Comments
141 - 160 of 183 Comments Last updated Feb 24, 2013
OhOhObama

Grand Rapids, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#153
Feb 21, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

After just going to the store, I don't think our govenor has a thing to do with any of this high price.

Just think next year will be even worse, by the time Obama gets done with us he just might have to leave the country.And take msnbc with him, and al gore.
Chip

Hartland, WI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#154
Feb 21, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
This is exactly why you are such a worthless person to be having any discussion with. You have no ability of comprehension and then you abbreviate to suit your purpose of a sick desire to be nothing other than contentious.
What I said was exactly; "Conversely, if they are to be seen as persons then we should treat them as persons. Having no rights and or privileges other than those of natural persons."
That you enjoy being a liar and cheat is not humorous.
You want to throw stupid stuff around about there being no relation between limiting people or business ability to spend money to promote their ideas and limiting those peoples freedom of speech. Then I'm going to throw crap right back in your face.

Now how about a real discussion about how you accomplish the change you want with some actual ideas instead of generalization.

I can tell you right now that things like not allowing corporations to be treated as separate entities will not work EVER. I didn't say you have to like it, just that it wont work. There are reasons corporations have to be treated separate from the owners/management.

Telling an individual that you are going to limit the amount of airtime they can purchase to advertise their opinions is simply limiting their freedom of speech.

So be very specific about what you think should be done and how it will be accomplished, otherwise you might as well just shut your trap.
Chip

Hartland, WI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#155
Feb 21, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
This is exactly why no sane person should ever consider money to be speech and subsidies should be eliminated for large corporations;
"Neither bank executives nor shareholders have much incentive to change the situation. On the contrary, the financial industry spends hundreds of millions of dollars every election cycle on campaign donations and lobbying, much of which is aimed at maintaining the subsidy. The result is a bloated financial sector and recurring credit gluts. Left unchecked, the superbanks could ultimately require bailouts that exceed the government’s resources. Picture a meltdown in which the Treasury is helpless to step in as it did in 2008 and 2009."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-20/why-...
Well if no relationship why would you care about how much is being spent?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#156
Feb 21, 2013
 
Chip wrote:
<quoted text>
You want to throw stupid stuff around about there being no relation between limiting people or business ability to spend money to promote their ideas and limiting those peoples freedom of speech. Then I'm going to throw crap right back in your face.
Now how about a real discussion about how you accomplish the change you want with some actual ideas instead of generalization.
I can tell you right now that things like not allowing corporations to be treated as separate entities will not work EVER. I didn't say you have to like it, just that it wont work. There are reasons corporations have to be treated separate from the owners/management.
Telling an individual that you are going to limit the amount of airtime they can purchase to advertise their opinions is simply limiting their freedom of speech.
So be very specific about what you think should be done and how it will be accomplished, otherwise you might as well just shut your trap.
I've already done it a couple of times but you have been unable to comprehend it. So I'm done with it.
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#157
Feb 22, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Like the Low Information Voters
Good point. To say nothing of the fact that one thing the progressives have managed to do quite effectively is compel a large number of low-info people who otherwise would have virtually no interest in politics, to not only cast a vote for Obama, but forcefully defend him at every turn. They can't point to Libya on a map, or tell you who the vice president is, let alone comprehend capitalism vs socialism, by by God these people like Obama for whatever reason and so whatever he says is OK by them.

On one hand it's good to see so many otherwise disinterested people educating themselves in politics. On the other hand, when it's considered in the same manner as 'American Idol', by people who's judgement is based more on the color of someone's skin or how many free things they think they'll receive, and what SNL's latest skit has to say, you have to wonder if it's really working for the best interest of our country.

No, I'm not saying they're aren't ignorant, racist, boneheaded voters on the right. But when polls come out showing a growing support for a president who's biggest accomplishment is perfecting the art of finger pointing, while our economy continues to flounder, wars continue to be waged and job reports suck beyond comprehension after four full years of opportunity to solve anything, you begin to question either the motives or the intelligence of those that continue to offer blind support to the party in charge.

At some point someone is going to have to explain why a president who's solved virtually none of our country's most dire issues, having on many occasions vowed they were his "top priority" has only managed to pass a really bad health care law that pretty much no one likes, is still being afforded the benefit of the doubt.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#158
Feb 22, 2013
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point. To say nothing of the fact that one thing the progressives have managed to do quite effectively is compel a large number of low-info people who otherwise would have virtually no interest in politics, to not only cast a vote for Obama, but forcefully defend him at every turn. They can't point to Libya on a map, or tell you who the vice president is, let alone comprehend capitalism vs socialism, by by God these people like Obama for whatever reason and so whatever he says is OK by them.
On one hand it's good to see so many otherwise disinterested people educating themselves in politics. On the other hand, when it's considered in the same manner as 'American Idol', by people who's judgement is based more on the color of someone's skin or how many free things they think they'll receive, and what SNL's latest skit has to say, you have to wonder if it's really working for the best interest of our country.
No, I'm not saying they're aren't ignorant, racist, boneheaded voters on the right. But when polls come out showing a growing support for a president who's biggest accomplishment is perfecting the art of finger pointing, while our economy continues to flounder, wars continue to be waged and job reports suck beyond comprehension after four full years of opportunity to solve anything, you begin to question either the motives or the intelligence of those that continue to offer blind support to the party in charge.
At some point someone is going to have to explain why a president who's solved virtually none of our country's most dire issues, having on many occasions vowed they were his "top priority" has only managed to pass a really bad health care law that pretty much no one likes, is still being afforded the benefit of the doubt.
What would those most pressing issues be that are not on the list linked? http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what...

And please spare me the "it's from a leftist/liberal/progressive/de mocrat leaning site" argument. We will never see a list of Obama's accomplishments on the right/conservative/republican leaning sites.

Again, the Affordable Healthcare Act is exactly what the Republicans had been favoring from as far back a Nixon. The same as Romney instituted in MA. And the "forced purchasing of health insurance" is from the insurance lobby to guarantee their incomes and profits. Not that I approve of it but it is the fact of life in our political system that private special interests are allowed to monetarily muscle our government officials for their own gain. Obama was clear what he wanted was a single payer plan. If you want I'll re-post the link to the Frontline investigative report where that is exactly what the insurance lobby said they would do. Use their money to misinform the public if they didn't get what they wanted.

And you want American competitiveness in the global market? Well we're the ONLY ones in that market where the "burden" of health care coverage is on the backs of the private sector businesses.

I'll ask; what have the Republicans/Tea Party done for the country? And blocking Obama is not a responsible response.
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#159
Feb 22, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
What would those most pressing issues be that are not on the list linked? http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what...
I got through the first three and couldn't stop laughing. Improved fiscal responsibility????!!!! Greater transparency???!!!!! Sorry, but you offer up a ridiculous thrill-up-the-leg written Obama worship piece of fiction and then demand that I take it seriously?

Let's just look at reality as we face it, not what someone tells us we see:

If anyone had an opportunity to have a real impact on America - to truly change us for the better - it was Barack Obama. Here's a guy who's half black and half white, excellent speaker, very compelling, young and with a campaign support team that was hands-down better than anything the dusty old GOP could conjure up.
He came into office with a super majority, coming off a president unpopular with both sides of the aisle who'd spent us into oblivion and failed to properly prepare us for the economic tsunami we were heading toward. Terrible policy-making, constitution-trampling, throwing us into a war against a country that arguable had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 and then digging in deeper. A president so divisive and toxic there was no GOP candidate capable of getting beyond his legacy - and the one they did offer was nothing more than a progressive in conservative's clothing. McCain stood about as much chance of winning as as the San Diego Padres!

Instead of tackling the economy and jobs - clearly the two most crucial items on the American people's mind, and that which he vowed he was focusing on like a laser - he took his super majority power and bully pulpit and set out manufacturing a health care crisis, rushing through a Clinton era pet-project health care law contrived in back rooms and passed by people who never even read it.

Did we really need to dismantle a flawed but superior health care system to most of which the rest of the world has BEFORE taking on jobs and the economy? Really???

And what was passed in the end? An even more flawed, NON-TRANSPARENT law that has already shown to not be what we were told and we're still deciphering what's in it. Can we keep our physicians if we want to? NO. Will this cost the taxpayer more than one single dime more? YEP.

Congrats on a law so entirely unpopular that Obama himself refused to even mention it for as long he possible could during his second term campaign because so many people want it repealed.

I'm not going to go into the fact he simply carried on with Bush's wars, failed to close GITMO, drops drones willy nilly, and continues to spend money on something he campaigned against. Or that he takes credit for exiting Iraq, which was nothing more than following Bush's timeline, or takes credit for killing Bin Laden, neglecting to admit he used information garnered from Bush's tactical plans.

I'm not going to go into the hypocrisy excoriating Bush for high fuel prices while under his presidency the price of fuel is far higher for a longer period of time - even setting historic records for the month of February as we speak.

"It's the republicans fault" ... and this is Obama's greatest legacy. He's perfected the art of pinning his failures on his enemies. And because he's supported by such ill-informed and ideologically skewed masses, they don't even hold him accountable for that which he created himself, let alone the promises he's failed to deliver on.

Even now he's contrived this sequestration farce himself and is busily trying to pin it on republicans. His own plan he now says will cause trauma and death to all if the republicans don't do something.

You and the author of that article can whitewash over the real issues, point fingers at everyone but Obama, and flat out lie if you want. Don't get pissy with me if I don't.
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#160
Feb 22, 2013
 

Judged:

2

2

2

SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
What would those most pressing issues be that are not on the list linked? http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what... .
I got through the first three and couldn't stop laughing. Improved fiscal responsibility????!!!! Greater transparency???!!!!! Sorry, but you offer up a ridiculous thrill-up-the-leg written Obama worship piece of fiction and then demand that I take it seriously?

Let's just look at reality as we face it, not what someone tells us we see:

If anyone had an opportunity to have a real impact on America - to truly change us for the better - it was Barack Obama. Here's a guy who's half black and half white, excellent speaker, very compelling, young and with a campaign support team that was hands-down better than anything the dusty old GOP could conjure up.
He came into office with a super majority, coming off a president unpopular with both sides of the aisle who'd spent us into oblivion and failed to properly prepare us for the economic tsunami we were heading toward. Terrible policy-making, constitution-trampling, throwing us into a war against a country that arguable had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 and then digging in deeper. A president so divisive and toxic there was no GOP candidate capable of getting beyond his legacy - and the one they did offer was nothing more than a progressive in conservative's clothing. McCain stood about as much chance of winning as as the San Diego Padres!

Instead of tackling the economy and jobs - clearly the two most crucial items on the American people's mind, and that which he vowed he was focusing on like a laser - he took his super majority power and bully pulpit and set out manufacturing a health care crisis, rushing through a Clinton era pet-project health care law contrived in back rooms and passed by people who never even read it.

Did we really need to dismantle a flawed but superior health care system to most of which the rest of the world has BEFORE taking on jobs and the economy? Really???

And what was passed in the end? An even more flawed, NON-TRANSPARENT law that has already shown to not be what we were told and we're still deciphering what's in it. Can we keep our physicians if we want to? NO. Will this cost the taxpayer more than one single dime more? YEP.

Congrats on a law so entirely unpopular that Obama himself refused to even mention it for as long he possible could during his second term campaign because so many people want it repealed.

I'm not going to go into the fact he simply carried on with Bush's wars, failed to close GITMO, drops drones willy nilly, and continues to spend money on something he campaigned against. Or that he takes credit for exiting Iraq, which was nothing more than following Bush's timeline, or takes credit for killing Bin Laden, neglecting to admit he used information garnered from Bush's tactical plans.

I'm not going to go into the hypocrisy excoriating Bush for high fuel prices while under his presidency the price of fuel is far higher for a longer period of time - even setting historic records for the month of February as we speak.

"It's the republicans fault" ... and this is Obama's greatest legacy. He's perfected the art of pinning his failures on his enemies. And because he's supported by such ill-informed and ideologically skewed masses, they don't even hold him accountable for that which he created himself, let alone the promises he's failed to deliver on.

Even now he's contrived this sequestration farce himself and is busily trying to pin it on republicans. His own plan he now says will cause trauma and death to all if the republicans don't do something.

You and the author of that article can whitewash over the real issues, point fingers at everyone but Obama, and flat out lie if you want. Don't get pissy with me if I don't.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#161
Feb 22, 2013
 

Judged:

3

3

3

Your garbage & nonsense is getting longer by the day and then you have to post it twice.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#162
Feb 22, 2013
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Yet everything in your novel is taken right from Rush Limballs.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#163
Feb 22, 2013
 
For the sake of argument lets say [the] sequestration was Obama's idea. What is the "sequestration" all about anyway? A forced set of cuts AND (revenue) increases set by a bi-partisan panel set into law if the two sides couldn't come together on alternatives.

Would the Republicans offer up such an idea? Not hardly. That would mean they would have to accept something other than what they want.

From a pragmatic perspective it takes courage and willingness to compromise even if by force knowing full well what will be arbitrated will not be a one sided decision and have it set into law. Something Republicans and Tea Partiers would never offer to be done.

I have never believed our health care system is inferior to socialized health care systems. Though I have read many many reports, actual reports not individual opinions, stating otherwise.

The problem we have with our system is three fold.
First; it's based on money not health. Those without the money do not get the same level of care as those with the money. And those that use the ER cause the rest to pay more for their coverages and treatments. So money not only adversely affects those who don't have it but also those who do.
Second; and not unrelated to the first, 62.1% of individual bankruptcies in this country were related to medical costs. While most of the medical debtors were well-educated, owned homes and had middle-class occu­pa­tions. Nearly three-quarters of them also had health insur­ance and were still forced to file bankruptcy.
Third; until Obamacare those with preexisting conditions were likely refused coverage. And where coverage was available the cost were more than likely to be out-of-reach.

The fallacy that our medical system is being dismantled is fear mongering. Though I do see where the fear would be in not allowing runaway profiteering by bringing health care costs into responsibility.

Anyone still believing Obama has done nothing about tackling the economy and jobs is sorely uninformed. I have proven that on more than one occasion.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#164
Feb 22, 2013
 
Here are the studies that not only prove our health care system is money driven but not superior to the rest of the OECD countries in relationship to money spent and quality of care.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/Files...

http://www.aei.org/outlook/health/global-heal...
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Brighton, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#165
Feb 22, 2013
 

Judged:

2

2

2

SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
What would those most pressing issues be that are not on the list linked? http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/what...
And please spare me the "it's from a leftist/liberal/progressive/de mocrat leaning site" argument. We will never see a list of Obama's accomplishments on the right/conservative/republican leaning sites.
Again, the Affordable Healthcare Act is exactly what the Republicans had been favoring from as far back a Nixon. The same as Romney instituted in MA. And the "forced purchasing of health insurance" is from the insurance lobby to guarantee their incomes and profits. Not that I approve of it but it is the fact of life in our political system that private special interests are allowed to monetarily muscle our government officials for their own gain. Obama was clear what he wanted was a single payer plan. If you want I'll re-post the link to the Frontline investigative report where that is exactly what the insurance lobby said they would do. Use their money to misinform the public if they didn't get what they wanted.
And you want American competitiveness in the global market? Well we're the ONLY ones in that market where the "burden" of health care coverage is on the backs of the private sector businesses.
I'll ask; what have the Republicans/Tea Party done for the country? And blocking Obama is not a responsible response.
Kool Aid.... Health Care on the backs of private sector business? The Govt employee get theirs on the backs of the tax payer... Private companies use the benefit to attract the best employees and now the O wants to destroy that freely wanted practice.....
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#166
Feb 22, 2013
 
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Kool Aid.... Health Care on the backs of private sector business? The Govt employee get theirs on the backs of the tax payer... Private companies use the benefit to attract the best employees and now the O wants to destroy that freely wanted practice.....
Those that think government is the solution to all problems will argue with that logic, but removing freedoms from individuals and businesses to work within their own structures and forcing them to rely on a single government platform is inherently restrictive and inefficient. Government is simply incapable of taking every single individual's lives into account. Government has never been able to run a self-reliant system because they don't have to balance a budget, let alone turn a profit. They just keep bleeding the taxpayer for more and more and more ...
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#167
Feb 22, 2013
 
So your only solution seems to be do nothing, maintain the status quo and let the insurance and pharmaceutical companies continue, as they have,to rape, steal and rob the current system all the way to the bank and let health care costs continue to sky rocket to the point that health care costs alone bankrupt not only the government but people who get sick and don't have coverage.

Your conspiracy theories are over the top and are what is blocking you from thinking properly.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#168
Feb 22, 2013
 
and if you let insurance and drug companies continue to run the show you're only going to see them bleed govt. and people to death. You are one dense person Oneal. Its people like you who are the problem. You really ought to find something else to do but blame Obama for everything that has or will go badly for you.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#169
Feb 22, 2013
 
Your so called free enterprise and the markets aren't the solution either Oneal. Insurance and drug companies and the health care providers are raping, robbing and pillaging,and laughing all the way to the back, not only govt. but people who for no other reason but that they get sick and have to use the system.

We spend more on health care that any other developed country MUCH MORE, and its to the point where that alone will bankrupt this country faster than anything else. What part of that can't you understand? If you love this country so much you had damn well better understand that our current health care system is a train wreck, and we're headed for another financial disaster if drastic changes are not put in place NOW.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#170
Feb 22, 2013
 
Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
Those that think government is the solution to all problems will argue with that logic, but removing freedoms from individuals and businesses to work within their own structures and forcing them to rely on a single government platform is inherently restrictive and inefficient. Government is simply incapable of taking every single individual's lives into account. Government has never been able to run a self-reliant system because they don't have to balance a budget, let alone turn a profit. They just keep bleeding the taxpayer for more and more and more ...
And we have been seeing how extraordinarily well our private healthcare system has been functioning haven't we. Not any bleeding, yes pun intended, of the people there , right? If it was functioning in reasonable limits we wouldn't even be having this conversation. All sides of the political spectrum would be against any structural changes. And as I have posted the

There was a report a while back on how Medicare had been defrauded for something like $800million, I don't remember the number exactly but that doesn't matter right now, and that's why Medicare should be scrapped. Well the clueless fail to realize it's the private sector that had been defrauding it. So ya lets put all our faith and trust in the private sector.

And as I've posted it was the conservatives that came up with the Individual Mandate.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#171
Feb 22, 2013
 
Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point. To say nothing of the fact that one thing the progressives have managed to do quite effectively is compel a large number of low-info people who otherwise would have virtually no interest in politics, to not only cast a vote for Obama, but forcefully defend him at every turn. They can't point to Libya on a map, or tell you who the vice president is, let alone comprehend capitalism vs socialism, by by God these people like Obama for whatever reason and so whatever he says is OK by them.
On one hand it's good to see so many otherwise disinterested people educating themselves in politics. On the other hand, when it's considered in the same manner as 'American Idol', by people who's judgement is based more on the color of someone's skin or how many free things they think they'll receive, and what SNL's latest skit has to say, you have to wonder if it's really working for the best interest of our country.
No, I'm not saying they're aren't ignorant, racist, boneheaded voters on the right. But when polls come out showing a growing support for a president who's biggest accomplishment is perfecting the art of finger pointing, while our economy continues to flounder, wars continue to be waged and job reports suck beyond comprehension after four full years of opportunity to solve anything, you begin to question either the motives or the intelligence of those that continue to offer blind support to the party in charge.
At some point someone is going to have to explain why a president who's solved virtually none of our country's most dire issues, having on many occasions vowed they were his "top priority" has only managed to pass a really bad health care law that pretty much no one likes, is still being afforded the benefit of the doubt.
Get the teabaggers and the rest of the GOP/TP crazies in Congress under control Oneal and your unhappy, blame filled life will change for the better. If you can't see this, I suggest you move somewhere else, preferably far away, and try to survive on your own.
Really

Kalamazoo, MI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#172
Feb 22, 2013
 
pipedream wrote:
Your so called free enterprise and the markets aren't the solution either Oneal. Insurance and drug companies and the health care providers are raping, robbing and pillaging,and laughing all the way to the back, not only govt. but people who for no other reason but that they get sick and have to use the system.
We spend more on health care that any other developed country MUCH MORE, and its to the point where that alone will bankrupt this country faster than anything else. What part of that can't you understand? If you love this country so much you had damn well better understand that our current health care system is a train wreck, and we're headed for another financial disaster if drastic changes are not put in place NOW.
And if YOU knew where to look, you would see that the very government that wants to run the healthcare industry currently sets the rates they can charge for each and every procedure. So, tell us again, who is driving up the healthcare costs AND wants to control how the citizens use that healtchare??? wouldn't be the insurance companies and big pharma, whom, by the way, contributed a whole lot of dinero to Mr. Obama's campaign fund. But, I don't expect you to believe that OR know how to look it up, so, keep shoving your head up the pipe.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Grand Rapids Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
College football roundup: Ohio State starts the... (Sep '13) 1 hr Buffalo Bull 1,324
why war with isis? 8 hr kookierecluse 17
Liberty University Law School Dean: Gay Marriag... 8 hr DNF 313
Plafkin Brothers-McDonalds, Home of the Famous ... (Jun '13) 12 hr Kelly Hadd 8
Cousins hope to open Grand Rapids' first hostel... 13 hr Faith 3
Local News Women (Apr '09) Tue Zee 2,297
Ellen Bacca Fan Club Tue Lindon 1
•••
•••
•••

Grand Rapids Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••

Grand Rapids People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Grand Rapids News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Grand Rapids
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••