Comments
21 - 40 of 183 Comments Last updated Feb 24, 2013

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#23 Feb 9, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>As I remember it though he wants to throw $75million into the "rainy day fund" right away.

And the problems we have had with roads long precedes Snyder and Grahnholm because we have the highest load limit in the country. Why nobody has moved to be in line with the rest is beyond me.

I believe it's in Germany that when roads are repaired, and even built, the company doing the work is on the hook for repairs for whatever many years they have it because the government knows what technology is there to do the job right. And when it's not, ooops. Guess who pays for the repairs. Not the tax payers.
But, as a newcomer I am really looking for information here, his proposal is to increase gas taxes on Diesel which certainly hits those really heavy trucks, and on gasoline which will impact those that drive a lot versus those that don't.

Both California and New York (very blue states) have much higher fuel taxes. My issue isn't the tax but what % is used for the roads versus diverted.

So what % of the fuel taxes in Michigan go to the roads and what % get diverted to other areas?
Really

Berrien Springs, MI

#24 Feb 9, 2013
pipedream wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you take your stupid crap and stick it where the sun don't shine. Your endless drivel stinks. You don't have a clue what you're talking about either.
Forgot to get your meds filled again, did you? Wouldn't mommy take you to the store to get it done?
Sassy

Grand Rapids, MI

#25 Feb 9, 2013
Not enough. Every time this comes up the Government says it is to fix roads, however, the gas tax does not all go to fixing the roads. It goes to the Transportion Department which could be anything, as far as I know. It is not designed to specifically go to road construction. Also, with regards to the federal tax on gas in MI, we do not get back 100% of our money back. I believe it is in the lower 90 percentile, but not sure. However, states like Alaska, get over 100% of their tax money back.

I haven't worked in the construction industry in close to 2 years now so don't quote me on these numbers. It is just what I remember.
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
But, as a newcomer I am really looking for information here, his proposal is to increase gas taxes on Diesel which certainly hits those really heavy trucks, and on gasoline which will impact those that drive a lot versus those that don't.
Both California and New York (very blue states) have much higher fuel taxes. My issue isn't the tax but what % is used for the roads versus diverted.
So what % of the fuel taxes in Michigan go to the roads and what % get diverted to other areas?

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#26 Feb 9, 2013
Sassy wrote:
<quoted text>Not enough. Every time this comes up the Government says it is to fix roads, however, the gas tax does not all go to fixing the roads. It goes to the Transportion Department which could be anything, as far as I know. It is not designed to specifically go to road construction. Also, with regards to the federal tax on gas in MI, we do not get back 100% of our money back. I believe it is in the lower 90 percentile, but not sure. However, states like Alaska, get over 100% of their tax money back.

I haven't worked in the construction industry in close to 2 years now so don't quote me on these numbers. It is just what I remember.
It's like the government setting tolls to keep the bridges kept up but then the money goes elsewhere and they raise taxes to pay to repair the bridges.

I get the Federal part, nature of government. But one would hope it would be different at the state level.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#27 Feb 9, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
But, as a newcomer I am really looking for information here, his proposal is to increase gas taxes on Diesel which certainly hits those really heavy trucks, and on gasoline which will impact those that drive a lot versus those that don't.
Both California and New York (very blue states) have much higher fuel taxes. My issue isn't the tax but what % is used for the roads versus diverted.
So what % of the fuel taxes in Michigan go to the roads and what % get diverted to other areas?
The governor's proposal is to increase the tax on gas AND diesel to $.33 per gallon. Plus a $120.00 increase in vehicle registration fees. Promoted to be for transportation infrastructure.

If you can find the percentages of what is used for actual transportation and otherwise be sure to let me know as I can't locate the actual breakdown.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#28 Feb 9, 2013
Sassy wrote:
Not enough. Every time this comes up the Government says it is to fix roads, however, the gas tax does not all go to fixing the roads. It goes to the Transportion Department which could be anything, as far as I know. It is not designed to specifically go to road construction. Also, with regards to the federal tax on gas in MI, we do not get back 100% of our money back. I believe it is in the lower 90 percentile, but not sure. However, states like Alaska, get over 100% of their tax money back.
I haven't worked in the construction industry in close to 2 years now so don't quote me on these numbers. It is just what I remember.
<quoted text>
The reason Michigan paid in among the highest taxes to the federal government and got so little back, 48th as I remember it, was because we were a highest economic producing state. "Redistribution of wealth". As it's no longer true we are among the highest we are still in the lowest to get any back.

That's speaking of ALL tax money redistributed. Not just transportation.
pipedream

Flint, MI

#29 Feb 9, 2013
Here is one reference you might find useful.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/web_gas_taxes.ph...

As for the 6% sales tax which Michigan imposes on fuel sales (one of only a few states that imposes such sales tax on fuel sales), NONE of it goes to road maintenance. That's right ZERO!

Here's another source.

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16...

Michigan could potentially have the nationís highest gas tax if Snyderís proposal to replace the state motor fuel tax with a higher wholesale tax becomes law. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Add to that, a 67% increase in vehicle registration fees along with additional fees imposed at the local levels.

Snyder and his cronies in Lansing and the corporate big shots who bank rolled his election campaign, and most, if not all of his legislative proposals, and election campaigns of numerous other GOP/TP candidates - namely Bolger, Richardville and several otheris - is proof they are bent on destroying what's left of the middle class who still reside in Michigan. Michigan is now a dictatorship controlled by a wealthy elite.
pipedream

Flint, MI

#30 Feb 9, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
The reason Michigan paid in among the highest taxes to the federal government and got so little back, 48th as I remember it, was because we were a highest economic producing state. "Redistribution of wealth". As it's no longer true we are among the highest we are still in the lowest to get any back.
That's speaking of ALL tax money redistributed. Not just transportation.
We're no longer considered even among the top states in household income, haven't been in quite sometime. Last statistic I recall is Michigan is about 34th. Michigan ranks about 37th in federal spending received per dollar of federal taxes.
pipedream

Flint, MI

#31 Feb 9, 2013
Another source related to return on Michigan federal gas tax.

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/12...

As far as I know this proposed legislation cited in this source has gone nowhere.

Michigan has long been a "donor" state with regards to the federal gas tax. That means it has always paid the federal government more in gas tax than it received back in federal highway funding. According to the Tax Foundation, Michigan has received about 92 cents on every dollar it has given from 1956 to 2005.

According to the Coalition for Donor State Equity, Michigan is the 23rd worst state in terms of return on their contributions at 92.1 cents on a dollar.

The coalition said that since 1956, Michigan has given $1.7 billion dollars that have been used to improve roads in other states.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#32 Feb 9, 2013
pipedream wrote:
Another source related to return on Michigan federal gas tax.
http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/12...
As far as I know this proposed legislation cited in this source has gone nowhere.
Michigan has long been a "donor" state with regards to the federal gas tax. That means it has always paid the federal government more in gas tax than it received back in federal highway funding. According to the Tax Foundation, Michigan has received about 92 cents on every dollar it has given from 1956 to 2005.
According to the Coalition for Donor State Equity, Michigan is the 23rd worst state in terms of return on their contributions at 92.1 cents on a dollar.
The coalition said that since 1956, Michigan has given $1.7 billion dollars that have been used to improve roads in other states.
I believe it. Both your posts.

My personal opinion, no facts to back it up, just observations over the years, is we spent so much time giving our money away, in the form of tax cuts, breaks, etc., to corporations that all they did was use that money to build their margins then move where labor was cheaper.

We spent too much time being a corporate nanny state that just got used against us in the end.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#33 Feb 9, 2013
"While we see the need for a modest increase in the fuel tax, we can only support it if it is coupled with a high level of accountability. In the past, money meant for roads has been diverted to other purposes, and an iron-clad guarantee against that must be built into any legislation. It also makes little sense to invest more in roads without addressing the factors that cause roads to worsen prematurely, including weight limits for trucks and inadequate construction standards that result in roads needing repair again just a few years after they were resurfaced.

The proposed legislation specifically states that money from a higher fuel tax must be placed in a Transportation Investment Fund that the state may not dip into for other purposes. But it does not address better construction standards for roads, and we believe it must."
http://www.annarbor.com/news/opinion/fuel-tax...

Maybe. Just maybe.
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

#34 Feb 10, 2013
Interesting, I wonder if the people po'd about what Snyder is doing had a problem with Obama's stimulus package and ongoing tax and spend platform. It's exactly the same, but spin spin spin it if you're stupid enough to waste your time on hypocrisy, liberals.

In a country truly of the for the people by the people there would be some accountability for the money taken from the taxpayer. 800 billion?? And people at best can only argue that it created a handful of temporary jobs and "probably saved us from a financial collapse" ... errrr, right.

If Snyder's gas tax raping goes through I want to know every damned penny is going to what he says it will. What are the chances of that??

Shouldn't matter what you are, liberal pantywaist or conservative whiner, until we can get past the not-so vital social issues and come together about these spend-drunk politicians running our country into debt beyond repair we're just a bunch of angry open wallets.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#35 Feb 10, 2013
Oneal wrote:
Interesting, I wonder if the people po'd about what Snyder is doing had a problem with Obama's stimulus package and ongoing tax and spend platform. It's exactly the same, but spin spin spin it if you're stupid enough to waste your time on hypocrisy, liberals.
In a country truly of the for the people by the people there would be some accountability for the money taken from the taxpayer. 800 billion?? And people at best can only argue that it created a handful of temporary jobs and "probably saved us from a financial collapse" ... errrr, right.
If Snyder's gas tax raping goes through I want to know every damned penny is going to what he says it will. What are the chances of that??
Shouldn't matter what you are, liberal pantywaist or conservative whiner, until we can get past the not-so vital social issues and come together about these spend-drunk politicians running our country into debt beyond repair we're just a bunch of angry open wallets.
Except 51% of the voters elected a President who feels we aren't spending enough and that we need more debt, not less. The majority of the "spend-drunk" politicians accurately represent their constituents. The biggest difference seems to be what to spend the money on, unfortunately not should we spend the money.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#36 Feb 10, 2013
Oneal wrote:
Interesting, I wonder if the people po'd about what Snyder is doing had a problem with Obama's stimulus package and ongoing tax and spend platform. It's exactly the same, but spin spin spin it if you're stupid enough to waste your time on hypocrisy, liberals.
In a country truly of the for the people by the people there would be some accountability for the money taken from the taxpayer. 800 billion?? And people at best can only argue that it created a handful of temporary jobs and "probably saved us from a financial collapse" ... errrr, right.
If Snyder's gas tax raping goes through I want to know every damned penny is going to what he says it will. What are the chances of that??
Shouldn't matter what you are, liberal pantywaist or conservative whiner, until we can get past the not-so vital social issues and come together about these spend-drunk politicians running our country into debt beyond repair we're just a bunch of angry open wallets.
Yes! I had a very real problem with some of it. Perhaps though not in what you mean by it. So please be more precise on what you are referring to in Obama's stimulus package.

Are you talking about the auto bail out that provisions were made in it that that money was to be paid back to the tax payers with interest? Are you talking about TARP, which was instituted by Bush?
Are you talking about cash for clunkers that was intended only to reduce the number of used cars out there so more new cars would be sold?

What Obama stimulus are you referring to?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#37 Feb 10, 2013
The truly sicking fallacious statement, be that by ill informed or mal-informed ignorance or just intended political rhetorical deception, is Democrats/Liberals/Progressive s are THE tax and spenders. Study after study, fact after fact is that EVERY time the Republicans are in control of DC spending increases. The size and scope of government increases. No body remembers Homeland Security? Looked at the cost of that? Na, probably not. But that's for a good reason isn't it.

At this very time, and I've posted it, Obama has spent less than every president since Eisenhower. Yet he's still this big spender.


But the Democrats/Liberals/Progressive s are spending WAY TOO MUCH on social programs instead of seeing to it more people are employed.
It all depends on what one considers "social programs" are.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/02...

But seeing as these haven't come from the CATO Institute, The Heritage Foundation, Mackinac Center for Public Policy or some other right-wing think tank they can't be accurate.
Really

Berrien Springs, MI

#38 Feb 10, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
The truly sicking fallacious statement, be that by ill informed or mal-informed ignorance or just intended political rhetorical deception, is Democrats/Liberals/Progressive s are THE tax and spenders. Study after study, fact after fact is that EVERY time the Republicans are in control of DC spending increases. The size and scope of government increases. No body remembers Homeland Security? Looked at the cost of that? Na, probably not. But that's for a good reason isn't it.
At this very time, and I've posted it, Obama has spent less than every president since Eisenhower. Yet he's still this big spender.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =FiW5I95R5xgXX
But the Democrats/Liberals/Progressive s are spending WAY TOO MUCH on social programs instead of seeing to it more people are employed.
It all depends on what one considers "social programs" are.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/02...
But seeing as these haven't come from the CATO Institute, The Heritage Foundation, Mackinac Center for Public Policy or some other right-wing think tank they can't be accurate.
You link motherjones but disparage "right wing think tanks"? Hypocrite much?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#39 Feb 10, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>You link motherjones but disparage "right wing think tanks"? Hypocrite much?
And my last sentence was "But seeing as these haven't come from the CATO Institute, The Heritage Foundation, Mackinac Center for Public Policy or some other right-wing think tank they can't be accurate."
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#40 Feb 10, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>You link motherjones but disparage "right wing think tanks"? Hypocrite much?
And, forget about it coming from Mother Jones it's gotten from Washington State University.
You can download the paper here http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm...
Really

Berrien Springs, MI

#41 Feb 10, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
And my last sentence was "But seeing as these haven't come from the CATO Institute, The Heritage Foundation, Mackinac Center for Public Policy or some other right-wing think tank they can't be accurate."
I didn't say it wasn't accurate, I said it's from a left wing hit group.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#42 Feb 10, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't say it wasn't accurate, I said it's from a left wing hit group.
So it matters more that it came from a Left wing hit group than it being accurate.... Okay.....

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