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Nita

Grand Rapids, MI

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#1
Mar 11, 2013
 

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I've just been appalled that everytime I drive along South Division Avenue - or Martin Luther King Blvd. towards the downtown area of G.R. I see large groups of people who seemingly have nothing to do and really aren't doing anything but milling about; perhaps waiting for something - maybe a free meal - I'm just not sure as I have not spoken to any of them. No matter. If it is a meal program - I think our community could use another such God's Kitchen entity towards the other end of South Division; maybe in Burton Heights.

Then entire families might be able to benefit from the free meal program(s). And maybe even a few of the persons who've dined at the downtown location can board THE SILVER LINE and eat a second meal in the Burton Heights location. Is there any group or charitable organization working on any idea such as this. We certainly cannot state or prove that it is not needed in G.R.

Citizens have passed the bus millage on more than one occasion. Is there a surplus somewhere that this city might not take a more sincere interest in how the downtown area looks and appears - instead of everyone everytime seeing hoards of possibly hungry people milling about. If these people need help, our help, why aren't their needs being more forthrightly addressed so that they do not look like a bunch of deranged, hopeless parasites. A normal and average person would almost be afraid to park, exit their automobile or even walk on the street say in order to enter the GoodWill building. It's not a pretty site.

I suppose only a few persons like myself even give a hoot; and that' really a shame. It's all over the web how very few people or entities are caring about the poor in this nation. They, the poor, seem to be on a long and wandering, death spiral. I hope proposed budget cuts, federal and state won't adversely affect these people and the few programs that they do benefit from.

State regulations won't let me cook from my home to sell or to serve the public. One needs a stainless steel kitchen! Among other things. So I won't be able to make the donuts.
PETA

Hudsonville, MI

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#2
Mar 11, 2013
 

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On one hand your passion for the poor is Godly and admirable. On the other hand, our government entitlements have helped to develop a whole class of people whose primary interest and responsibility is cashing their government issued assistance check and lining up for their next free meal.
It's the old "give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats as long as they're biting."
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

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#3
Mar 11, 2013
 

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I agree with PETA. I might also add that you could have a God's Kitchen on every corner and you would still have the panhandlers on the street corners with signs all saying they're cold and have 3 hungry kids. They've turned it into a profitable tax-exempt business thanks to the ACLU.

Likewise, there are routine ambulance calls to Division picking up people passed out on the sidewalk drunk or high who then have to be delivered back to their homes a block away at one of the many government housing facilities where they enjoy a free apartment, courtesy of the same people that just paid for the ambulance to pick their drunk butts off the pavement.

Charity is necessary and indeed Godly, but it's not always the only answer.
Lefty

Jenison, MI

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#4
Mar 11, 2013
 

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Maybe they're waiting for their Obama maney?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#5
Mar 11, 2013
 

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Oneal wrote:
I agree with PETA. I might also add that you could have a God's Kitchen on every corner and you would still have the panhandlers on the street corners with signs all saying they're cold and have 3 hungry kids. They've turned it into a profitable tax-exempt business thanks to the ACLU.
Likewise, there are routine ambulance calls to Division picking up people passed out on the sidewalk drunk or high who then have to be delivered back to their homes a block away at one of the many government housing facilities where they enjoy a free apartment, courtesy of the same people that just paid for the ambulance to pick their drunk butts off the pavement.
Charity is necessary and indeed Godly, but it's not always the only answer.
I'm looking forward to reading your proofs that this "profitable tax-exempt business [is] thanks to the ACLU."

Yes there will always be, as there has always been, those who would rather suffer to get something for free. That's called mental illness.

But it seems that every time it even looks like the government will create jobs one can feel the ground shake from the rumbling. If the government isn't supposed to be creating jobs then where are the ones that are supposed to be creating them?
PETA

Hudsonville, MI

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#6
Mar 12, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm looking forward to reading your proofs that this "profitable tax-exempt business [is] thanks to the ACLU."
Yes there will always be, as there has always been, those who would rather suffer to get something for free. That's called mental illness.
But it seems that every time it even looks like the government will create jobs one can feel the ground shake from the rumbling. If the government isn't supposed to be creating jobs then where are the ones that are supposed to be creating them?
Going out of business because of government regulation, taxes, mandated health coverage, and generally paying for the indigent to continue existing.
As far as proof about the ACLU - I believe that GR tried to stop panhandling but the ACLU appealed that decision saying it was an infringement on civil libertys.
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

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#7
Mar 12, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm looking forward to reading your proofs that this "profitable tax-exempt business [is] thanks to the ACLU."
Yes there will always be, as there has always been, those who would rather suffer to get something for free. That's called mental illness.
But it seems that every time it even looks like the government will create jobs one can feel the ground shake from the rumbling. If the government isn't supposed to be creating jobs then where are the ones that are supposed to be creating them?
As PETA correctly informed you, Grand Rapids tried to address the excessive panhandling problem but the ACLU stepped in.
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/a...

As for profitable tax exempt business, this from Michael S. Scott, the director of the Center for Problem-Oriented Policing: Estimates vary from $20 to $50 a day to about $300 a day on the high end.

So, there ya go!
Jimbo

Grand Rapids, MI

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#8
Mar 12, 2013
 

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PETA wrote:
On one hand your passion for the poor is Godly and admirable. On the other hand, our government entitlements have helped to develop a whole class of people whose primary interest and responsibility is cashing their government issued assistance check and lining up for their next free meal.
It's the old "give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish and he eats as long as they're biting."
And what about the high percentage of homeless who are mentally incapable of catching fish? We don't have a homeless problem in this country we have a mental health problem, or the lack of caring for the mentally ill. What about all the homeless vets on our streets? Those who have served us and are now told by people like you they should learn how to fish.
PETA

Hudsonville, MI

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#9
Mar 12, 2013
 

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Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>
And what about the high percentage of homeless who are mentally incapable of catching fish? We don't have a homeless problem in this country we have a mental health problem, or the lack of caring for the mentally ill. What about all the homeless vets on our streets? Those who have served us and are now told by people like you they should learn how to fish.
I'm a Viet Nam era veteran too. When I got out of the Army I got a job. It wasn't much but I kept plugging until I improved myself and have never taken unemployment or handouts.
I'm all for voluntarily helping the "least of these" as the Bible refers to them. I just have a problem with a dead ass subculture that would rather sit on their butts and whine about those who have it better than themselves.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#10
Mar 12, 2013
 

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Okay. I had forgotten about that.

So now what do we do? The ACLU case, according to the article was, well you know, you posted it. I don't think the case as it was presented by James Speet and Ernest Sims was without merit.

Do we re-institute debtors prisons? Do we again set up "prisons" for the poor? And should we who will be paying for that? The tax payers.

Mr. Speet does collect cans, and I'm sure bottles also, and scrap metal. Is what he is trying to contribute to his own "income" invalid?

As I said before there are as there has always been and probably always will be, those that abuse the system. There are businesses and large corporations that abuse the system and I don't hear near the angst against them for making the best income they can. There are people who stand on corners waiting for the local day-labor businesses to come by and maybe pick someone out, do we arrest and jail them?

Maybe it's all in who it is and the way they go about trying to "pick our pockets"?

I believe the following article is pertinent to the argument of which class goes to prison.
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/%28X%281%29S%...

We have relegated the prison system to removing more than criminals from society. But then it depends on one's perspective on what a crime is. And to some being poor is a crime. As it has been in the past.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/georg...

"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want; the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am the friend of it's happiness: when these things can be said, then may that country boast it's constitution and government." - Thomas Paine
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#11
Mar 12, 2013
 

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PETA wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm a Viet Nam era veteran too. When I got out of the Army I got a job. It wasn't much but I kept plugging until I improved myself and have never taken unemployment or handouts.
I'm all for voluntarily helping the "least of these" as the Bible refers to them. I just have a problem with a dead ass subculture that would rather sit on their butts and whine about those who have it better than themselves.
And what about those who have the most and still whine that they should have to contribute as much of a percentage of their incomes as those who have less? And those who expect the tax payers to subsidize their profits keeping them so much better off than the "others"?
Jimbo

Grand Rapids, MI

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#12
Mar 12, 2013
 

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PETA wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm a Viet Nam era veteran too. When I got out of the Army I got a job. It wasn't much but I kept plugging until I improved myself and have never taken unemployment or handouts.
I'm all for voluntarily helping the "least of these" as the Bible refers to them. I just have a problem with a dead ass subculture that would rather sit on their butts and whine about those who have it better than themselves.
There are many soldiers who didn't just served but saw action and were unable to cope when they came home. If you took the time to understand these people before you passed judgement maybe you would feel differently. I rarely see any of these people complain about those who have it better than they do because just about everybody has it better. Unless we learn to deal with mental illness better we will only see more vets, this time from Iraq and Afghanistan, end up on the streets. Oh and quit referencing the Bible if you're going to choose not to follow it. Thank you.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Owosso, MI

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#13
Mar 12, 2013
 

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Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many soldiers who didn't just served but saw action and were unable to cope when they came home. If you took the time to understand these people before you passed judgement maybe you would feel differently. I rarely see any of these people complain about those who have it better than they do because just about everybody has it better. Unless we learn to deal with mental illness better we will only see more vets, this time from Iraq and Afghanistan, end up on the streets. Oh and quit referencing the Bible if you're going to choose not to follow it. Thank you.
Jimbo, did you get to be on the receiving end of a 7.62mm round or a RPG? Even close? How about close to a violent crime here at home?? Do you have as much skin in the game as our current and future vets, cops, and fire personnel have? Do you even pay income taxes? Don't belittle someone's beliefs if you have no experience to center your arrogance........
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#14
Mar 12, 2013
 

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Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Jimbo, did you get to be on the receiving end of a 7.62mm round or a RPG? Even close? How about close to a violent crime here at home?? Do you have as much skin in the game as our current and future vets, cops, and fire personnel have? Do you even pay income taxes? Don't belittle someone's beliefs if you have no experience to center your arrogance........
So our vets, and, which you don't want to have to pay the taxes for cops and fire fighters, ending up homeless and/or destitute has to do with someone else having or not having "skin in the game" how?

Seriously Batch, you have been having convulsions over paying the taxes that pay the wages and for the equipment "our" cops and fire fighters use. To the point of budget cutting necessity has reduced their numbers.

And our cops and fire fighters belong to unions by choice and you hate unions.

Get a sniff of something you shouldn't have again?
Jimbo

Grand Rapids, MI

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#15
Mar 12, 2013
 

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Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Jimbo, did you get to be on the receiving end of a 7.62mm round or a RPG? Even close? How about close to a violent crime here at home?? Do you have as much skin in the game as our current and future vets, cops, and fire personnel have? Do you even pay income taxes? Don't belittle someone's beliefs if you have no experience to center your arrogance........
I see men and women everyday who have served our country and are left to wander the streets. I believe people like you call them takers. You obviously never served your country in any capacity because no one who has would leave a brother behind and label them a taker.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plainwell, MI

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#16
Mar 13, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
So our vets, and, which you don't want to have to pay the taxes for cops and fire fighters, ending up homeless and/or destitute has to do with someone else having or not having "skin in the game" how?
Seriously Batch, you have been having convulsions over paying the taxes that pay the wages and for the equipment "our" cops and fire fighters use. To the point of budget cutting necessity has reduced their numbers.
And our cops and fire fighters belong to unions by choice and you hate unions.
Get a sniff of something you shouldn't have again?
You do take things to the extremist level...... I don't have a problem with taxes..... I do have a problem with wasting tax payer money..... How is that study going to find out why lesbians are fat and why homosexual men are skinny...... Our tax dollars at work for the 3%...... That 1.5 million can't be cut? That can go to vets that need the help just to begin with....... Foreign aid in the billions, take it home for the vets..... Cops and Fire is a State and local concern and closer to home..... We vote directly for those services..... So there it is you extremist.......
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plainwell, MI

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#17
Mar 13, 2013
 

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Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>
I see men and women everyday who have served our country and are left to wander the streets. I believe people like you call them takers. You obviously never served your country in any capacity because no one who has would leave a brother behind and label them a taker.
Who have you fed? As far as my experience has been, let's just say I have been saving Americans money with my past activities in cities that would scare the hell out of you all times day and night.... Vets are incapable of taking as they earn all we can give...... BTW, one of my kids armors up daily....

Have you given a down vet a job? Prepare food for them? Offer shelter? Pay for a sandwich at the airport for a member? Did not think so because progressives only like to kick them down and never give to good causes...... Obama wants to take away charity tax deductions. Remember when Clinton stabbed the Army Rangers in the eye by making the black beret they earned into standard uniform for everyone? Now the Bronze Star and Purple Heart is taking a back seat to another Bronze medal.... Stab stab stab.... No honor with this administration...... Medical device taxes to burden the aging population...... Stab stab stab..... what is wrong with you uninformed useful idiots........
Goliath

Holland, MI

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#18
Mar 13, 2013
 

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Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Who have you fed? As far as my experience has been, let's just say I have been saving Americans money with my past activities in cities that would scare the hell out of you all times day and night.... Vets are incapable of taking as they earn all we can give...... BTW, one of my kids armors up daily....
Have you given a down vet a job? Prepare food for them? Offer shelter? Pay for a sandwich at the airport for a member? Did not think so because progressives only like to kick them down and never give to good causes...... Obama wants to take away charity tax deductions. Remember when Clinton stabbed the Army Rangers in the eye by making the black beret they earned into standard uniform for everyone? Now the Bronze Star and Purple Heart is taking a back seat to another Bronze medal.... Stab stab stab.... No honor with this administration...... Medical device taxes to burden the aging population...... Stab stab stab..... what is wrong with you uninformed useful idiots........
Remember when Bush and Cheney killed 5000 US troops over a grudge they had with Saddam? Conservatives are chicken hawks who use the military to do their dirty work. Stab stab stab! FAIL!
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plainwell, MI

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#19
Mar 13, 2013
 

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Goliath wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember when Bush and Cheney killed 5000 US troops over a grudge they had with Saddam? Conservatives are chicken hawks who use the military to do their dirty work. Stab stab stab! FAIL!
Your small mind cannot possibly understand the geopolitical importance to the world our nation sacrificed this last decade...... It was just but not perfect...... War never is...... Normandy comes to mind...... Why go to Europe then? Tell us how many died in one day..... You really know nothing thus your opinion is not important.... SIB makes more sense than you and Ginger because at least he cites a part of history for his claims.....
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plainwell, MI

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#20
Mar 13, 2013
 
Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>
I see men and women everyday who have served our country and are left to wander the streets. I believe people like you call them takers. You obviously never served your country in any capacity because no one who has would leave a brother behind and label them a taker.
Here is a location I am familiar with Jimbo.... what you got? You ever lived in an neighborhood like this...... Have you helped anyone?

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