created by: Dominic | Jan 23, 2011

Grand Rapids, MI

78 votes

What do you think about abortion and Roe v Wade anniversary?

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  • Abortion is great, gives women their freedom
  • It disgusts me

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Detroit, MI

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#21
Jan 26, 2011
 

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trikeman wrote:
<quoted text>
i still don't understand you guys with your "all or none" approach to this subject. if a woman is gang-raped, does she have to bear and raise the resulting product?
First of all, abortion as a result of rape comprise 1% or less of all abortions performed in the US today (# 1 and # 2 reasons, respectively are: 1) having a baby would interfere with my life and 2) having a baby would interfere with my education). Next, please explain to me how a woman who has already been brutalized and traumtized will be helped by subjecting herself to another invasive, traumatic and painful procedure? Abortion 'undo' or 'cure' the rape, nor does it heal the trauma that resulted from it; in fact, it merely adds another layer of trauma onto an already traumatized individual and leaves them with long lasting psychological consequences. I can understand how a woman would not want to raise a child conceived through rape, but there are thousands of couples out there waiting to adopt.
In only study ever performed, 85% of the women who became pregnant as a result of rape chose AGAINST abortion:
Mahkorn, "Pregnancy and Sexual Assault," The Psychological Aspects of Abortion, eds. Mall & Watts,(Washington, D.C., University Publications of America, 1979) 55-69
trikeman wrote:
if a fetus is determined to have multiple birth defects, must this mother be obligated to bear it and raise it, knowing perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars will be spent keeping it alive?
Again, this comprises roughly 3%(only listed on the table as 'possible problem', not 'severely deformed' or 'multiple birth defects', so I'm sure those would be in the 1% or less category as well.
Now...are you saying that the life worth living and preserving is that which is perfectly formed and in 100% good health?

Since: Jan 11

Johnson City, TN

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#22
Jan 26, 2011
 
say what wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, abortion as a result of rape comprise 1% or less of all abortions performed in the US today (# 1 and # 2 reasons, respectively are: 1) having a baby would interfere with my life and 2) having a baby would interfere with my education). Next, please explain to me how a woman who has already been brutalized and traumtized will be helped by subjecting herself to another invasive, traumatic and painful procedure? Abortion 'undo' or 'cure' the rape, nor does it heal the trauma that resulted from it; in fact, it merely adds another layer of trauma onto an already traumatized individual and leaves them with long lasting psychological consequences. I can understand how a woman would not want to raise a child conceived through rape, but there are thousands of couples out there waiting to adopt.
In only study ever performed, 85% of the women who became pregnant as a result of rape chose AGAINST abortion:
Mahkorn, "Pregnancy and Sexual Assault," The Psychological Aspects of Abortion, eds. Mall & Watts,(Washington, D.C., University Publications of America, 1979) 55-69
<quoted text>
Again, this comprises roughly 3%(only listed on the table as 'possible problem', not 'severely deformed' or 'multiple birth defects', so I'm sure those would be in the 1% or less category as well.
Now...are you saying that the life worth living and preserving is that which is perfectly formed and in 100% good health?
you want to change the argument, and i won't let you. sorry. you must, then, be agreeing that abortion is acceptable in certain cases. that is different from what you and yours were saying earlier. their silence, btw, speaks volumes.
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Detroit, MI

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#23
Jan 26, 2011
 
trikeman wrote:
you want to change the argument, and i won't let you. sorry. you must, then, be agreeing that abortion is acceptable in certain cases. that is different from what you and yours were saying earlier. their silence, btw, speaks volumes.
Care to link to what I supposedly said earlier and then explain how it differs from what I said above, assuming you can provide said link?

Since: Jan 11

Johnson City, TN

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#24
Jan 26, 2011
 

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say what wrote:
<quoted text>
Care to link to what I supposedly said earlier and then explain how it differs from what I said above, assuming you can provide said link?
sorry, i confused you with "whatever". say what, whatever.....i'm old, and monikers sometimes confuse me...

whatever;)

“November 12th, 2011”

Since: Nov 07

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#25
Jan 26, 2011
 

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Don't believe in abortion...then don't have one. It really is that simple.

Here's a novel idea; have every taxpayer check a box on their tax return whether or not they believe in abortion. Those that don't should be subject to an additional tax that would pay for the costs associated with letting these "babies" live since they took away a mothers right to choose for themselves. I think we would all be amazed at how fast the vast majority of taxpayers would suddenly be pro choice.

I would also like to see all you right to lifers put your money where your mouths are, not just a 25 dollar donation once a year.

Why not petition then fund Right to Life to build and run orphanages is every state and provide other services to women who would have otherwise had an abortion. With all the money they take in to combat abortion politically it shouldn't require that much more cash.

Just my opinion though and I will now await my bashing.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

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#26
Jan 26, 2011
 
Some good points. Although, what about overpopulation?

In China or Africa where overpopulation is a real problem, food resources being scarce especially in Africa, food wars going on in parts of the world....imagine if every child was born in China and they did not have their one child law. How would this world sustain itself? How would China feed their people? Where would they house them? How many new schools would need to be built? The list goes on.

While not having sex is a great way to not get pregnant, not everyone can do that. While birth control tends to be an issue with people of faith (not bashing, just bringing up a fact) especially in Africa, it is not helping the number of births to slow down at all. If birth rates continue to be on the rise and doubling in size even here in the US, how will this world sustain everyone?

Since: Oct 07

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#27
Jan 26, 2011
 
-LMS- wrote:
I don't feel abortion is "great", however, it doesn't disgust me.
As many times as this topic has been debated, I doubt you will find too many people that will comment. Then again, it has been awhile since this topic has been debated, so you never know! LOL
At any rate, this is such a touchy subject (obviously). On a personal note, when my mom got pregnant at 16 with me, she wanted to have an abortion. The man she decided to pin the pregnancy on wouldn't have it. So, here I am. Now, on one hand I think I would rather not have lived the childhood that I did filled with abusive, alcoholic parents that were teens. And later went through the nastiest divorce in the county where I had to testify at age 12 on the stand. On the other hand, I lived through everything and now have a great life and three handsome children of my own.
On another personal note, while I have always thought that I could never have an abortion myself, the thought has crossed my mind of what-ifs. For instance, I had a tubular ligation after my third child because I knew I didn't want any more. But I know several people that have gotten pregnant after that procedure and it has made me think about what would I do? Part of me says that if it happened, then God wanted it to and I should feel blessed. The other part says I really don't want another child. I really, really don't. Hopefully I never find myself in that predicament.
I have always felt (and still do) that it is a woman's right to choose. It is her body first and foremost. Again though, on the other hand, when one of my good friends called to tell me that she had an abortion, I broke down crying. A reaction I didn't expect.
So it isn't always so black and white. Just because I am pro-choice doesn't mean that I think abortion is great or think it's the way to go. But forcing an unwanted child on a person ends up with that child losing. Often times living a miserable life.
There is no right or wrong answer on this subject.
Leave it to a man to start a poll with loaded questions about a woman's body.... sigh.
say what

Grand Rapids, MI

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#28
Jan 26, 2011
 
Amazarak wrote:
imagine if every child was born in China and they did not have their one child law. How would this world sustain itself?
Give it another generation of two in China and they'll be well on their way to controlling their 'population problem'. Thanks to their one child policy, there is now a severe shortage of marriagable women since males are strongly preferred over females (sons are an asset, daughters, a liability) and given that they are restricted to one child, many have chosen to abort female fetuses (or engage in infanticide after the fact). Less women, less children. Problem solved.
Sandy

Grand Rapids, MI

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#29
Jan 26, 2011
 

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Abortion is really about a sick ideology of selfishness for people who refuse to practice any kind of self-restraint. 99% of all abortions are done as a method of birth control. The next step is legalizing infanticide, using the argument that disabled children are expendable in their first year or two, because clearly they are not "viable" on their own, just as the pro-abortion lobby claims unborn children are also not "viable." There are millions of childless couples in the USA and around the world desperate to adopt - why is abortion even necessary? It goes back to the utter selfishness of people practicing their so-called "reproductive freedom." "Reproductive Freedom" is a lie that a lot of women believe, thinking that it allows them sexual freedom, when, if anything, it absolves the male of any kind of responsibility by giving them an easy way out - destroying the child. What a sick society we live in - it does not value life, only material things.
Dominic

Grand Rapids, MI

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#30
Jan 26, 2011
 
Abortion = culture of death, brought to you by people who have zero regard for the lives of others and act only for their own pleasure and convenience.

Since: Dec 10

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#31
Jan 26, 2011
 

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MIbowhunter wrote:
Don't believe in abortion...then don't have one. It really is that simple.
Here's a novel idea; have every taxpayer check a box on their tax return whether or not they believe in abortion. Those that don't should be subject to an additional tax that would pay for the costs associated with letting these "babies" live since they took away a mothers right to choose for themselves. I think we would all be amazed at how fast the vast majority of taxpayers would suddenly be pro choice.
I would also like to see all you right to lifers put your money where your mouths are, not just a 25 dollar donation once a year.
Why not petition then fund Right to Life to build and run orphanages is every state and provide other services to women who would have otherwise had an abortion. With all the money they take in to combat abortion politically it shouldn't require that much more cash.
Just my opinion though and I will now await my bashing.
Not gonna bash, just suggest that you look up and see who is providing the adoption services in a lot of the states. Right to Life is an organization that has some good and some bad. If everyone was as concerned about the children both before AND after they were born, things would change. As it is, Abortion is the law of the land, per the US Supreme Court. Unless and until a case comes to them and they change their minds, it will stay the law of the land. I have a friend who had an abortion, years ago. She told me that if she had it to do over, she would have given the baby up for adoption. Abortion is an emotional trauma that a women never get over.

“November 12th, 2011”

Since: Nov 07

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#32
Jan 26, 2011
 

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The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>Not gonna bash, just suggest that you look up and see who is providing the adoption services in a lot of the states. Right to Life is an organization that has some good and some bad. If everyone was as concerned about the children both before AND after they were born, things would change. As it is, Abortion is the law of the land, per the US Supreme Court. Unless and until a case comes to them and they change their minds, it will stay the law of the land. I have a friend who had an abortion, years ago. She told me that if she had it to do over, she would have given the baby up for adoption. Abortion is an emotional trauma that a women never get over.
Point taken, I appreciate the thoughtful response. They are getting rare around here.

Since: Oct 07

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#33
Jan 26, 2011
 
The Real Sandy wrote:
<quoted text>Not gonna bash, just suggest that you look up and see who is providing the adoption services in a lot of the states. Right to Life is an organization that has some good and some bad. If everyone was as concerned about the children both before AND after they were born, things would change. As it is, Abortion is the law of the land, per the US Supreme Court. Unless and until a case comes to them and they change their minds, it will stay the law of the land. I have a friend who had an abortion, years ago. She told me that if she had it to do over, she would have given the baby up for adoption. Abortion is an emotional trauma that a women never get over.
I agree with this post. Some women never have the emotional trauma over it but some can't handle it. I'd say that if you're having any second thoughts at all, and if you can, go the adoption route. There will be no regrets later and someone who desparately wants a baby gets one.
Banner reader

Grand Rapids, MI

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#34
Jan 26, 2011
 
Many great points.

I am quite sure that I am the ONLY "Anti Right to Life" member of my CRC church.(In the closet no doubt)

My friend worked labor and delivery for 20 years in a big hospital in the Chicago area. She was a devout Catholic who many times had struggled with this issue.

Babies are being born daily to mothers who are prostitutes, alcoholics, crack addicted, abused, and to mothers who really do not want them. For my friend it was extremely painful sending a newborn off to a life one can only imagine.
But what really bothers me is how the Right to Life crowd, more often than not, really have no skin in the game. Oh, they sign petitions, stand on their soap box, line the streets in the fall, put candles in their windows, send form letters to politicians when told, board buses to DC on occasion, donate money to RTL, and even have Special Right to Life Sunday services... but where is the follow up to these unwanted, uncared for children for the long term.
Itís really easy..IMOÖ to have such passion saving all these unborn babiesÖ because itís still unborn and they donít have to bothered with the reality.
I am weary of the abortion debate. It will never be reversed because politicians know that most people will bark and bark...but never bite...so they will put up with the noise knowing that the barking will stop eventually... and on and on and on.
I don't think abortion is right, but for the pro life crowd out there if you are only barking a few time a year, maybe you should rethink your battle plan and get serious. It's not that I think abortion is ok, because I don't. I'm just annoyed with a few barks and they call it good.

Note: I said I was Anti Right to Life because they have become way to political and politics breeds corruption.

Since: Dec 10

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#35
Jan 27, 2011
 

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scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with this post. Some women never have the emotional trauma over it but some can't handle it. I'd say that if you're having any second thoughts at all, and if you can, go the adoption route. There will be no regrets later and someone who desparately wants a baby gets one.
Well, I have to disagree with your point about adoption causing no regrets. I have a couple of friends who gave their babies up for adoption and they still regret that decision and wonder about their child every day. So, no matter which route is taken, there are regrets, at least for those with a conscience they pay attention to. Not all women use abortion as birth control, but there is an element out there that does.

“Lost in the middle somewhere..”

Since: Nov 07

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#36
Jan 27, 2011
 
scambuster wrote:
<quoted text>
Leave it to a man to start a poll with loaded questions about a woman's body.... sigh.
Hi ya sweetie! That same thought crossed my mind when I entered this thread!

“Lost in the middle somewhere..”

Since: Nov 07

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#37
Jan 27, 2011
 
Allegan Dan wrote:
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Miss you too baby! I try to stay in touch, but you know how it is; 90% of the crap on here is just that, and not worth my time. I really enjoyed your post so thought I'd throw one out there...Oh and you can disregard the 'treadmill' comment; I'm sure you and I can find a more creative way to burn off those calories.:-)
Well, I have to agree with you. Just when I begin to think that Topix Grand Rapids is becoming boring and going around in circles over and over, all of a sudden a thread pops up that I get interested in. Topix is like an addiction.

So, if we don't need the treadmill, what did you have in mind? The LMS and A-Red fans are dying to know!:-)
Mark

Rockford, MI

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#38
Jan 27, 2011
 
MIbowhunter wrote:
I would also like to see all you right to lifers put your money where your mouths are, not just a 25 dollar donation once a year.
Why not petition then fund Right to Life to build and run orphanages is every state and provide other services to women who would have otherwise had an abortion. With all the money they take in to combat abortion politically it shouldn't require that much more cash.
Not a bashing but this propaganda must be opposed. All kinds of services are being offered, however in this culture of death, most people don't hear about it as "it infringes on women's right to choose"
Here's an article that hopefully will shed light on the subject for you,
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/01/17/pro-life-p...
Mark

Rockford, MI

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#39
Jan 27, 2011
 
Banner reader wrote:
Many great points.

But what really bothers me is how the Right to Life crowd, more often than not, really have no skin in the game. Oh, they sign petitions, stand on their soap box, line the streets in the fall, put candles in their windows, send form letters to politicians when told, board buses to DC on occasion, donate money to RTL, and even have Special Right to Life Sunday services... but where is the follow up to these unwanted, uncared for children for the long term.
another opportunity to post the article...this is propaganda.
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/01/17/pro-life-p...

You are welcome to join in the fight for life in a number of ways.
Banner reader

Grand Rapids, MI

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#40
Jan 27, 2011
 
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>another opportunity to post the article...this is propaganda.
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/01/17/pro-life-p...
You are welcome to join in the fight for life in a number of ways.
While I would respect your passion on this issue I will take a pass on your invitation. There are many things at this point in time, IMO, that are more pressing than handing out free stuff.

We have a president marching the country to the brink of financial collapse, socialism is knocking at the door, Iran is building nuclear weapons, our public schools and colleges(including Calvin) have become progressive assembly lines and social justice is being forced down our throats.(Even the Banner is nudging it's readers toward the left.)
Progressives, democrats, liberals, socialists and whatever else they decide to call themselves are NOT pro life. So, if we do not stop this progressive attack on our nation any hope to reverse Roe vs Wade can be kissed goodbye. If the RTL rank and file choose to spend their time fighting the fire with a squirt gun...best of luck.

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