Still no deal, GR teachers' union considers job action

Full story: WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan

As teachers in Grand Rapids Public Schools start another school year without a contract, their leader told the school board Tuesday night he wants to deal directly with board members, sidestepping ...
Comments
341 - 360 of 479 Comments Last updated Sep 23, 2008

“Information doesn't kill you.”

Since: Apr 08

Grand Blanc, MI

#341 Sep 9, 2008
The issue is, GRPS doesn't appear to report their whole financial status with regards to bargaining, they just say that they are offering us roughly $4 million and saying that we want roughly $8 million.

Here is a little more information...
http://mdoe.state.mi.us/statusreports/statusr...

Grand Rapids is on page 5.

I am unable to find any financial reports on their 'new and improved' website. http://www.grps.k12.mi.us/grps1/

They used to have the past several years worth available.

“but listen to this...”

Since: Sep 08

Wyoming, MI

#342 Sep 9, 2008
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Day,
No disrespect intended, but the shortfall exists either way, giving a raise or not, using your example.
Should the suburbs give more money to GRPS (prop A)and then educate the students that are leaving GRPS too? I guess I don't get where you are going with this, other than to say doos logic falls short.
By default if, all the students are leaving, doesn't that give GRPS the ability to cut back on teachers and their benefits, and carry less property?
Heck no! I don't want to pay more taxes! Mine are already to high in the 'burbs. I'm sick of carrying the water for DobbyDo. I'm suggesting that something needs to be done to generate cash other than foundation grants for the GRPS to pay its expenses (not just salaries & benefits) like partnerships or something innovative. Heck, rent out the buildings, partner with the Rapid for bussing, find a food service partner - do something, but you're not going to get there with pay cuts. I was making a point with the math. I, along with everyone else, don't have the real numbers.

Since: Sep 08

Ann Arbor, MI

#343 Sep 9, 2008
GR Teacher wrote:
<quoted text>You do realize that Taylor began his tenure as superintendent BEFORE Helder began his tenure as GREA president, don't you?
Who cares, the guy is a fool extraordinaire.

Since: Sep 08

Ann Arbor, MI

#344 Sep 9, 2008
GR Teacher wrote:
The issue is, GRPS doesn't appear to report their whole financial status with regards to bargaining, they just say that they are offering us roughly $4 million and saying that we want roughly $8 million.
Here is a little more information...
http://mdoe.state.mi.us/statusreports/statusr...
Grand Rapids is on page 5.
I am unable to find any financial reports on their 'new and improved' website. http://www.grps.k12.mi.us/grps1/
They used to have the past several years worth available.
And for all his comments Jabba the Hut has STILL not turned over his numbers....

Since: Sep 08

Ann Arbor, MI

#345 Sep 9, 2008
on a tangent wrote:
<quoted text>
Heck no! I don't want to pay more taxes! Mine are already to high in the 'burbs. I'm sick of carrying the water for DobbyDo. I'm suggesting that something needs to be done to generate cash other than foundation grants for the GRPS to pay its expenses (not just salaries & benefits) like partnerships or something innovative. Heck, rent out the buildings, partner with the Rapid for bussing, find a food service partner - do something, but you're not going to get there with pay cuts. I was making a point with the math. I, along with everyone else, don't have the real numbers.
Dumb ideas all. The only way you raise real cash is to get the job done, build the confidence of parents so more students can come back.
sammy

West Bloomfield, MI

#346 Sep 9, 2008
DobbyDo wrote:
<quoted text>
Who cares, the guy is a fool extraordinaire.
Please do not talk about Dr. Taylor that way. He was run out of KC and Pittsburgh that way.

Since: Sep 08

Ann Arbor, MI

#347 Sep 9, 2008
sammy wrote:
<quoted text>
Please do not talk about Dr. Taylor that way. He was run out of KC and Pittsburgh that way.
Blah, blah, blah everyone get your shovel the horse is dropping it again.

Since: Nov 07

Detroit, MI

#348 Sep 9, 2008
Three States have lowered their requirements to pass the test for the No Child left behind program to get the federal dollars. Wisconsin, Colorado & Michigan have the lowest requirements to pass those tests. So they dunb it down rather than try to improve the scores? And then WANT MORE MONEY ? No WAY. Lets see some results first, Money later.

Since: Nov 07

Detroit, MI

#349 Sep 9, 2008
sammy wrote:
<quoted text>
Please do not talk about Dr. Taylor that way. He was run out of KC and Pittsburgh that way.
Dr. Taylor and the Board are doing what they are supose to do. Stay within the BUDGET and get as much money as possible to the actual Children. GOOD JOB Dr. Taylor and Board members. Stand Your Ground. We are behind you 100%.

“Information doesn't kill you.”

Since: Apr 08

Grand Blanc, MI

#350 Sep 9, 2008
DobbyDo wrote:
<quoted text>
And for all his comments Jabba the Hut has STILL not turned over his numbers....
Several times I have accused you of not presenting an original thought or fact, merely repeating (incessantly, I might add) what you have read in the Press or seen on Wood. Further proof... someone calls Helder "Jabba the Hut" and you have repeated it roughly a half dozen times. Say what you will, others may have similar ideas as you, but I don't think ANYONE actually agrees with you. Merely an observation.

“Information doesn't kill you.”

Since: Apr 08

Grand Blanc, MI

#351 Sep 9, 2008
Mad Taxpayer wrote:
Three States have lowered their requirements to pass the test for the No Child left behind program to get the federal dollars. Wisconsin, Colorado & Michigan have the lowest requirements to pass those tests. So they dunb it down rather than try to improve the scores? And then WANT MORE MONEY ? No WAY. Lets see some results first, Money later.
Just wondering where you got your information? I am not questioning it, but realize that happens at the state level.

At risk of being labeled as grammar police, I find it ironic (apropos) that you mistyped the word "dumb."

“Come, heed the wisdom”

Since: Sep 07

Grand Rapids, MI

#352 Sep 9, 2008
GR Teacher wrote:
<quoted text>Several times I have accused you of not presenting an original thought or fact, merely repeating (incessantly, I might add) what you have read in the Press or seen on Wood. Further proof... someone calls Helder "Jabba the Hut" and you have repeated it roughly a half dozen times. Say what you will, others may have similar ideas as you, but I don't think ANYONE actually agrees with you. Merely an observation.
Yes, I'm thoroughly sorry for having ever said it. It was sort of a joke but now it's out of hand. Jokes get unfunny pretty quick...

My view is that the teachers need to be able to accept the reality that maybe they can't get what they want. Conversely, the administration needs to be able to put a sane and fair plan in place. I really don't know enough about the situation to say whether either is happening. It doesn't seem (from the outside looking in) like either is happening though. Obviously I'm no fan of Helder. I suppose it was juvenile to call him what I did even in jest. But I really don't think too highly of him. Dr. Taylor... well, I'll always appreciate someone who busts the balls of a union. However, I just don't see him coming forward with much of anything constructive either. This whole situation is getting really sad... I just hope that some understanding can be reached soon.
whiner

United States

#353 Sep 9, 2008
Mad Taxpayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Dr. Taylor and the Board are doing what they are supose to do. Stay within the BUDGET and get as much money as possible to the actual Children. GOOD JOB Dr. Taylor and Board members. Stand Your Ground. We are behind you 100%.
Maybe they can explain how the 100,000 they put into the public relation job of Helmholdt is getting the money to the children??

“Information doesn't kill you.”

Since: Apr 08

Grand Blanc, MI

#354 Sep 9, 2008
Collin K wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I'm thoroughly sorry for having ever said it. It was sort of a joke but now it's out of hand. Jokes get unfunny pretty quick...
My view is that the teachers need to be able to accept the reality that maybe they can't get what they want. Conversely, the administration needs to be able to put a sane and fair plan in place. I really don't know enough about the situation to say whether either is happening. It doesn't seem (from the outside looking in) like either is happening though. Obviously I'm no fan of Helder. I suppose it was juvenile to call him what I did even in jest. But I really don't think too highly of him. Dr. Taylor... well, I'll always appreciate someone who busts the balls of a union. However, I just don't see him coming forward with much of anything constructive either. This whole situation is getting really sad... I just hope that some understanding can be reached soon.
No apology necessary, I understand the reference and actually could see the humor in it. Guys like Dobby just have to latch onto thoughts that aren't their own. I do not agree with everything that Helder does (maybe half) but I agree even less with Taylor, not because he is attacking the union but because he treats teachers and administrators like crap and tries to make himself appear like he puts the kids first. If you go back and read the articles out of the KC papers a couple of years ago, the same things were being said of him by people in the district, and that was in a right to work state. Hopefully our board will see the light and send him packing as they did in KC.
sammy

West Bloomfield, MI

#355 Sep 9, 2008
whiner wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe they can explain how the 100,000 they put into the public relation job of Helmholdt is getting the money to the children??
or athletic directors at every school and another person as athletic director at central office, even though there is no City League any more. Oh, and lets not forget we have Mel Atkins Sr. being paid to consult. A bit much, wouldn't you say?
Taxpayer

AOL

#356 Sep 9, 2008
We have money for the Lansing lawmakers, who will probably raise taxes again in 2009, Right Mr. Sak?
So, we must have money for the schools. Lansing lawmakers took NO CUTS,yet raised my taxes. Cut the fatcats like Sak, Gonzales, Coulouris and the rest and the school districts will have money for the teachers.
What about that 595 million Granholm wants to give Kwame to fix up Detroit's Cobo? Let's use that.

Since: Nov 07

Detroit, MI

#357 Sep 9, 2008
GR Teacher wrote:
<quoted text>Just wondering where you got your information? I am not questioning it, but realize that happens at the state level.
At risk of being labeled as grammar police, I find it ironic (apropos) that you mistyped the word "dumb."
It was on NBC News tonight with Brian Williams.
So What

Grand Rapids, MI

#358 Sep 9, 2008
Just wondering something. After all the back and forth here in the forum, what's actually the status of the talks?

Since: Sep 08

Ann Arbor, MI

#359 Sep 9, 2008
GR Teacher wrote:
<quoted text>Several times I have accused you of not presenting an original thought or fact, merely repeating (incessantly, I might add) what you have read in the Press or seen on Wood. Further proof... someone calls Helder "Jabba the Hut" and you have repeated it roughly a half dozen times. Say what you will, others may have similar ideas as you, but I don't think ANYONE actually agrees with you. Merely an observation.
Please, I would not be the least bit surprised if you clearing everything with Paul Helder before you write it.

Jabba the Hut fits the guy, it is funny. I can think of other more descriptive terms, but I am not sure they belong here.

Since: Sep 08

Ann Arbor, MI

#360 Sep 9, 2008
GR Teacher wrote:
<quoted text>No apology necessary, I understand the reference and actually could see the humor in it. Guys like Dobby just have to latch onto thoughts that aren't their own. I do not agree with everything that Helder does (maybe half) but I agree even less with Taylor, not because he is attacking the union but because he treats teachers and administrators like crap and tries to make himself appear like he puts the kids first. If you go back and read the articles out of the KC papers a couple of years ago, the same things were being said of him by people in the district, and that was in a right to work state. Hopefully our board will see the light and send him packing as they did in KC.
Here is the thing that mystifies me about you. Taylor comes into a failing District after the beloved angelic Bleke made virtually no progress. Did you expect the man to get down on all fours and get his nose brown with the situation? When he does not schmooze and hug like Bert did you get all out of sorts?

This is not a few people failing, this is all but one of your secondary schools failing. Every day students go to school and as a District you are miserably failing each and every one of them. Someone needs to come in there and say enough is enough.

Being all cuddly with you folks has not worked and No Child Left Behind is going to cause you folks all kinds of grief. One would think you would take some of Taylor's medicine instead of waiting for NCLB and Schools of Choice to rip GRPS down even more.

Wake up, the old game is dead.

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