Really

United States

#61 Dec 16, 2012
Ginger wrote:
<quoted text>
It could be argued that we are rapidly becoming a society governed by guns.
What good are laws anymore?
Everybody breaks them in some form or another.
I don't disagree with that thought. However, if we don't have laws, what do you think the country will truly look like? I have a pretty good imagination, some would say too good at times, and the picture I imagine is totally horrifying.
GingersSnapper

Lansing, MI

#62 Dec 16, 2012
Ginger wrote:
<quoted text>
It could be argued that we are rapidly becoming a society governed by guns.
What good are laws anymore?
Everybody breaks them in some form or another.
Just because YOU break the laws all the time by smoking pot, and prostituting yourself, doesnt mean that everyone else does.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#63 Dec 16, 2012
Ginger wrote:
What good are laws anymore?
Everybody breaks them in some form or another.
If you are under the misunderstanding that laws prevent crime, I could understand that question.
The thing is, the purpose of laws isn't to prevent crime or even to teach anyone what behaviors are wrong (most people who were raised right have a pretty good handle on that). The purpose of laws are to prescribe the penalty for committing the crime.
The general purpose of police isn't to prevent crime or even really to defend you against crime (most of the time) since the crime is usually committed long before they even get involved. Their purpose is to find those that commit crimes and remove them from the general population.
If you want to prevent a crime from happening TO YOU, the only way to do that is to take measures to defend yourself, your property and those you love whether it be to learn self-defense, purchase a weapon or both. To wait for someone else to do it for you is folly.

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#64 Dec 16, 2012
Ginger wrote:
<quoted text>
It could be argued that we are rapidly becoming a society governed by guns.
What good are laws anymore?
Everybody breaks them in some form or another.
Nope your wrong we a rapidly becoming a country of criminals because of the fact that there are so many laws no one knows what they are

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
Ayn Rand
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/cr...

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#65 Dec 16, 2012
neecer wrote:
<quoted text>
so because of a few idiots, we should all give up guns so only the criminals have them? Ask Australia and the UK how well that's worked since they've banned them. Deaths may have gone down, but violent crimes are up.
Oh, and our shoes are checked and we get to put them back on. We're not forced to give up our shoes.
Is that truly what you got...outta my post?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#66 Dec 16, 2012
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Shoes? You should know that the whackos on the right will tell you that shoes aren't mentioned in the constitution!
But you are right.... Nothing is going to get done as far as gun control goes. Nor will the government provide for the care of the mentally disturbed people behind so many of these shootings.
I guess they're just supposed to get help at the nearest emergency room!
Talking about the mentally disturbed, did you see about the guy slashing and stabbing the school kids, in China?....China has no safety net for the criminally insane at all, except a bullit in the head....China's a powderkeg....

“Lost my mind”

Since: Apr 07

be back later

#67 Dec 16, 2012
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Is that truly what you got...outta my post?
IF you wanted something else to be taken from your posts, I suggest you say what you mean, not what you think you might have said.
Sassy

Grand Rapids, MI

#68 Dec 16, 2012
Okay enough already. Banning gun's is not the problem. Mental Health care IS the issue. If you look at all these major shootings you will see that each individual had a mental health issue. It needs to be recognized and dealt with. Does anyone here realize how stigmitized mental health is. In the State of Michigan, should you ever be committed to a mental health hospital, be it depression, bipolar, etc you will not be allowed to own a gun by law. However, there are ways to get around that on the black market.

My point is that if Mental Health were not so stigmitized people would be more willing to get help. Do you stop treating a patient because they have cancer? No you don't. Just as you shouldn't stop treating a patient with a mental illness. Sure there are abuses of using mental health but there are many more that need the care and are unable to get it.

This, of course is MO.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#69 Dec 16, 2012
St Stephen wrote:
<quoted text>
An armed society is a polite society? More NRA regurgiated babble. An armed society is a dangerous one, one where people get murdered. Stats don't lie moron.
• A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.
• A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire an
d apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.
• A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.
• A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.
• A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.
• A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.
• A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.
• At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon.
http://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/halt-th...

Average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police: 14.29
Average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by armed civilians: 2.33
http://dailyanarchist.com/2012/07/31/auditing...

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

#70 Dec 16, 2012
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Is that truly what you got...outta my post?
Do you mean this post?

http://www.topix.com/issue/romney-ryan/grand-...
EyeOnYou

Rochester, MI

#71 Dec 16, 2012
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
So now all we need is conservative family values FUNDING or LEGISLATION?
Funding? Legislation?
There goes the constitution up in flames!
Don't you believe that an aggressive approach to conservative family values would at least help curb some of these shooting atrocities? If not, why not?
EyeOnYou

Rochester, MI

#72 Dec 16, 2012
Bob wrote:
WWJCC - What Would Jebus Carry Concealed?
Jesus chooses Glock with special designer ammunition that kills just Romans and family members of King Herod.

“Lost my mind”

Since: Apr 07

be back later

#73 Dec 17, 2012
Sassy wrote:
Okay enough already. Banning gun's is not the problem. Mental Health care IS the issue. If you look at all these major shootings you will see that each individual had a mental health issue. It needs to be recognized and dealt with. Does anyone here realize how stigmitized mental health is. In the State of Michigan, should you ever be committed to a mental health hospital, be it depression, bipolar, etc you will not be allowed to own a gun by law. However, there are ways to get around that on the black market.
My point is that if Mental Health were not so stigmitized people would be more willing to get help. Do you stop treating a patient because they have cancer? No you don't. Just as you shouldn't stop treating a patient with a mental illness. Sure there are abuses of using mental health but there are many more that need the care and are unable to get it.
This, of course is MO.
Mental health has been stigmatized for a very long time here in Michigan and at the federal level.

the problem is, a lot of insurance either put a limit on the amount of mental health spending per policy per year, or they put a very large out of pocket on to the policies - which is separated out from the medical benefits. For example, our policy has a 50% copay for behavioral health, whether or not we have met our deductible. And the new Autism coverage law passed in Michigan? The Blues have attached that to their behavior health, and only if you go to who they deem to be "certified".
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#74 Dec 17, 2012
neecer wrote:
Mental health has been stigmatized for a very long time here in Michigan and at the federal level.
the problem is, a lot of insurance either put a limit on the amount of mental health spending per policy per year, or they put a very large out of pocket on to the policies - which is separated out from the medical benefits.
Not any more. The HIPAA act states that mental health benefits cannot be different than medical benefits so insurers can't put annual dollar limits on mental health care that are greater than any other medical benefit on the contract, nor can they require a higher deductible. Many policies now carry the same copay for mental health as they do for office visits.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#75 Dec 17, 2012
Gville Jim wrote:
<quoted text>Do you mean this post?
http://www.topix.com/issue/romney-ryan/grand-...
Alway's late, and with very little.....
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#76 Dec 17, 2012
EyeOnYou wrote:
<quoted text>Don't you believe that an aggressive approach to conservative family values would at least help curb some of these shooting atrocities? If not, why not?
Seeing as how you won't list what conservative family values you want the government to either fund or legislate on all of us, I'll reserve comment until you do.

For now, I'll give you some food for thought......

Like the fact that this shooter was so anti-social that his mother decided to home school him? Isn't home schooling one of the favorite technigues of the conservative crowd?

How about the endless love of a mother who saw nothing wrong with buying all whole bunch of guns and teaching this social misfit how to use them? The fact that he decided to make her his first victim is a great example of Karma!

It's been reported that this shooter suffered from either autism or perhaps aspergers. Wouldn't those good family values have meant that the mother should have tried to find help for this kid, aside from marksmenship practice?

But please, don't let that stop you from listing all of the restrictions you'd like to see on the first amendment in order to save the second one!
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#77 Dec 17, 2012
EyeOnYou wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus chooses Glock with special designer ammunition that kills just Romans and family members of King Herod.
Wasn't your savior more a turn the other cheek kinda guy rather than one that would target specific groups of people?

Must be one of those conservative family values things, as I've heard the same sort of think about killing Muslims, etc., etc., from some of you Christians!
to be announced

Grand Rapids, MI

#78 Dec 17, 2012
there are 300,000,000 million guns in the US.

Take guns out of the hands, of those who will legaly give them up and only criminals will have guns.

911 they used box cutters and planes. Hitler used poison gas.

Maybe they should make Meth and heroin illegal.....oh what?

Ban evil, and the mentally ill.

The only reason politicans go after guns, is because their is no gain for either side on mental heath issues.

The fact is in every single shooting/ bombing case, the person or persons, have been known to have mental problems. How do you legislate that?

The root problem is, mental illness and evil.

Drive a car thru a playground, how many children will be killed?

This is a sad tragedy, but we cannot be so reactionary that we blame it on the wrong thing.

“THINK before you speak”

Since: Apr 08

mayberry usa

#79 Dec 17, 2012
Fitz wrote:
Ban hand guns. All of them. You can protect your home with a rifle or shot gun, hunt too. Hand guns are for killing people. Stiffer sentences for felons who posess guns.
Handguns are necessary if you need to carry away from home. It would take a pretty big purse to conceal a rifle.
EyeOnYou

Rochester, MI

#80 Dec 17, 2012
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Seeing as how you won't list what conservative family values you want the government to either fund or legislate on all of us, I'll reserve comment until you do.
For now, I'll give you some food for thought......
Like the fact that this shooter was so anti-social that his mother decided to home school him? Isn't home schooling one of the favorite technigues of the conservative crowd?
How about the endless love of a mother who saw nothing wrong with buying all whole bunch of guns and teaching this social misfit how to use them? The fact that he decided to make her his first victim is a great example of Karma!
It's been reported that this shooter suffered from either autism or perhaps aspergers. Wouldn't those good family values have meant that the mother should have tried to find help for this kid, aside from marksmenship practice?
But please, don't let that stop you from listing all of the restrictions you'd like to see on the first amendment in order to save the second one!
I'm not saying that we should make family values law, but I am saying that there has to be something done on the national level to address broken families and violence in movies and video games. I understand the 1st Amendment rights on the issue, but we can collectively talk about how to reverse decades of liberal influence over our youth. Yes, I said "liberal" influence. By the way, how do you know the mother was teaching this kid how to shoot? And please don't attack home schooling. This kid was mentally unfit for the normal classroom and home schooling was probably her only option. Home schooling has nothing to do with conservatism. Also, I'm not suggesting in any way that we borrow from the 1st Amendment to save the 2nd. Both must be saved because the 1st is only guaranteed by the 2nd. If you don't understand this then I pity you.

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