lines, telephones, cell phones, Cable TV, Movies, internet, Twitter, Facebook, etc...so when you submit your idea on paper written with a quill and ink or go shout it in the town square, we'll consider your silly illogical idea.
free thinker

Southfield, MI

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#42
Jan 22, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
It's very true that laws don't STOP crime. But laws do deter many who will not act in a certain way because they will have to pay an unpleasant consequence.
Right...and when you intend to suicide after killing however many people you can or you go into it fully expecting the cops to kill you, those consequences don't mean much. Also, it seems that the consequences didn't stop the Colorado shooter as well...or the Virginia Tech shooter...or the Columbine shooters...or the Fort Hood Shooter...or thy guy who shot Gabby Giffords.... Come to think of it, I don't beleive I've ever seen a report that states someone DIDN'T commit a mass shooting crime because they were afraid of the consequences. Got a link to one?
The only people that laws inpact are those that care about laws (ie law abiding citizens), not criminals.

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