pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#309 Oct 17, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
You should read the article instead of just the headline.
The Spin Machine sure has you all starry eyed and wow wow eh beaver breath?
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#310 Oct 17, 2013
Senator Cruz, thank you, thank you for being the best thing for democrats since Joe McCarthy and Richard Nixon. Thank you for contributing to the Democratic Party more than any super-pac could ever do.

Any R who doesn't distance him/herself from this leper and the right-wing extremists of the GOP will not be around come next November. Guaranteed. The word is out and its going to get louder and louder over the next several months. Bye bye T-baggers ...

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#311 Oct 17, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
It "cost" them $24 Billion Dollars? Explain how not spending nor borrowing any additional dollars is a cost?
As the article points out "Let’s pause for a moment to underscore the point. In early September, a “clean” CR—including sequester cuts—that funded the government into 2014 was considered a Republican victory by both the Republican House Majority Leader and Washington’s most prominent Democratic think tank. Now, just over a month later, the media is describing the exact same deal as Republican “surrender.”
Care to explain which Republican reps will be in danger of losing their seats to D's in 2014 because of their vote on this? There were 144 R's who voted No and 87 R's who voted yes. Which one's are more likely to get primaried? Same with the D's. 198 D's (all of them) voted Yes. Are any of them going to get primaried for that? Here in Michigan among the R's there were 4 Yea and 5 Nay votes. Which one's messed up and will lose their seat?
Standard and Poors stated the $24v Billion figure, along with others....sadly, it does'nt count all the small business's that were effected by the national parks and monuments having to close.....

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#312 Oct 17, 2013
pipedream wrote:
Senator Cruz, thank you, thank you for being the best thing for democrats since Joe McCarthy and Richard Nixon. Thank you for contributing to the Democratic Party more than any super-pac could ever do.
Any R who doesn't distance him/herself from this leper and the right-wing extremists of the GOP will not be around come next November. Guaranteed. The word is out and its going to get louder and louder over the next several months. Bye bye T-baggers ...
So then you expect the five Nay's here in Michigan (Amash, Bentivilio, Huizenga, Miller and Walbeg) to get primaried? Ok. We will see who gets primaried and who is around after the election.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#313 Oct 17, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Standard and Poors stated the $24v Billion figure, along with others....sadly, it does'nt count all the small business's that were effected by the national parks and monuments having to close.....
Actually it does, and that is where they messed up. The look at it as a zero sum game.

"According to the National Park Service: They welcome more than 700,000 people per day usually in October and visitors spend an estimated $32 million per day impact in communities near national parks and contribute $76 million each day to the national economy. Those revenues were lost."

No, those revenues weren't lost. They just went someplace else. If a person was going on a weeks vacation to a National Park that was closed, they didn't cancel their vacation, they went somewhere else and spend their money elsewhere. Yes the small business next to Yosemite lost out but perhaps Disney or the wine country gained business. All of us have gone to buy something that we found out wasn't available and so we picked something else. We make choices all the time and when it comes to vacations, "cancel" is the very last alternative.

Other things were shifted. Someone was going to travel to DC on business but canceled the trip. Now they are going next week instead of last week. Again, the revenue wasn't lost it just was moved.

The workers are getting their back pay and consumers, when given a larger lump sum tend to spend it more so there will probably be a slight gain from government workers getting a larger check.

So think about this. Name something where the revenue was truly lost and wasn't just shifted to another business or time.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#314 Oct 17, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
So then you expect the five Nay's here in Michigan (Amash, Bentivilio, Huizenga, Miller and Walbeg) to get primaried? Ok. We will see who gets primaried and who is around after the election.
Don't know about Michigan yet, but at the national level you're going to see numerous Rs primary'd.
Its only a "cease-fire" till January. I doubt House Republicans will try to prevent the debt ceiling from being raised next February, given how badly they pissed off business leaders and Wall Street executives who bankroll much of the GOP. But there’s a significant chance of another government shutdown in January since every House member is up for reelection next year – mostly from safe (often gerrymandered) districts in which their major competitors are likely to be primary opponents from the Tea Party right, challenging them to show what they’ve done to sandbag Obamacare and shrink the size of government.
They've backed themselves into a corner -- Can't wait to see them squirm and claw themselves back into the light of day where everyone can get a good look at their weasel rat faces. Most of the action between now and then will be over the federal budget and we all know now where the GOP stands on that.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#315 Oct 17, 2013
pipedream wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't know about Michigan yet, but at the national level you're going to see numerous Rs primary'd.
Its only a "cease-fire" till January. I doubt House Republicans will try to prevent the debt ceiling from being raised next February, given how badly they pissed off business leaders and Wall Street executives who bankroll much of the GOP. But there’s a significant chance of another government shutdown in January since every House member is up for reelection next year – mostly from safe (often gerrymandered) districts in which their major competitors are likely to be primary opponents from the Tea Party right, challenging them to show what they’ve done to sandbag Obamacare and shrink the size of government.
They've backed themselves into a corner -- Can't wait to see them squirm and claw themselves back into the light of day where everyone can get a good look at their weasel rat faces. Most of the action between now and then will be over the federal budget and we all know now where the GOP stands on that.
I think that the ones that voted Yea have a greater chance of getting primaried than the ones that voted Nay. Most districts whether it is blue or red, are getting more polorized and as a result there are few ­moderate-to-conservative Democrats and ­moderate-to-liberal Republicans in the house.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/shutdo...

"Obama won just 705 of the nation’s 3,153 counties. But Rhodes Cook, an independent analyst of political trends, points out that the president won “the bulk of those counties that really mattered.” The House will continue to be red and will probably gain a few seats in 2014 (or more depending on Obamacare) while the White House will probably be Blue for some time as well.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#316 Oct 17, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
You should read the article instead of just the headline.
"Now that Republicans are backing off those demands, the press is saying they’ve caved. But that’s like saying that the neighborhood bully has caved because after demanding your shoes and bike, he’s once again willing to accept merely your lunch money.
Most of the press is missing this because most of the press is covering the current standoff more as politics than policy. If your basic question is “which party is winning?” then it’s easy to see the Republicans as losing, since they’re the ones suffering in the polls. But the partisan balance of power and the ideological balance of power are two completely different things. The Nixon years were terrible for the Democratic Party but quite good for progressive domestic policy. The Clinton years were, in important ways, the reverse. The promise of the Obama presidency was not merely that he’d bring Democrats back to power. It was that he’d usher in the first era of truly progressive public policy in decades. But the survival of Obamacare notwithstanding, Obama’s impending “victory” in the current standoff moves us further away from, not closer to, that goal."
Blah, blah, blah....... Let's all vote NO for victory!

Everything the baggers have fought for they've lost. They couldn't do away with the ACA, they couldn't obstruct their way into making Obama a one term president, and they couldn't even figure out how to secede from the union when they got their butts kicked!

It's time that this group of elderly white bible thumpers comes to the realization that the year is 2013 and not still 1813.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#317 Oct 17, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Blah, blah, blah....... Let's all vote NO for victory!
Everything the baggers have fought for they've lost. They couldn't do away with the ACA, they couldn't obstruct their way into making Obama a one term president, and they couldn't even figure out how to secede from the union when they got their butts kicked!
It's time that this group of elderly white bible thumpers comes to the realization that the year is 2013 and not still 1813.
"the year is 2013 and not still 1813"

Y'all keep saying that but it is Obama and the left that wants to get rid of cars and put everyone in a train or bike. It is the Blue party that wants to wipe out power plants and move to windmills. It's the progressive that wants to expand the political elites telling the rest of the peons what to do. Sorry but there is nothing in the progressive agenda that is truly progressive.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#318 Oct 17, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
It "cost" them $24 Billion Dollars? Explain how not spending nor borrowing any additional dollars is a cost?
Here's what Standard & Poors had to say about costs associated with the recent GOP govt. shutdown.

T-baggers like yourself always fail to see the effects of their lunacy. S&Ps credibility outweighs that of The Blaze any day.

"Standard & Poor’s calculates that the shutdown that has so far lasted just over two weeks has taken $24 billion out of the economy, shaving at least 0.6 percent off of GDP in the fourth quarter.

The agency had originally predicted a 3 percent growth rate in GDP this quarter, noting that “we thought politicians would have learned from 2011 and taken steps to avoid things like a government shutdown and the possibility of a sovereign default.” But now recognizing that “our forecast didn’t hold,” it has reduced that estimate to 2 percent.

While it notes that it believes the current deal to re-open the government and avoid a default will pass, it also warns that every day that the United States gets closer to defaulting on its debt by not raising the debt ceiling will take a toll on the economy.

When the government first shut down, IHS Inc. predicted that it would cost the economy $300 million a day in lost economic output. These estimates likely don’t take all the effects into account, however. Loans haven’t gone out from the Small Business Administration, permits have been held up, and government contracts have been put on hold. Communities near shuttered National Parks have lost $76 million a day. The government stands to lose out on billions in tax revenues."
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#319 Oct 17, 2013
Conservative Values

Piss away $24 billion in 16 days to complain about Government waste.

Way to go, T-Baggers. Score one!

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#320 Oct 17, 2013
pipedream wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's what Standard & Poors had to say about costs associated with the recent GOP govt. shutdown.
T-baggers like yourself always fail to see the effects of their lunacy. S&Ps credibility outweighs that of The Blaze any day.
"Standard & Poor’s calculates that the shutdown that has so far lasted just over two weeks has taken $24 billion out of the economy, shaving at least 0.6 percent off of GDP in the fourth quarter.
The agency had originally predicted a 3 percent growth rate in GDP this quarter, noting that “we thought politicians would have learned from 2011 and taken steps to avoid things like a government shutdown and the possibility of a sovereign default.” But now recognizing that “our forecast didn’t hold,” it has reduced that estimate to 2 percent.
While it notes that it believes the current deal to re-open the government and avoid a default will pass, it also warns that every day that the United States gets closer to defaulting on its debt by not raising the debt ceiling will take a toll on the economy.
When the government first shut down, IHS Inc. predicted that it would cost the economy $300 million a day in lost economic output. These estimates likely don’t take all the effects into account, however. Loans haven’t gone out from the Small Business Administration, permits have been held up, and government contracts have been put on hold. Communities near shuttered National Parks have lost $76 million a day. The government stands to lose out on billions in tax revenues."
And again, please really think about this. Name something where the revenue was truly lost and wasn't just shifted to another business or time. Loans that didn't go out last week will go out next week. Permits that weren't issues will be. Government contracts will be signed next week instead of last week (and if some are eliminated that might not be a bad thing.) In all of the articles I've read, including the one you listed, I've yet to see one real thing that truly disappeared. They all act like when people want to spend money but can't, they just give up. People don't do that at all.

Yes, National Parks lost $76M/day but that money didn't get thrown in the fire. It was spent somewhere else; at another vacation spot, at a different restaurant, on something else. People didn't just sit at home and pout. As I said a long time ago. Life for those in the real world continued on. We went to work, bought stuff, watched movies, ate out, etc.

If you truly believe that millions of people just sat around their homes for the past two weeks watching TV, you really don't understand people or economics.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#321 Oct 17, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
And again, please really think about this. Name something where the revenue was truly lost and wasn't just shifted to another business or time. Loans that didn't go out last week will go out next week. Permits that weren't issues will be. Government contracts will be signed next week instead of last week (and if some are eliminated that might not be a bad thing.) In all of the articles I've read, including the one you listed, I've yet to see one real thing that truly disappeared. They all act like when people want to spend money but can't, they just give up. People don't do that at all.
Yes, National Parks lost $76M/day but that money didn't get thrown in the fire. It was spent somewhere else; at another vacation spot, at a different restaurant, on something else. People didn't just sit at home and pout. As I said a long time ago. Life for those in the real world continued on. We went to work, bought stuff, watched movies, ate out, etc.
If you truly believe that millions of people just sat around their homes for the past two weeks watching TV, you really don't understand people or economics.
I feel it necessary to intervene here as you are trying to paint a rather false rosy picture...
There were 800,000 people affected by this mess in the D.C. area.
They did not drive to work so gas station money was lost.
They did not stop for coffee or doughnuts so money was lost.
They did not use the Public Transportation so money was lost.
They did not use Public Parking so money was lost.
They did not take their family out for supper so money was lost.
They did not go out for a few drinks so money was lost.

The list can go on and on...not everyone diverted to another way to spend their money, in fact most hunkered down and spent minimal money because of the bleak outlook.

That and a huge number of people will never see a penny from all of this as they work for gov't contractors who will get nothing from all of this.

Wake up...please.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#322 Oct 17, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
And again, please really think about this. Name something where the revenue was truly lost and wasn't just shifted to another business or time. Loans that didn't go out last week will go out next week. Permits that weren't issues will be. Government contracts will be signed next week instead of last week (and if some are eliminated that might not be a bad thing.) In all of the articles I've read, including the one you listed, I've yet to see one real thing that truly disappeared. They all act like when people want to spend money but can't, they just give up. People don't do that at all.
Yes, National Parks lost $76M/day but that money didn't get thrown in the fire. It was spent somewhere else; at another vacation spot, at a different restaurant, on something else. People didn't just sit at home and pout. As I said a long time ago. Life for those in the real world continued on. We went to work, bought stuff, watched movies, ate out, etc.
If you truly believe that millions of people just sat around their homes for the past two weeks watching TV, you really don't understand people or economics.
Regarding your last paragraph...I've been driving 395 into D.C. every Tuesday for 7 years. The last 2 Tuesdays were by far the lightest traffic ever, even lighter than holidays. The people who were furloughed were most certainly staying at home and watching TV. Probably cursing at the idiots in congress.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#323 Oct 17, 2013
Hahah. Here's another example of GOTP hypocrisy at its finest. Double talk much? Liar, liar pants on fire?

hypocrisy [h&#618;&#712;p&#5 94;kr&#601;s&#618;]
n pl -sies
1. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one's real character or actual behavior, esp the pretense of virtue and piety
2. an act or instance of this

Tea Party Republican Defends Being on Medicaid While Opposing Medicaid

http://gawker.com/tea-party-republican-defend...

The larger issue is how does an a-hole like this guy get elected to high office in the first place?

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#324 Oct 17, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
And again, please really think about this. Name something where the revenue was truly lost and wasn't just shifted to another business or time. Loans that didn't go out last week will go out next week. Permits that weren't issues will be. Government contracts will be signed next week instead of last week (and if some are eliminated that might not be a bad thing.) In all of the articles I've read, including the one you listed, I've yet to see one real thing that truly disappeared. They all act like when people want to spend money but can't, they just give up. People don't do that at all.
Yes, National Parks lost $76M/day but that money didn't get thrown in the fire. It was spent somewhere else; at another vacation spot, at a different restaurant, on something else. People didn't just sit at home and pout. As I said a long time ago. Life for those in the real world continued on. We went to work, bought stuff, watched movies, ate out, etc.
If you truly believe that millions of people just sat around their homes for the past two weeks watching TV, you really don't understand people or economics.
The Regional loss for this area was estimated at $200 million per day...
http://www.wusa9.com/politics/article/279262/... -

If they are wrong, please feel free to come and tell them so. That way we'll all know you are the one to turn to when questions arise. Or...admit you are wrong...

“Tod nach links!”

Since: Aug 08

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue

#325 Oct 17, 2013
pipedream wrote:
Senator Cruz, thank you, thank you for being the best thing for democrats since Joe McCarthy and Richard Nixon. Thank you for contributing to the Democratic Party more than any super-pac could ever do.
Any R who doesn't distance him/herself from this leper and the right-wing extremists of the GOP will not be around come next November. Guaranteed. The word is out and its going to get louder and louder over the next several months. Bye bye T-baggers ...
You might want to read this. http://thefederalist.com/2013/10/15/new-ameri...

I know you've probably broken out the bubbly but you may not want to drink it just yet. The only thing Ted Cruz did was display a hard-right faction of the Republican Party. It seems very obvious that your man Obama is a hard-left socialist which is just as bad. Dreams of Hillary Clinton living in the White House may just be that, dreams. No Tea Party candidate will win the White House, that is for certain however, after eight years of Obama, no progressive leftist will either. If Obamacare destroys the healthcare industry, so goes the destruction of the Democratic Party and you know it's true. So you better hope the Obamacare train doesn't wreak. Also, if Chris Cristie enters the race he WILL beat Hillary. I've got money on that if anybody wants to take that bet.
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#326 Oct 17, 2013
Dream on ... Republicans will be lucky to hang onto the House next time around. You 'really' ought to cut back on whatever news sources you're reading/listening to that are affecting your judgment so negatively. As for Christie, he'll be lucky to not keel over from a stroke, heart attack or some other serious health issue before the next election.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#327 Oct 17, 2013
Bob wrote:
Blah, blah, blah....... Let's all vote NO for victory!
For both sides. Your pal Barry didn't get everything he wanted either. Aren't you late for work at the taco stand?
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#328 Oct 17, 2013
pipedream wrote:
Dream on ... Republicans will be lucky to hang onto the House next time around.
LOL...two words for you, pippy. Personal. Mandate.

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