Taxing the 50% who don't pay

Posted in the Grand Rapids Forum

First Prev
of 15
Next Last
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Mount Morris, MI

#1 Dec 27, 2012
Looking at some the the tables of what is going to taxed. Looks like you people who have no "skin in the game" (VP Biden)are about to feel the bliss that we producers have dealt with for decades. Takers be prepared.... Hope the earned income tax credit gets taken out.....
Yup

Fort Myers, FL

#2 Dec 28, 2012
Them 47% non payers are in for a very rude awakening
Elephant Gun

Muskegon, MI

#3 Dec 28, 2012
What tables you looking at? The economic birth control plan B that failed. Your just whinning because you wont be able to take anymore when you get thrown off the fiscal cliff. The majority of people know its the corporations who are the takers and what do they produce? Nothing without a workforce. They do produce with their mini wage jobs an economy dependant upon the government so they can take more than they produce. I can say this without fear because I worked hard and earned everything I have and never once have I had to be a corporate tool so the non producers of the corporate world can live off taxpayers subsidies.
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

#5 Dec 28, 2012
Elephant Gun wrote:
What tables you looking at? The economic birth control plan B that failed. Your just whinning because you wont be able to take anymore when you get thrown off the fiscal cliff. The majority of people know its the corporations who are the takers and what do they produce? Nothing without a workforce. They do produce with their mini wage jobs an economy dependant upon the government so they can take more than they produce. I can say this without fear because I worked hard and earned everything I have and never once have I had to be a corporate tool so the non producers of the corporate world can live off taxpayers subsidies.
he was obviously looking at the proposed tax tables. It doesn't have pictures, so you wouldn't understand them. However, when you have less take home pay come January, I think you'll get the picture. Have a wonderful,safe New Year holiday.
Elephant Gun

Jenison, MI

#6 Dec 28, 2012
Really wrote:
<quoted text>he was obviously looking at the proposed tax tables. It doesn't have pictures, so you wouldn't understand them. However, when you have less take home pay come January, I think you'll get the picture. Have a wonderful,safe New Year holiday.
What's take home pay?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#7 Dec 29, 2012
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
Looking at some the the tables of what is going to taxed. Looks like you people who have no "skin in the game" (VP Biden)are about to feel the bliss that we producers have dealt with for decades. Takers be prepared.... Hope the earned income tax credit gets taken out.....
So lets just forget about that radical Thomas Jefferson when he said;
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682

"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1784. FE 4:15, Papers 7:557
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

#8 Dec 29, 2012
After watching the "debate" that has raged over the "fiscal cliff" and taxes, I must say, it would appear that the progressives here will take the Constitution literally when it suits their purposes and then just ad lib when they think it's necessary. Interesting thought process on the part of the progressives, not very logical, but interesting. Then we have the "wise" one who has zero clue what "take home pay" actually is and then proclaims to know all there is to know about taxes and the fiscal cliff. Great for a chuckle.
So What

Grand Rapids, MI

#9 Dec 29, 2012
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
So lets just forget about that radical Thomas Jefferson when he said;
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682
"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1784. FE 4:15, Papers 7:557
I prefer these Jefferson quotes:

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
So What

Grand Rapids, MI

#10 Dec 29, 2012
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
So lets just forget about that radical Thomas Jefferson when he said;
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682
"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1784. FE 4:15, Papers 7:557
Benjamin Franklin:

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#11 Dec 29, 2012
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
Looking at some the the tables of what is going to taxed. Looks like you people who have no "skin in the game" (VP Biden)are about to feel the bliss that we producers have dealt with for decades. Takers be prepared.... Hope the earned income tax credit gets taken out.....
Not just a teabagger rant, but straight from the horse's mouth (or ass as the case might be), proof that this country DOES HAVE a taxing problem and not just a spending problem!

Hope the capital gains tax rates get taken out too!
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

#12 Dec 29, 2012
If we go to a flat tax, consumption tax, all the "that's not fair" whining goes away. No special deductions for anyone, pay your tax as you consume. Glad to see Bob is all for that!

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#13 Dec 29, 2012
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
So lets just forget about that radical Thomas Jefferson when he said;
"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682
"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1784. FE 4:15, Papers 7:557
How about Madison's reply "debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few."

America’s founders rejected the income tax entirely, but when they spoke of taxes they recognized the need for uniformity and equal protection to all citizens.“[A]ll duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States,” reads the U.S. Constitution. And 80 years later, in the same spirit, the Fourteenth Amendment promised “equal protection of the laws” to all citizens.

In other words, the principle behind the progressive income tax—the more you earn, the larger the percentage of tax you must pay—would have been appalling to the founders. They recognized that, in James Madison’s words,“the spirit of party and faction” would prevail if Congress could tax one group of citizens and confer the benefits on another group.

In Federalist No. 10, Madison asked,“[W]hat are the different classes of legislators but advocates and parties to the causes which they determine?” He went on to say,“The apportionment of taxes on the various descriptions of property is an act which seems to require the most exact impartiality; yet there is, perhaps, no legislative act in which greater opportunity and temptation are given to a predominant party to trample on the rules of justice.”
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#14 Dec 29, 2012
Really wrote:
If we go to a flat tax, consumption tax, all the "that's not fair" whining goes away. No special deductions for anyone, pay your tax as you consume. Glad to see Bob is all for that!
ANOTHER ONE......

More and more, the right wing lunatics are starting to agree that the current tax system is skewed in favor of the 1%.

Too bad a tax based on consumption does the same thing!

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#15 Dec 29, 2012
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
ANOTHER ONE......
More and more, the right wing lunatics are starting to agree that the current tax system is skewed in favor of the 1%.
Too bad a tax based on consumption does the same thing!
You are partially correct. Anyone who believes the current tax system is skewed in favor of the 1% is a lunatic. However the one's who believe this tend to be the lunatics on the left, not the right.

By definition, any progressive tax system is skewed towards those who pay the least and against those who pay the most.
St Stephen

Grand Rapids, MI

#16 Dec 29, 2012
So What wrote:
<quoted text>
I prefer these Jefferson quotes:
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."--Thomas Jefferson

Alot of people are poor today because of the business practices of corporations and actions of the banks. Truth is he was just as much against the likes of Romney and today's corporate friendly GOP as he was a welfare state. You should find another source to make your point.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#17 Dec 29, 2012
St Stephen wrote:
<quoted text>
"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."--Thomas Jefferson
Alot of people are poor today because of the business practices of corporations and actions of the banks. Truth is he was just as much against the likes of Romney and today's corporate friendly GOP as he was a welfare state. You should find another source to make your point.
I would say that the Constitution and a basic knowledge of history makes the point that none of the Founding Fathers were in favor of a personal income tax. Taxes, yes. Personal taxes no. They never considered it in the Articles of Confederation or the Constitution. None of the early President's, who were FF's never submitted any legislation to tax individuals. Even after the Civil War, neither party advanced the idea of personal income taxes.It wasn't until the Progressive movement of the early 1900's that a personal tax was considered.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#18 Dec 29, 2012
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
I would say that the Constitution and a basic knowledge of history makes the point that none of the Founding Fathers were in favor of a personal income tax. Taxes, yes. Personal taxes no. They never considered it in the Articles of Confederation or the Constitution. None of the early President's, who were FF's never submitted any legislation to tax individuals. Even after the Civil War, neither party advanced the idea of personal income taxes.It wasn't until the Progressive movement of the early 1900's that a personal tax was considered.
On that we can absolutely agree. The FFs and both political parties believed taxing people's income needed to survive was an abomination.

Though as usual you leave out the details. "It wasn't until the Progressive movement of the early 1900's that a personal tax was considered."? First off it was Lincoln, a Republican, the first Republican President, that instituted the first Federal personal income tax to pay for the Civil War.

That aside for now. The 16th Amendment was conceived in 1909 and became law in 1913. Who was President during those years? William Howard Taft. A Republican.
http://www.moneycrashers.com/us-tax-history-f...
To which will be retorted which party was the majority in Congress during his terms. The answer, Republican. So you are saying Republicans are the Progressives?

Detailed research of the record proves it has always been the Republicans who have moved to saddle the general citizenry with Federal income taxes to defer the intended responsibility of taxes on capital gains of the richest and corporations.

Granted Lincoln really had no choice because there was the Civil War being fought needing to be paid for. Same as with WWI and WWII as wars need to be paid for. Not so much in recent history were the only wars in the U.S. history there were no provisions made to pay for them. In fact after the wars were engaged in taxes were lowered and the people told to go shopping.

So to lay it on the "progressive movement" is simply transference.
So What

Grand Rapids, MI

#19 Dec 29, 2012
St Stephen wrote:
<quoted text>
"The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."--Thomas Jefferson
Alot of people are poor today because of the business practices of corporations and actions of the banks. Truth is he was just as much against the likes of Romney and today's corporate friendly GOP as he was a welfare state. You should find another source to make your point.
You are greatly extrapolating the quote. At the time of the quote and his reference was the fact that the banks and financial institutions were extensions of the British Crown and it's that threat to the American Revolution he was talking about.
So What

Grand Rapids, MI

#20 Dec 29, 2012
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Detailed research of the record proves it has always been the Republicans who have moved to saddle the general citizenry with Federal income taxes to defer the intended responsibility of taxes on capital gains of the richest and corporations.
Not true SIB. Everyone wanted a piece of the working mans money.

"The Socialist Labor Party advocated a graduated income tax in 1887. The Populist Party "demand[ed] a graduated income tax" in its 1892 platform. The Democratic Party, led by William Jennings Bryan, advocated the income tax law passed in 1894, and proposed an income tax in its 1908 platform."
St Stephen

Grand Rapids, MI

#21 Dec 29, 2012
So What wrote:
<quoted text>
You are greatly extrapolating the quote. At the time of the quote and his reference was the fact that the banks and financial institutions were extensions of the British Crown and it's that threat to the American Revolution he was talking about.
There is no doubt that the founding fathers wanted complete seperation of corporations and the government. They did not want to see corporations labeled as individuals. It made no difference if they were connected to the Crown or not, so the substance of his quote still applies.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 15
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Grand Rapids Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Secret Service Director Julia Pierson resigns 10 hr DR X 2
College football roundup: Ohio State starts the... (Sep '13) 12 hr Go Blue Forever 1,400
What do you think of U-M's new football coach? (Jan '11) 17 hr Hugh Jass 27
What Doctors Think About Obamacare 20 hr Batch 37 Pain Is ... 2
Obama Admin. Caught Spying On Koch Bros.? 20 hr Batch 37 Pain Is ... 2
Obama attends only 41.2% of his intelligence br... Wed Rob 5
is it time to worry about the new england patri... Wed bobolinq 1
Grand Rapids Dating
Find my Match

Grand Rapids Jobs

Grand Rapids People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Grand Rapids News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Grand Rapids

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]