free thinker

Farmington, MI

#81 Jun 10, 2013
Oneal wrote:
No legislation has been passed that I know of that allows for the government to record hundreds of millions of presumably innocent American citizens' cellphone usage without a valid reason. The PATRIOT Act only covered tracking of suspected terrorists, not people who have done virtually nothing to be remotely affiliated with terrorism.
And let's not forget that they STILL managed to miss the Boston bombers for all their claims that this is necessary to protect us from terrorists. I'd call that an epic fail.
free thinker

Farmington, MI

#82 Jun 10, 2013
Oneal wrote:
Perfect!... further branding himself a troll, Bob resorts to the cheapest form of cyber a-hole antics; faking the words in someone's post.
LOL...and this from the window-licking, helmet-wearing little troll that calls others cowardly.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#84 Jun 10, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
That's nice except what you are describing is passive and is not used to screen for future behavior. What if the police were running your license plate, using that to check your driving record as well as your credit score and your IRS returns. Based on that information you were then tagged as a friend of the police and allowed to speed (limit +10) or tagged as a non-friend, pulled over and ticketed at limit +2?
The issue with the NSA, IRS, EPA, etc are because they are involved in active surveillance,the premise of which is that everyone is guilty until proven innocent. History has shown that governments that act that way very quickly become abusive to those in the population that they deem to be "enemies."
You may not be old enough but going back in time, if we had read that Communist Russia was doing this to their citizens forty years ago it wouldn't have been a shock to anyone. To think that the government monitoring their citizens movements & behavior would have been considered normal for the USSR in the '60's and the USA today shows how far our folks have fallen.
Ummmm, not so sure all of it is "passive". The red light cameras record the license plate number. Also, to add to that, going through any of the Toll Road booths or using EZPass also records your license plate and some pretty good pictures of the driver in most cases. Another one to add is the police cars and parking meter scanners that have the cameras mounted on the trunk. There's lots of them around here...I don't remember seeing them in Michigan but I have not been there much in the last 7 years.
They regularly post them at certain locations and obviously know what license plates (and the owners of them) pass by on what day and what time.
That being said, I'm of the baby boomer generation so yes I am very familiar with the days of the Iron Curtain and Russia.
I don't know what the answer is and I don't think I like some of what we are hearing but also I don't know to what extreme we need to allow our government and it's intelligence agencies to go to to gather the information they need to try to keep us safe.
Thanks for the civil conversation and have a nice day.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#85 Jun 10, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:

I don't know what the answer is and I don't think I like some of what we are hearing but also I don't know to what extreme we need to allow our government and it's intelligence agencies to go to to gather the information they need to try to keep us safe.
Yeah...go ask the victims of the Boston bomber how well that 'keeping us safe' thing worked for them.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#86 Jun 10, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>Ummmm, not so sure all of it is "passive". The red light cameras record the license plate number. Also, to add to that, going through any of the Toll Road booths or using EZPass also records your license plate and some pretty good pictures of the driver in most cases. Another one to add is the police cars and parking meter scanners that have the cameras mounted on the trunk. There's lots of them around here...I don't remember seeing them in Michigan but I have not been there much in the last 7 years.
They regularly post them at certain locations and obviously know what license plates (and the owners of them) pass by on what day and what time.
That being said, I'm of the baby boomer generation so yes I am very familiar with the days of the Iron Curtain and Russia.
I don't know what the answer is and I don't think I like some of what we are hearing but also I don't know to what extreme we need to allow our government and it's intelligence agencies to go to to gather the information they need to try to keep us safe.
Thanks for the civil conversation and have a nice day.
The red light cameras only record if you run a red light. They don't record every plate that goes through the intersection. Yes the police video tape every stop but they have to stop you first. They don't just run every plate, assuming guilt and then pull over people.

Monitoring phones, regulating soft drinks, eliminating playground equipment, etc. are all done in the name of government protecting people. Yes, the government has a duty to protect me from enemies "foreign and domestic" but not to presume every citizen is an enemy until proven otherwise.

First they came…” is a famous statement and provocative poem attributed to pastor Martin Niemöller and right now, given the news it seems to be applicable to our current government. Right now we may only be at the "first" but where do we go from here?

You and I may not be first but are we third or fourth or ... Accepting the loss of liberty to the first makes us accomplices and gives us no right to complain when it is our turn.
Mark Luxford

Grand Rapids, MI

#88 Jun 11, 2013
vox veritatis wrote:
Isn't it so typically hypocritical that the person who is now POTUS, was vehemently against the Patriot Act under Bush but then he turns around and expands it far beyond what the originator every intended or had in mind as soon as he got the chance. Hypocritical? Yes. Surprising? Hardly. What else should we expect from the product of Chicago politics?
Actually, it's not uncommon for a presidential candidate to change their position on issues when they're elected. With election comes Presidential Daily Briefings and other information that we are not aware of. That new information can change their perspectives, and accept what was unacceptable to them as a candidate. And by the way, former NSA and CIA head Michael Haden was on Fox News Sunday last Sunday and explained the program. The call information goes into a database which is untouched unless a known or suspected foreign terrorist is detected using their cell phone. At that point they can go into that database and search for any phone numbers in this country that were in contact with that cell phone. In this way, possible terrorists in this country can be identified and monitored. Haden said that neither Bush nor Obama have abused the program and that Obama has in fact strengthened the Congressional and Court oversight of the program. Are you going to throw Haden and Republicans like Congressman Mike Rogers (head of the House Intelligence Committee) under the bus because they support the program?
Mark Luxford

Grand Rapids, MI

#89 Jun 11, 2013
free thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
And let's not forget that they STILL managed to miss the Boston bombers for all their claims that this is necessary to protect us from terrorists. I'd call that an epic fail.
Let's not forget why they missed the Boston Bombers. The FBI was informed of concerns that the older brother was becoming radicalized. They interviewd him, his family and associates, but no red flags. When the FBI was informed that the older brother had made a trip to Chesnya they contacted Russia's intelligence agency twice to get any information they could from them concerning the brother and his activities on that trip, but the Russians ignored the requests for information. There was simply no solid evidence that the older brother was a terrorist suspect, so there was nothing for the authorities to act on.
free thinker

Farmington, MI

#90 Jun 11, 2013
Mark Luxford wrote:
Let's not forget why they missed the Boston Bombers.
You're either dense as a brick or totally missing the point on purpose. The main reason provided for this massive data mining operation the government has going is that grabbing the phone records of all Americans is supposed to keep us safe from terrorists. It didn't work too well in this case. So...you want to assert that the Boston bombers never used their cell phones (which we know is not the case)? That they never said anything on those cell phones that might have been concerning? Here are two people that they actually had reason to be looking at and apparantly, they missed it altogether and it's not the first time, either. Another epic fail.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#91 Jun 11, 2013
free thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
You're either dense as a brick or totally missing the point on purpose. The main reason provided for this massive data mining operation the government has going is that grabbing the phone records of all Americans is supposed to keep us safe from terrorists. It didn't work too well in this case. So...you want to assert that the Boston bombers never used their cell phones (which we know is not the case)? That they never said anything on those cell phones that might have been concerning? Here are two people that they actually had reason to be looking at and apparantly, they missed it altogether and it's not the first time, either. Another epic fail.
Unfortunately this is all Legal under the USA Patriot act, courtesy of the Bush administration. Bush made it, and Obama made it worse! So far, I believe Obama to be one of the worst presidents ever when it comes to violating constitutional rights of Americans. What he's doing is indefensible.

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."
Chip

Roscoe, IL

#92 Jun 11, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup, almost as hypocritical as the people who didn't see any problem with it until the current administration decided to use it!
Buddy!
The difference is that Bush never lied to us about it. I wouldn't expect you to pick up on that because things like character and integrity are things you hate.

Also, I don't really car if the government listens to my phone calls because I have nothing to hide, I do care when I am lied to about it by president Pinocchio.
Rob

United States

#93 Jun 11, 2013
Chip wrote:
<quoted text>The difference is that Bush never lied to us about it. I wouldn't expect you to pick up on that because things like character and integrity are things you hate.

Also, I don't really car if the government listens to my phone calls because I have nothing to hide, I do care when I am lied to about it by president Pinocchio.
I have nothing to hide but would like to have a private life. I don't need someone listening to my personal business when they choose to entertain themselves.
Mark Luxford

Grand Rapids, MI

#94 Jun 12, 2013
free thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
You're either dense as a brick or totally missing the point on purpose. The main reason provided for this massive data mining operation the government has going is that grabbing the phone records of all Americans is supposed to keep us safe from terrorists. It didn't work too well in this case. So...you want to assert that the Boston bombers never used their cell phones (which we know is not the case)? That they never said anything on those cell phones that might have been concerning? Here are two people that they actually had reason to be looking at and apparantly, they missed it altogether and it's not the first time, either. Another epic fail.
Dude, all I did was post the facts in the case. Posting facts makes me "dense as a brick"? I never asserted that the Tsarnaev brothers never used their cell phones. They were domestic terrorists, so maybe they didn't call suspected terrorists abroad.
NaziKiller

Kalamazoo, MI

#95 Jun 12, 2013
Obama wasn't kidding when he said that he wanted to "fundamentally" change this country. Some guy out here awhile back talked about separating the states between those with conservative, small government views and those who want a socialist, nanny state super mommy. I have to say that I agree fully with this. America cannot be fixed as is. We have to go our own way. It will be done no matter what. Thank you Obama. Thank you for being the person who single handily began this process.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#96 Jun 12, 2013
Rob wrote:
Your understanding of the posts on this thread is a perfect example of why your of the lowly educated pot heads.
BTW Jason, you can deny who you are all you want but the records go back at least 6 years as of now. They have your information already Jason. They even know all the gay porn sites and threads you've been frequenting. Why don't you go ahead and tell us some more of your hate filled venom and death threats along with your racist comments. Or just tell us more about your drug addictions. Lol!
I know you have a hard time understanding things. So I took a little more time to correct the little errors in my post that most people would figure out very easy just so even you could understand.
I understand things quite well. I also can understand someone making typing errors as I do from time to time.
I also understand that a rather uneducated person such as you, who apparently tried to proof read his/her comment, then repost it bragging that they had corrected the errors, is as I stated, uneducated.
Try reading your comment again...you still missed one of the most common errors folks like you make. I bet you can't even find it the third time...
Good Luck genius...hahahahaha
Rob

United States

#97 Jun 12, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>I understand things quite well. I also can understand someone making typing errors as I do from time to time.
I also understand that a rather uneducated person such as you, who apparently tried to proof read his/her comment, then repost it bragging that they had corrected the errors, is as I stated, uneducated.
Try reading your comment again...you still missed one of the most common errors folks like you make. I bet you can't even find it the third time...
Good Luck genius...hahahahaha
U r
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#98 Jun 13, 2013
Chip wrote:
<quoted text>
The difference is that Bush never lied to us about it. I wouldn't expect you to pick up on that because things like character and integrity are things you hate.
Also, I don't really car if the government listens to my phone calls because I have nothing to hide, I do care when I am lied to about it by president Pinocchio.
Right..........

Dubyah never lied to the people about anything while he was in office. That's why the troops found all those WMD's in Iraq!

Credit is due to him on one thing though. He refused to give Scooter a Get-Out-Of-Jail card when he took the fall for Darth Cheney.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#99 Jun 13, 2013
NaziKiller wrote:
Obama wasn't kidding when he said that he wanted to "fundamentally" change this country. Some guy out here awhile back talked about separating the states between those with conservative, small government views and those who want a socialist, nanny state super mommy. I have to say that I agree fully with this. America cannot be fixed as is. We have to go our own way. It will be done no matter what. Thank you Obama. Thank you for being the person who single handily began this process.
You should really talk to Mylar, or yourself as the case may be!
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Mount Morris, MI

#100 Jun 13, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Right..........
Dubyah never lied to the people about anything while he was in office. That's why the troops found all those WMD's in Iraq!
Credit is due to him on one thing though. He refused to give Scooter a Get-Out-Of-Jail card when he took the fall for Darth Cheney.
Intel around the world said the WMD's were there moron.....
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

#101 Jun 13, 2013
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Intel around the world said the WMD's were there moron.....
The left will believe the ridiculous conspiracy theory that Bush organized 9/11 and lied about WMDs in order to carry out some global Hatfield & McCoy spat with Saddam, but they can't fathom the possibility that Iraq simply moved their weapons to Syria or some other terrorist-friendly country when they got wind we were going to invade.

"No, I'm just sure it's all Bush's fault".

Yet, you have one ridiculous scandal after another under the Obama administration, and just try and find a liberal willing to see anything wrong with it.

Siwwy Wabbits ...

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#102 Jun 13, 2013
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Intel around the world said the WMD's were there moron.....
Mostly cooked intel, and mostly from Bush/Cheney.....Moron's aplenty....

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