vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#61 Apr 10, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:

And nowhere in that video did I see her say unborn children are things.
Are you so dense as to think that because a person isn't on a specific video saying something, they have never said it?
As to the cost of raising children, I agree, it can be expensive. But that wasn't what she said. What she said is that it takes a lot of money to turn a 'thing' into a human with the implication being that children aren't human when the start out in life. If you possess the superior intellect you claim and can't see the difference between the two, I'd say your claims to intelligence are somewhat overrated.
Oh...and your Google skills are a little sub-par as well since it didn't take me more than a minute to find this:
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/03/23/msnbcs-mel...
Dr X

Byron Center, MI

#62 Apr 10, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
While you are distracted by the "Nazi socialists", the "communists" and "other assorted authoritarians" you are missing the real threat to your freedom. Freedom being the availability to produce an American lifestyle. Pay attention to who has the most to gain. Follow the money. Who will benefit the most.
If you have streaming Netflix or some other media you can watch this see We Are Not Broke.
Are you suggesting that the rich elite are exploiting the capitalist system? I don't know about you, but I think American citizens (even poor ones) have it better here than in other places around the world. Where do you stand on the earning differential between the various classes? Do you think the capitalist system is dead or dying? If so, what do you intend on replacing it with? How would changing the system help ALL classes of individual? Have you studied the various and disastrous consequences of socialism/communism? Lastly, do you believe that the wealthy are conspiring to return to serfdom? Answer the questions please.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#63 Apr 10, 2013
Dr X wrote:
<quoted text>Are you suggesting that the rich elite are exploiting the capitalist system? I don't know about you, but I think American citizens (even poor ones) have it better here than in other places around the world. Where do you stand on the earning differential between the various classes? Do you think the capitalist system is dead or dying? If so, what do you intend on replacing it with? How would changing the system help ALL classes of individual? Have you studied the various and disastrous consequences of socialism/communism? Lastly, do you believe that the wealthy are conspiring to return to serfdom? Answer the questions please.
I think the capitalist system is being manipulated and abused just as Adam Smith warned it could be to advantage those with the means to do so.

Are the wealthy conspiring to return the system to one of serfdom? No. Do they care that that is what it may return to effectively because they believe they are entitled to more than others and are picked on because they are asked to support the system in proportion to what they get from it? No.

As far as being the better than other countries? No. According to all the studies of the OECD countries in comparison to the economic strength of the United States we are doing worse than the other industrialized countries on the planet.

The earnings differential in the United States is abysmal. We have the most profound income inequality/differential of ANY country on the planet. Even considering the poorest countries.

Lastly; replace the capitalist economic system? No. Legislate out the avenues of abuse of it rather than the legislating in the abuses of it as the wealthiest influential have done over the last 30+ years.
Dr X

Byron Center, MI

#64 Apr 10, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the capitalist system is being manipulated and abused just as Adam Smith warned it could be to advantage those with the means to do so.
Are the wealthy conspiring to return the system to one of serfdom? No. Do they care that that is what it may return to effectively because they believe they are entitled to more than others and are picked on because they are asked to support the system in proportion to what they get from it? No.
As far as being the better than other countries? No. According to all the studies of the OECD countries in comparison to the economic strength of the United States we are doing worse than the other industrialized countries on the planet.
The earnings differential in the United States is abysmal. We have the most profound income inequality/differential of ANY country on the planet. Even considering the poorest countries.
Lastly; replace the capitalist economic system? No. Legislate out the avenues of abuse of it rather than the legislating in the abuses of it as the wealthiest influential have done over the last 30+ years.
Using the freedom index, I still think we are the best industrial country in which to live. That doesn't mean it isn't getting worse. It is. As for income inequality, that is to be expected due to the lack of education of many along with the conglomerate business practices since WW2. And how do you " legislate out" the avenues of abuse when those of political power in Washington (those who make the laws) will obviously refuse to do so? I don't have the golden answer unless we're willing to go someplace we haven't traveled since 1776. Know what I mean?
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#65 Apr 10, 2013
Dr X wrote:
<quoted text>Using the freedom index, I still think we are the best industrial country in which to live. That doesn't mean it isn't getting worse. It is. As for income inequality, that is to be expected due to the lack of education of many along with the conglomerate business practices since WW2. And how do you " legislate out" the avenues of abuse when those of political power in Washington (those who make the laws) will obviously refuse to do so? I don't have the golden answer unless we're willing to go someplace we haven't traveled since 1776. Know what I mean?
Hahaha. Man of the world huh? Maybe you ought to start your own radio talk show. You must feel stilted here on Topix.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#66 Apr 10, 2013
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you so dense as to think that because a person isn't on a specific video saying something, they have never said it?
As to the cost of raising children, I agree, it can be expensive. But that wasn't what she said. What she said is that it takes a lot of money to turn a 'thing' into a human with the implication being that children aren't human when the start out in life. If you possess the superior intellect you claim and can't see the difference between the two, I'd say your claims to intelligence are somewhat overrated.
Oh...and your Google skills are a little sub-par as well since it didn't take me more than a minute to find this:
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/03/23/msnbcs-mel...
Wow you really have those google skills honed to perfection don't ya? I'm impressed. My Gawd you're a piece of work.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#67 Apr 11, 2013
...Anyone see, Fracking come's to China....at the top of this page?....That has to be some good news, especially if it mean's any less here, in America......
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#68 Apr 11, 2013
Dr X wrote:
<quoted text>Using the freedom index, I still think we are the best industrial country in which to live. That doesn't mean it isn't getting worse. It is. As for income inequality, that is to be expected due to the lack of education of many along with the conglomerate business practices since WW2. And how do you " legislate out" the avenues of abuse when those of political power in Washington (those who make the laws) will obviously refuse to do so? I don't have the golden answer unless we're willing to go someplace we haven't traveled since 1776. Know what I mean?
Legislating out the abuses is not insurmountable. It takes the right-wing minions to realize they are being screwed by the very people they wish to be like and support because they see excessive wealth as a lofty goal. By letting their legislators know the tax payers subsidizing the wealthiest incomes and profits is unacceptable.

Watch the documentary I suggested. This whole idea that another revolution is the only avenue is ludicrous. History is replete with examples and ruins of civilizations that have been destroyed only to repeat what was defeated. Kill the cancer not the patient. We are the best example of how that can be done as there has ever been.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#69 Apr 11, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the capitalist system is being manipulated and abused just as Adam Smith warned it could be to advantage those with the means to do so.
Are the wealthy conspiring to return the system to one of serfdom? No. Do they care that that is what it may return to effectively because they believe they are entitled to more than others and are picked on because they are asked to support the system in proportion to what they get from it? No.
As far as being the better than other countries? No. According to all the studies of the OECD countries in comparison to the economic strength of the United States we are doing worse than the other industrialized countries on the planet.
The earnings differential in the United States is abysmal. We have the most profound income inequality/differential of ANY country on the planet. Even considering the poorest countries.
Lastly; replace the capitalist economic system? No. Legislate out the avenues of abuse of it rather than the legislating in the abuses of it as the wealthiest influential have done over the last 30+ years.
I should have said inequity rather than inequality.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#70 Apr 11, 2013
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you so dense as to think that because a person isn't on a specific video saying something, they have never said it?
As to the cost of raising children, I agree, it can be expensive. But that wasn't what she said. What she said is that it takes a lot of money to turn a 'thing' into a human with the implication being that children aren't human when the start out in life. If you possess the superior intellect you claim and can't see the difference between the two, I'd say your claims to intelligence are somewhat overrated.
Oh...and your Google skills are a little sub-par as well since it didn't take me more than a minute to find this:
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/03/23/msnbcs-mel...
Then as long as you have the freedom to interpret then I do also; Second Amendment radicals don't care how many children and/or innocents are killed just so long as their "freedom" is not infringed. That it is better to have targets available than to not have them born at all.

That it is better to make the forced born to suffer from hunger, abuse, neglect, sub-standard quality of life than to not be born at all.

You would rather fight to have those born and possibly suffer than to fight so that those born suffer less in the life they are born into.
Dr X

Byron Center, MI

#71 Apr 11, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Legislating out the abuses is not insurmountable. It takes the right-wing minions to realize they are being screwed by the very people they wish to be like and support because they see excessive wealth as a lofty goal. By letting their legislators know the tax payers subsidizing the wealthiest incomes and profits is unacceptable.
Watch the documentary I suggested. This whole idea that another revolution is the only avenue is ludicrous. History is replete with examples and ruins of civilizations that have been destroyed only to repeat what was defeated. Kill the cancer not the patient. We are the best example of how that can be done as there has ever been.
Don't just level the blame on the "right-wing minions" as you call them. Look at Bloomberg. He's got money coming out of his ears and is a committed leftist Nazi. Then you have George Soros who has even more money and actually worked with the Nazi Party to round up Jews....his own people! There is nothing wrong with conservative thinking when it comes to financial gain unless you knowingly break the law or exploit others for profit. I'm against both practices. The answer here is that people need to forget about party affiliations and start busting the heads of those who see us as tools. This means that I'm against outsourcing and big banks as well as being against the socialist collectivism endorsed by many on the left. Education is the key here though. The more people learn, the more they'll wake up to what's taking place. In the end, everyone will become libertarian and watch as the two=party system destroys itself. Maybe.
Dr X

Byron Center, MI

#72 Apr 11, 2013
One final note SIB,

In your post you suggest killing the cancer and not the patient. Well, I believe the cancer could be called "human greed" with the patient being the USA. Question is, how could you ever change thousands of years of human psychological nature? There have always been and will always be people who want more than others. Controlling this so-called problem is the main goal of communism. Just thought I'd let you know.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#73 Apr 11, 2013
Bloomberg, a Jewish NY Mayor, is also a Leftist Nazi.......how's that for a firm grasp on reality? Sorry, a commited leftist nazi....want to get it right...lol...
Dr X

Byron Center, MI

#74 Apr 11, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
Bloomberg, a Jewish NY Mayor, is also a Leftist Nazi.......how's that for a firm grasp on reality? Sorry, a commited leftist nazi....want to get it right...lol...
Look at what he tries to impose on New Yorkers. Looks like a Nazi socialist to me, although he calls himself an independent. I won't even touch on his Mayors Against Illegal Guns organization. Nazi to the last and I'm standing by that statement regardless of his heritage.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#75 Apr 11, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
Second Amendment radicals don't care how many children and/or innocents are killed just so long as their "freedom" is not infringed.
Change 'second amendment radicals' to 'reproductive freedom radicals' and you have it right.
Funny how all those in favor of abortion are already born.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#76 Apr 11, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
Bloomberg, a Jewish NY Mayor, is also a Leftist Nazi.......how's that for a firm grasp on reality?
Does the name George Soros ring a bell? Why do you find it so inconceivable that a Jew could be a leftist Nazi? There were more than a few Nazi collaborators among the Jews. Lowlifes who sent their own people to the gas chambers to be slaughtered.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#77 Apr 11, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
Then as long as you have the freedom to interpret then I do also; Second Amendment radicals don't care how many children and/or innocents are killed just so long as their "freedom" is not infringed. That it is better to have targets available than to not have them born at all.
That it is better to make the forced born to suffer from hunger, abuse, neglect, sub-standard quality of life than to not be born at all.
You would rather fight to have those born and possibly suffer than to fight so that those born suffer less in the life they are born into.
You said you couldn't find where she referred to a child as a 'thing' that 'takes a lot of money to turn into a human'. It took me less than a minute to locate it. You can twist and squirm all you like but it doesn't change the fact that she (and you agree with her) devalues life to the point of calling an unborn a child a thing...unhuman...worthless and disposable. There is nothing altruistic in her sentiments...the prevention of suffering...unborn children to her are leeches, parasites and cancers that should be removed.
You seem to believe that the only life worth living is one in which the individual is perfect, whole, healthy and never suffers. Are you saying that it would have been better for the Sandy Hook children to have been aborted than to live the brief lives they lived, loving and being loved by those around them? Really?
Sounds to me like you're the one living in a fantasy land and it'a a rather grim land indeed. Based on your criteria, the majority of the human race should have been aborted.
As for Melissa Harris, she isn't the first to espouse the idea that it's more the responsibility of the state to raise children than their parents. Here's a quote from the past that should sound eerily familiar:

“Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state. The state will take youth and give to youth its own education and its own upbringing. Your child belongs to us already… what are you?”

These are the words of Adolf Hitler.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#78 Apr 12, 2013
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
You said you couldn't find where she referred to a child as a 'thing' that 'takes a lot of money to turn into a human'. It took me less than a minute to locate it. You can twist and squirm all you like but it doesn't change the fact that she (and you agree with her) devalues life to the point of calling an unborn a child a thing...unhuman...worthless and disposable. There is nothing altruistic in her sentiments...the prevention of suffering...unborn children to her are leeches, parasites and cancers that should be removed.
You seem to believe that the only life worth living is one in which the individual is perfect, whole, healthy and never suffers. Are you saying that it would have been better for the Sandy Hook children to have been aborted than to live the brief lives they lived, loving and being loved by those around them? Really?
Sounds to me like you're the one living in a fantasy land and it'a a rather grim land indeed. Based on your criteria, the majority of the human race should have been aborted.
As for Melissa Harris, she isn't the first to espouse the idea that it's more the responsibility of the state to raise children than their parents. Here's a quote from the past that should sound eerily familiar:
“Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state. The state will take youth and give to youth its own education and its own upbringing. Your child belongs to us already… what are you?”
These are the words of Adolf Hitler.
If you want to define the microscopic clump of cells that are the fertilized egg a person at that stage is fine with me. I don't have any desire to get into the hot bed that is abortion. As I said before that is the fall back argument of every conservative no matter what the topic.
What I did see and hear on the video you posted, oh and by the way I'm sooooo sorry I missed that one oh genius one, was Ms. Harris-Perry referring to how as a society we have done little to invest in the quality of life for that "thing" once it does come to term and is "officially" a human being. You know, that "person" you push so hard for to be born but once they are it's everyone for themselves?!
In both videos that's the point EVERY ONE of you conservative wonks missed. You have this unceasing demand that the state require that every human conception be born but don't want to have anything to do with the requirement that those children have a shot at quality of life. That once those children are forced to be born they takes takes chances at life. And if you need to take that as I believe every child should be aborted rather than have the chance of a good life that's your screwed up mentality. When you demand something from another you have committed yourself to the proper assistance to accomplish that demand. But then that's the other aspect of the morality escaping you. Instead you focus on a couple of words and miss the entire context.
You want the state to force your morality upon others but hell no to the state forcing others morality on you. Like responsible "gun control" so that radicals are less likely to take the lives of those innocents. Isn't it interesting that those parents that lost their children want responsible gun control while you don't when you didn't lose any of your children.
I will repeat; I am not a proponent of abortion.
And what this has to do with text books escapes me. But Hitler did massacre millions that were already born.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Mount Morris, MI

#79 Apr 12, 2013
pipedream wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow you really have those google skills honed to perfection don't ya? I'm impressed. My Gawd you're a piece of work.
Is there not a Union job out there for you.......
free thinker

Farmington, MI

#81 Apr 12, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
You have this unceasing demand that the state require that every human conception be born but don't want to have anything to do with the requirement that those children have a shot at quality of life.
Post some proof, miss 'wonk', that the majority of people who are pro-life don't want children to have a decent life when they're born. You keep repeating that like it's a fact but have yet to post any credible evidence to back that up. In my experience, many who are pro-life give of their time, resources and money to see to it that these children who are born receive assistance when it's necessary and there is a waiting list for babies...thousands of couples WANT them and would be able to provide them a good life.
Nice to see you bought Margaret Sanger's 'quality of life' crap hook, line and sinker. She was a eugenicist, pure and simple, and all you lemmings line up to support it having absolutely no idea what's actually behind it all. Ask yourself this: Why are the majority of abortion clinics located in poor neighborhoods and why are minorities encouraged disproportionately to abort their children? I'll give you a hint: it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'reproductive freedom' or 'quality of life'.

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