Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

#41 Apr 14, 2009
You can thank the "Great Society" programs. Simply destroys families.
Another Opinion

Spring Lake, MI

#42 Apr 14, 2009
Businessminded wrote:
<quoted text>
Your conclusion has absolutely NO merit except for sex causes babies. How the parents turn out afterwards depends on the people they were before and after sex & babies. I have a niece whom was pregnant at 16. She married & eventually had another boy and stopped. Got a job - now is a home owner and shown tons of responsibility. I have another niece whom made far less responsible decisions and she is the kind we all pay for. I could write a long list of people from all walks of life who are good and bad parents. Some were virgins when they got married and now in the middle of a nasty divorce that has the kids dead center. My best friend 'got into another relationship'-married and her kids now have a great father figure. You're suggesting these kids would be better off without him in their lives is beyond silly.
So my point is 'virgins' don't create "good parents", people do.
Stepping off soap box now....
Yes, I agree that virgins don't create good parents, but engaging in sexual relationships before your ready to have children is simply irresponsible and selfish.. The problem is that too many people feel this type of behavior is expectable then bitch when they have to pay taxes to support these children. Society canít have it both ways.
Is stand by original statement - keep your pants on people and think with the correct part of your bodies.
BTW I also have a niece who go peg in high school, and is doing amazing now (married father) does not make her past actions any less irresponsible and selfish.

“Dude, Where's my car?”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#43 Apr 14, 2009
Businessminded wrote:
<quoted text>
Your conclusion has absolutely NO merit except for sex causes babies. How the parents turn out afterwards depends on the people they were before and after sex & babies. I have a niece whom was pregnant at 16. She married & eventually had another boy and stopped. Got a job - now is a home owner and shown tons of responsibility. I have another niece whom made far less responsible decisions and she is the kind we all pay for. I could write a long list of people from all walks of life who are good and bad parents. Some were virgins when they got married and now in the middle of a nasty divorce that has the kids dead center. My best friend 'got into another relationship'-married and her kids now have a great father figure. You're suggesting these kids would be better off without him in their lives is beyond silly.
So my point is 'virgins' don't create "good parents", people do.
Stepping off soap box now....
Thanks for pointing that out... I was pretty wild in High School and right after. If someone was going to try and pick who would have made a good father if they had kids, I would have probably been on the bottom of the list. But my upbringing and personality came to the surface when my GF got pregnant and we got married. The first time I held that life that I had helped create in my arms, I was a Dad, through and through and have been right on until the present day where I am both a proud father and grand-father. Granted, my marriage didn't last (16 years) but being a father is a life-time position.

“ACLU--Jihad with a law degree”

Since: Sep 08

Knoxville, TN

#44 Apr 14, 2009
So does anyone else see a correlation between the breakdown of the family and the breakdown of civilization?
Ryan

Grand Rapids, MI

#45 Apr 14, 2009
Over 50 wrote:
Interesting statistic for 2007 ... is this representative of declining morals or just declining interest in marriage? Forty percent is a provocative number ...
I think it is a decrease in morals if you couple this with other statistics. I recently read that in 2006 20% of teens reported their first experience of intercourse happened before the age of 15 and 85% of teens had had sex before 19. No wonder we have to have daycare in our schools now. Where are the parents to set and example and teach their children. Also couples who live together before marriage are over twice as likely to get a divorce. Marriage and families have become inconveniences that can be dicarded when difficulites arise. Every downfall of great societies in history has been preceded by a loss of family and moral values. We seemed to be on the same path.

“Fear causes hesitation”

Since: Mar 09

Holland, MI

#46 Apr 14, 2009
Constitutional Mark wrote:
So does anyone else see a correlation between the breakdown of the family and the breakdown of civilization?
Yea, Ann Coutler does, she wrote a recent book about it.

Of course, critizing the breakdown of the nuclear family and civilization is hate speech.
Businessminded

Saint Charles, IL

#47 Apr 14, 2009
Another Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I agree that virgins don't create good parents, but engaging in sexual relationships before your ready to have children is simply irresponsible and selfish.. The problem is that too many people feel this type of behavior is expectable then **** when they have to pay taxes to support these children. Society canít have it both ways.
Is stand by original statement - keep your pants on people and think with the correct part of your bodies.
BTW I also have a niece who go peg in high school, and is doing amazing now (married father) does not make her past actions any less irresponsible and selfish.
Your original statement went way farther than 'be responsible'. Your statement insinuated their was no place for a man in a single mom's life.

Now, I am in agreement that people in general need to have way more responsible sexual behavior. Your definition of 'being ready' undoubtedly is "getting married". I would argue that being ready to be a parent is about far more than waiting to have children until your married. Particularly with a 50% divorce rate and who knows what additional 'percentage' are unhealthy married parents.
Businessminded

Saint Charles, IL

#48 Apr 14, 2009
Hurley35 wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks for pointing that out... I was pretty wild in High School and right after. If someone was going to try and pick who would have made a good father if they had kids, I would have probably been on the bottom of the list. But my upbringing and personality came to the surface when my GF got pregnant and we got married. The first time I held that life that I had helped create in my arms, I was a Dad, through and through and have been right on until the present day where I am both a proud father and grand-father. Granted, my marriage didn't last (16 years) but being a father is a life-time position.
Thanks for being a great example!:) Marriage is hard. Parenting is hard. Responsibility is a key factor and so is education. In this case, you admit your upbringing was key.
Businessminded

Saint Charles, IL

#49 Apr 14, 2009
Constitutional Mark wrote:
So does anyone else see a correlation between the breakdown of the family and the breakdown of civilization?
Yes and no. I see a variety of factors at work. It is predictable in many cases that a young pregnant girl either had a mother who was pregnant young, or somebody else that they knew. In the case of my one niece, both her mother and grandmother were pregnant at 16. Her grandmother is now in her late 60's. The 'mother' raised her son alone and remarried and had her daughter in that marriage. Despite her numerous 'lectures' to her daughter the daughter got pregnant. Why? It's obviously more than one reason, but a key factor was when graduation day came, nobody thought she should go to college. She had almost no support to persue college. I was personally told 'she's not smart enough'.(which I knew was not true) Now she is a young mother with no husband or boyfriend repeating a family cycle. The problem is neither the grandmother, mother or daughter understand that self esteem (lack thereof) is a KEY factor.
Businessminded

Saint Charles, IL

#51 Apr 14, 2009
Constitutional Mark wrote:
So does anyone else see a correlation between the breakdown of the family and the breakdown of civilization?
I also think it's a little cyclical. When divorce rates were lower, so was the population. The 'hippy era' was a symbolic breakdown of the 'traditional family' and exposed some of the farceness of how some people lived.

I think their could be an argument that 'civilization' has had many ups & downs and that many centuries before us that 'civilization' was not our 'ideal'.

Having said all of that, their are MANY bad things in this world today that are caused by a lack of morals & family values. And since those things are typically 'taught' one could easily agree their is a breakdown occuring. But I believe Murderers, rapists and child abusers are both inside marriages & family and outside. I guess I would say the problems are likely more directly related to self esteem, love and the general 'disconnect' to people in general. Consider what some people are willing to say to others on this forum. Most would agree never to say these things to a person's face and yet think nothing of it to type it annonymously.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#52 Apr 14, 2009
Hey Business...your statement..."I guess I would say the problems are likely more directly related to self esteem, love and the general 'disconnect' to people in general."
Actually you pegged one cause/reason why so many children have problems. The failure to bond or connect is mentioned many times in the reading I've done. The authors mention how children want to be held or are curious about a camera or some other article and just want some attention.
Then, later on, they turn to drugs to escape or doing crazy things to get attention or even gangs where they get a sense of a bond.

“DISALLUSIONED!”

Since: Jan 09

Scotts

#53 Apr 14, 2009
And kids are being taught what in school? Sex Ed?
Have you ever watched some of these court shows on tv where the girl, who's 17, has 3 kids by different fathers, and is now sueing a guy so that he has to take a DNA test, because she is sure he has to be the daddy to one of her kids. It comes out that she has slept with 10 different guys, and anyone of them could be the father.
You know guys and girls, there is a cure for pregnancies. There's the pill, rubbers etc. Din't school teach you anything because obviously momma didn't.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#54 Apr 14, 2009
Businessminded wrote:
<quoted text>
I also think it's a little cyclical. When divorce rates were lower, so was the population. The 'hippy era' was a symbolic breakdown of the 'traditional family' and exposed some of the farceness of how some people lived.
I think their could be an argument that 'civilization' has had many ups & downs and that many centuries before us that 'civilization' was not our 'ideal'.
Having said all of that, their are MANY bad things in this world today that are caused by a lack of morals & family values. And since those things are typically 'taught' one could easily agree their is a breakdown occuring. But I believe Murderers, rapists and child abusers are both inside marriages & family and outside. I guess I would say the problems are likely more directly related to self esteem, love and the general 'disconnect' to people in general. Consider what some people are willing to say to others on this forum. Most would agree never to say these things to a person's face and yet think nothing of it to type it annonymously.
Great post Businessminded. I would have to agree that self-esteem plays a HUGE role things like this. People talking of needing a two parent home to be well adjusted. Well, coming from a two parent home, it is easy to say that that is not always the case. To the outside, it may look like everything is great, but when you are inside, things are not always what they seem. Those self-esteem issues can arise whether you are from a two parent home, or a single parent home, whether being a father or mother. It all depends on the quality of the parenting.

Where the problem lies, IMO, is the quality. While parents are too busy furthering their careers, than to know what is going on with their kids. Too busy having friends, than to ask your children how they are feeling. Too caught up in their own lives to give a damn what it is their children want or are feeling. That I believe to be the problem. Along with other factors. Abuse, neglect, feelings of abandonment.

I believe you hit it on the head with the hippie era, exposing the farceness on how people lived. Because it is not always roses and daisies the way people want you to believe, and I am sure they were fed up with the picture society was trying to portray.

How can one say it is better to have a two parent home when things can be even more dysfunctional. Is that what we want our kids to learn? Take it no matter what? What about those in abusive marriages? Physical or emotional. Do we want to show our kids it is ok to be treated a certain way for the sake of a marriage? That that is how marriage should be? Would you want your kids to be treated that way in their marriage? Or does their happiness count for anything? No wonder people are leaving marriage behind. They just have to look at their parents.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#55 Apr 14, 2009
little-me wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope you didn't take offense to what I wrote about some of the folks where I work...
You take pride in your children's accomplishments, own a home and take pride in it, work for a living, provide your children with a stable, loving, male role model, and make decisions based on what is best for your family.
You're a great Mom. Not at all like those people I was talking about.
None taken. I just wanted to relay one success story amid all the bad. Thank you.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#56 Apr 14, 2009
plainwellS wrote:
And kids are being taught what in school? Sex Ed?
Have you ever watched some of these court shows on tv where the girl, who's 17, has 3 kids by different fathers, and is now sueing a guy so that he has to take a DNA test, because she is sure he has to be the daddy to one of her kids. It comes out that she has slept with 10 different guys, and anyone of them could be the father.
You know guys and girls, there is a cure for pregnancies. There's the pill, rubbers etc. Din't school teach you anything because obviously momma didn't.
What happens when those contraceptives don't work? I have mentioned more than once on this forum that I got pregnant while on the pill. Sometimes fate has a different path for some.
Allegan Redneck

United States

#57 Apr 14, 2009
...just want you all to know I had absolutely nothing to do with this statistic

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#58 Apr 14, 2009
Another Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I agree that virgins don't create good parents, but engaging in sexual relationships before your ready to have children is simply irresponsible and selfish.. The problem is that too many people feel this type of behavior is expectable then **** when they have to pay taxes to support these children. Society canít have it both ways.
Is stand by original statement - keep your pants on people and think with the correct part of your bodies.
BTW I also have a niece who go peg in high school, and is doing amazing now (married father) does not make her past actions any less irresponsible and selfish.
Yes, it is irresponsible. But society has had these problems since the beginning of time. Except back then, they just shipped these girls off somewhere to have these babies and force adoption upon them. Cast them out. Can you imagine the pain that some of those girls faced, while nothing would happen to the father.

And what would be the other option? Abortion? So people would not have to carry the burden of paying for these children? I know many people that would be against that one. So, what do you do? It is easy to say keep it in your pants. And we can see how well the celibacy programs work. If I am wrong, correct me, but I do believe they have a higher percentage of getting pregnant than those who do not engage in them. Could it be that you tell kids not to do something, it sounds even better to them?
Dave

Grand Rapids, MI

#59 Apr 14, 2009
EXACTLY !!!!!! No sex ed. and this is what you get.
GR Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
The result of 6 years of Bush style sex ed. When I saw the headline I thought Batch was going to blame Obama for the January, February and March 2009 statistics.
That tramp married yet.
Pam

Grand Rapids, MI

#60 Apr 14, 2009
God didn't create man to be celibate " Go forth and multiply" means just what is sounds like.
Think about it.
Amazarak wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it is irresponsible. But society has had these problems since the beginning of time. Except back then, they just shipped these girls off somewhere to have these babies and force adoption upon them. Cast them out. Can you imagine the pain that some of those girls faced, while nothing would happen to the father.
And what would be the other option? Abortion? So people would not have to carry the burden of paying for these children? I know many people that would be against that one. So, what do you do? It is easy to say keep it in your pants. And we can see how well the celibacy programs work. If I am wrong, correct me, but I do believe they have a higher percentage of getting pregnant than those who do not engage in them. Could it be that you tell kids not to do something, it sounds even better to them?

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#61 Apr 14, 2009
Pam wrote:
God didn't create man to be celibate " Go forth and multiply" means just what is sounds like.
Think about it.
<quoted text>
I'm not sure if you totally understood what I was saying. I was saying that these celibacy programs do not work. That those who are in the celibacy programs have a higher rate of teenage pregnancy than those who do not.

It is all about parenting, and talking responsibility to your kids. Being upfront and honest with them. Sex is a part of life. I find it funny that we let children watch movies filled with violence and killing but are aghast to having them watch anything with sex or nudity. Which is worse?

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