Snyder wants to raise taxes and fees in Michigan

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Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Owosso, MI

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#173
Feb 22, 2013
 

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pipedream wrote:
So your only solution seems to be do nothing, maintain the status quo and let the insurance and pharmaceutical companies continue, as they have,to rape, steal and rob the current system all the way to the bank and let health care costs continue to sky rocket to the point that health care costs alone bankrupt not only the government but people who get sick and don't have coverage.
Your conspiracy theories are over the top and are what is blocking you from thinking properly.
You mean like half the Country that pays no income tax...... How about the illegal aliens who use the health care system to drive costs up???? You are for that kind of destruction....
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

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#175
Feb 22, 2013
 

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pipedream wrote:
So your only solution seems to be do nothing, maintain the status quo and let the insurance and pharmaceutical companies continue, as they have,to rape, steal and rob the current system all the way to the bank and let health care costs continue to sky rocket to the point that health care costs alone bankrupt not only the government but people who get sick and don't have coverage.
Your conspiracy theories are over the top and are what is blocking you from thinking properly.
So are you looking for a serious conversation or are you just looking to fling insults? I have no conspiracy theories and I'm obviously thinking clearly. Just because it doesn't fit with your mentality doesn't mean I'm crazy or need to move away, preferably far away.

When you get serious and grow up I'll be glad to discuss this issue.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

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#176
Feb 22, 2013
 

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you been reading and listening to too much right wing gossip and nonsense Really.
You're too dense to see light. I'll just leave it at that because you've shown time and time again you're incapable of critical thinking of any kind or even common sense for that matter. You're not going to ever convince me any different. I guess you'll just have accept the Affordable Health care because unless you have good employer sponsored health insurance you're going to have Obama's. There's no conspiracy in this Really. Its Reality, its the law of the land and you're just going to have to accept it. We'll see you in 10 years or so. In the meantime, if you don't like it and need health care. You can refuse to go to the Dr. or to a hospital. Tough Shitt.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

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#177
Feb 22, 2013
 

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and you can just get sick and die. Let someone else get the treatment and care they need. No loss if you're gone. Someone else will gladly take what's offered.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

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#178
Feb 22, 2013
 

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Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>You mean like half the Country that pays no income tax...... How about the illegal aliens who use the health care system to drive costs up???? You are for that kind of destruction....
That internet hot sauce business becoming too unweildly for you big guy with all those quarterly income filings and taxes you have to pay? All those right wing conspiracies getting to you?
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Owosso, MI

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#180
Feb 23, 2013
 

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pipedream wrote:
<quoted text>
That internet hot sauce business becoming too unweildly for you big guy with all those quarterly income filings and taxes you have to pay? All those right wing conspiracies getting to you?
Nope dope head.. All you do is use Alinsky's Rules for Radicals to answer all your critics...... You got no facts to support your theories...... Name one Country that has a Constitution like ours that has successfully implemented all you want at a low cost.......
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

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#181
Feb 23, 2013
 

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pipedream wrote:
you been reading and listening to too much right wing gossip and nonsense Really.
You're too dense to see light. I'll just leave it at that because you've shown time and time again you're incapable of critical thinking of any kind or even common sense for that matter. You're not going to ever convince me any different. I guess you'll just have accept the Affordable Health care because unless you have good employer sponsored health insurance you're going to have Obama's. There's no conspiracy in this Really. Its Reality, its the law of the land and you're just going to have to accept it. We'll see you in 10 years or so. In the meantime, if you don't like it and need health care. You can refuse to go to the Dr. or to a hospital. Tough Shitt.
And what you know about healthcare would fit on the head of a pin with a whole lot of room left over. Don't believe what I told you? Try doing the research, which we know you won't because you are too lazy to do anything but live off the government handouts and in your Mom's basement. Basically, you are a coward who is really, really brave behind the monitor, but you have zero clue about life. Stay where you are at and see how far you get once the rest of the country decides they have had enough of you and your progressive friends.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#182
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>And what you know about healthcare would fit on the head of a pin with a whole lot of room left over. Don't believe what I told you? Try doing the research, which we know you won't because you are too lazy to do anything but live off the government handouts and in your Mom's basement. Basically, you are a coward who is really, really brave behind the monitor, but you have zero clue about life. Stay where you are at and see how far you get once the rest of the country decides they have had enough of you and your progressive friends.
Did you miss my posting the ObamaCare individual mandate was/is a conservatives concept? Or did I just miss your response to it?
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

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#183
Feb 23, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you miss my posting the ObamaCare individual mandate was/is a conservatives concept? Or did I just miss your response to it?
Did you miss my post about who sets the rates that the physicians charge? I thought so. You think the Federal Government is so flipping wonderful, take a look at who sets the fees for services in the healthcare industry. Then, look at who controls the regulations on the healthcare industry. The government sets the rates and THEN complains because healthcare costs are too high? Really??? I guess hypocrisy is as rampant as the spending bug. Of course, I don't expect you or any of your elitist progressive buddies to blame the government. After all, we all know it's those greedy dirty doctors and businesses that are ruining this country. Whatever.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Owosso, MI

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#184
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>Did you miss my post about who sets the rates that the physicians charge? I thought so. You think the Federal Government is so flipping wonderful, take a look at who sets the fees for services in the healthcare industry. Then, look at who controls the regulations on the healthcare industry. The government sets the rates and THEN complains because healthcare costs are too high? Really??? I guess hypocrisy is as rampant as the spending bug. Of course, I don't expect you or any of your elitist progressive buddies to blame the government. After all, we all know it's those greedy dirty doctors and businesses that are ruining this country. Whatever.
For some reason, the progressives what to be like Greece, Spain, and now England....
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#185
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>Did you miss my post about who sets the rates that the physicians charge? I thought so. You think the Federal Government is so flipping wonderful, take a look at who sets the fees for services in the healthcare industry. Then, look at who controls the regulations on the healthcare industry. The government sets the rates and THEN complains because healthcare costs are too high? Really??? I guess hypocrisy is as rampant as the spending bug. Of course, I don't expect you or any of your elitist progressive buddies to blame the government. After all, we all know it's those greedy dirty doctors and businesses that are ruining this country. Whatever.
I have not seen any of your post that cite where and how the government sets the physicians rates. I've seen where you said it does but that is hardly a proof. And yes I have looked into it ans till can't find anywhere it proven so.

But lets look at another angle of it. Insurance carriers set the rates physicians charge within their networks. But that's okay as the physicians contract for it. Also insurance carriers set the rates they will pay for treatments and the patient is to make up the difference. So why would setting rates paid physicians be so unusual?

There are many many treatments and procedures when asked by the patient how much it will cost, the doctors and hospitals will not give a definitive answer. And when 62.1% of all individual bankruptcies are in large part caused by medical bills, even among educated upper middle class earners, and insured, there would seem to be an actual problem.

We have a health care system based in money not health care.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

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#186
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Really's statements that the feds set rates paid to health care providers is at best 5% fact and 95% b.s. The 5% fact part is probably very generous but I'm ok with it.
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

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#187
Feb 23, 2013
 

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pipedream wrote:
Really's statements that the feds set rates paid to health care providers is at best 5% fact and 95% b.s. The 5% fact part is probably very generous but I'm ok with it.
Perhaps you would like to do the research? If not, I suggest you decide what is BS based on facts, not on your lack of knowledge OR you lack of ambition to argue with information you looked up. Otherwise, you will continue to be what you appear..a lazy individual who only wants to insult, not contribute.
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

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#188
Feb 23, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I have not seen any of your post that cite where and how the government sets the physicians rates. I've seen where you said it does but that is hardly a proof. And yes I have looked into it ans till can't find anywhere it proven so.
But lets look at another angle of it. Insurance carriers set the rates physicians charge within their networks. But that's okay as the physicians contract for it. Also insurance carriers set the rates they will pay for treatments and the patient is to make up the difference. So why would setting rates paid physicians be so unusual?
There are many many treatments and procedures when asked by the patient how much it will cost, the doctors and hospitals will not give a definitive answer. And when 62.1% of all individual bankruptcies are in large part caused by medical bills, even among educated upper middle class earners, and insured, there would seem to be an actual problem.
We have a health care system based in money not health care.
The federal government sets the fee for each and every procedure that is performed. They then allow the insurance companies to negotiate the rates they will reimburse the physicians and hospitals. In the case of Medicaid, the reimbursement rate is about $.20 on the dollar. In the case of Medicare, it is $.25 on the dollar. Care to look it up? It's out there if you know where to look. The Affordable Care Act didn't address healthcare issues, which I agree should be addressed. It addressed cost issues and it hasn't and will not do anything to lower those costs. In fact, it is doing the exact opposite.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#189
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>The federal government sets the fee for each and every procedure that is performed. They then allow the insurance companies to negotiate the rates they will reimburse the physicians and hospitals. In the case of Medicaid, the reimbursement rate is about $.20 on the dollar. In the case of Medicare, it is $.25 on the dollar. Care to look it up? It's out there if you know where to look. The Affordable Care Act didn't address healthcare issues, which I agree should be addressed. It addressed cost issues and it hasn't and will not do anything to lower those costs. In fact, it is doing the exact opposite.
You are misrepresenting again. That Medicare, using your example, pays $.25 on the dollar does not set the price of the physician's rate. It means that's what Medicare will pay the physician. You've never been to a doctor or hospital where you had to sign the paper agreeing to pay whatever charges are not paid by the "insurance"?

Seriously, your entire premise that the Federal Government sets the rates of physicians and/or hospitals is completely wrong.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

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#190
Feb 23, 2013
 

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In a nutshell here is how Medicare reimbursement rates for physician services are set.

Medicare’s physician fee rates are based on the relative cost of providing services determined something called the Resource-Based Relative Value Scale (RBRVS). A panel of medical doctors, through the American Medical Association, updates the relative work values every five years based on: the time it takes to perform the service, the technical skill and physical effort, the required mental effort and judgment, stress due to the potential risk to the patient, malpractice rates in the area, and other geographic adjustments to reflect cost variation before coming up with a number. The process is also open to public comment and private health insurers — along with anyone else — have an opportunity to weigh in on the process and the rates.

other key factors in determining rates are these:

The Medicare Physician Payment Schedule

The Medicare payment schedule's impact on a physician's Medicare payments is primarily a function of three key factors:

The resource-based relative value scale (RBRVS)
The geographic practice cost indexes (GPCIs)
The monetary conversion factor

Similar factors are used to come up with payment schedules for hospital services.

So Really your assertion that the government 'sets the rates' it pays for physician services is at best only partially true. Your suggestion that Medicare reimbursement are somehow rigged, manipulated controlled by the government is absurd and flawed, which is nothing new for you.

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

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#191
Feb 23, 2013
 

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pipedream wrote:
In a nutshell here is how Medicare reimbursement rates for physician services are set.
Medicare’s physician fee rates are based on the relative cost of providing services determined something called the Resource-Based Relative Value Scale (RBRVS). A panel of medical doctors, through the American Medical Association, updates the relative work values every five years based on: the time it takes to perform the service, the technical skill and physical effort, the required mental effort and judgment, stress due to the potential risk to the patient, malpractice rates in the area, and other geographic adjustments to reflect cost variation before coming up with a number. The process is also open to public comment and private health insurers — along with anyone else — have an opportunity to weigh in on the process and the rates.
other key factors in determining rates are these:
The Medicare Physician Payment Schedule
The Medicare payment schedule's impact on a physician's Medicare payments is primarily a function of three key factors:
The resource-based relative value scale (RBRVS)
The geographic practice cost indexes (GPCIs)
The monetary conversion factor
Similar factors are used to come up with payment schedules for hospital services.
So Really your assertion that the government 'sets the rates' it pays for physician services is at best only partially true. Your suggestion that Medicare reimbursement are somehow rigged, manipulated controlled by the government is absurd and flawed, which is nothing new for you.
RBRVS GPCIs sounds like just another way to get more money for less work on the part of doctors. Yep my dad who is 93 hurt his back not long ago he was in a lot of pain and faced surgery so he went to a neurosurgeon the guy asked him what his pain level was from 1 to 10 ten being the highest my dad said 4 the doctor said well if it gets worse comeback maybe two minutes of consultation charged medicare $390.00 nothing like all of us getting screwed but that's the way it is. You all just wait until to the effects of BHO care hits us all in the face then you will all know why peloser didn't want anyone to read it she was carrying that mallet to show if anyone gets out of line the government will hit you with it. keep smokin that pipe and dreamin cause that's all you will have left after you have to pay your insurance bill..
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

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#192
Feb 23, 2013
 

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I'm on your side with that one Shoeless. Physicians, hospitals and other providers complain that medicare payments are too low so they petition congress to set rates higher which adds to the cost of the program. That's one big reason why costs are rising and out of control.

On the other hand you have to sympathize with Doctors, hospitals and other providers that are going broke. The health care issue is very complex but one that has to be dealt.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

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#193
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Here are some of the problems facing Medicare.

Medicare is 14% of the federal budget
Between 2010 and 2030, the number of people on Medicare is projected to rise from 46 million to 78 million
The Medicare Part A Hospital Insurance Fund will have insufficient funds to pay for full benefits beginning in 2019

Financing care for future generations is perhaps the greatest challenge facing Medicare, due to sustained increases in health care costs, the aging of the U.S. population, and the declining ratio of workers to beneficiaries. Annual increases in health care costs are placing upward pressure on Medicare spending, as for other payers. Government experts warn that by 2019, there will be insufficient funds in the Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance) Trust Fund to pay for benefits, 2 and most experts agree that current benefit levels cannot be sustained without additional revenue coming in to the program. Annual growth in Medicare spending is largely influenced by the same factors that affect health spending in general: increasing prices of health care services, increasing volume and utilization of services, and new technologies. In the past, provider payment reforms, such as the hospital prospective payment system, have helped to limit the growth in Medicare spending. Moving forward, system-wide efforts to curtail overall health care costs would help to improve Medicare’s financial outlook. There is general agreement among policymakers and experts that changes are needed to ensure the long-term viability of the Medicare program, but little consensus on how best to do so.
OhOhObama

Grand Rapids, MI

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#195
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Techincaly speaking, no liberal lefty should be bringing this issue up, and should be praising the guy.

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