Unions strike cost 18,500 jobs

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Linda

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#22
Nov 30, 2012
 

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Gville Jim wrote:
Solyndra executives took home millions in bonus money before they went bankrupt.
But, then, Solyndra was run by a bunch of Obama's cronies, and campaign contributors, and recieved some $550 million in stimulus money from Obama as a payback for their contributions.
I guess thats why in liberal land, those bonus's were o-k.
Ohhhhhhh the Hypocrisy of the left just continues.........
Lol!!!
Bob

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#23
Dec 1, 2012
 

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FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
None. The bonuses are $1.8 million. That works out to $97.30 per worker. Hostess is in the red for billions. Whether the execs get $0,$1.8 million or $18 million it has no impact on the workers, their final pay or the bankruptcy proceedings. The only ones it impacts are those that eventually buy the brands. And they will probably pay more to the lawyers than for the bonuses.
What someone else makes has no impact on anyone else within a company. Whether the CEO makes $1 or $100 million, it has zero impact on what other people are paid.
More importantly, what difference does it make to you and your paycheck?
I hope those executives use that same argument when they thumb their noses at all the unsecured creditors they screwed over.

Since: Feb 10

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#24
Dec 2, 2012
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
That probably makes sense, except for the fact that most of these companies continue to make marketing an other mistakes that keep them from catching their competition. This, high-priced corporate talent must be full of hidden talents, because you just don't often see it, in the way the specific business is run.....Years ago, i had business with the #2 man for Federated Dept. Stores, i believe they had Macys, Marshall Fields and Jordan Marsh or Hudsons....One of the worst personalitie's, you would see in your life.....yet, he must have had hidden corporate talents....
Remember "New Coke"? Huge company. Very smart people. Spent lots of money coming up with a product to beat Pepsi. Huge mistake that cost them billions. Remember these companies: Circuit City, Best Buy, Linens n Things, Bradlees, Office Max, Corel, Gateway, Eastern Airlines. TWA, Nokia, A&W Restaurants? The list can go on and on. Sometimes good people can save a company and sometimes they can't.

I've also met folks with horrible personalites who were very successful in business, and very nice people who couldn't manage themselves much less something bigger.

And I've also had people work for me who thought they could easily do the next job and yet when they got it were disasters because the job entailed a lot more than they thought it did.

But at the end of the day, the real issue seems to be coming from a bunch of 8 year olds that it isn't fair. As soon as someone can explain why it is fair for someone to make $5,000,000/year for hitting a ball every so often, or $38,000,000/year for talking to other people on TV, but it isn't fair that another person makes $1,000,000 for trying to keep 15,000 people employed, then I'll listen to them.

Since: Feb 10

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#25
Dec 2, 2012
 

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Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope those executives use that same argument when they thumb their noses at all the unsecured creditors they screwed over.
According to the judge "He noted that the over 3,000 rank-and-file employees assisting in the liquidation were also getting paid beyond their regular salaries, and that new Hostess CEO Greg Rayburn had ruled out a bonus for himself."

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/29/news/companie...

BTW, there is a reason why they call it "unsecured." And again, the total money paid as extra pay for the rank-and-file workers is greater than the bonuses paid to the execs. So should those 3,000 work for free so the unions can get a larger payout?
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#26
Dec 3, 2012
 
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the judge "He noted that the over 3,000 rank-and-file employees assisting in the liquidation were also getting paid beyond their regular salaries, and that new Hostess CEO Greg Rayburn had ruled out a bonus for himself."
http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/29/news/companie...
BTW, there is a reason why they call it "unsecured." And again, the total money paid as extra pay for the rank-and-file workers is greater than the bonuses paid to the execs. So should those 3,000 work for free so the unions can get a larger payout?
And once again......

Only the lowly educated would fail to understand why people being asked to give up a couple of thousand in wages would be upset by theirs bosses taking millions in pay raises......

Since: Oct 12

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#27
Dec 3, 2012
 
What is the fun in supporting a political party, that's primary concern is....the protection of millionaires and billionaires wealth, at the expense of the middle class and working poor.....that is unless, you can make it an enjoyable pastime?

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#28
Dec 3, 2012
 
HAVE YOU CHECKED ON YOUR FAVORITE BILLIONAIRE TODAY?...HERE'S HOW....In case you were under the opinion there was'nt much new under the sun, how about being able to check the daily forunes of your favorite billionaire? Yep, that's now available on a terminal for subscribers to Bloomberg Markets, the 751,000-circulation magazine. The December issue of Bloomberg Markets will even give you the name of China's richest man, Zong Qinghou.....Since Bloomberg Markets hired Matthew Miller, the former global wealth editor at Forbes Media, the amount of available information skyrocketed....Bloomberg has some 1,600 journalists in 72 countries. Miller's new job includes the task of tracking about 200 global billionaires, and with all of those eager journalists on hand, seeking bylines, gathering news is surely simplified. They have already discovered more than 40 previously "unknown" members of this exclusive club.....As they continue to mine for murky millionaires, Miller's minions also came up with a pair of female moneymakers that qualify. They include Elaine Marshall, a major stockholder of Koch Industries, and Dirce Comargo, Brazil's richest lady. The South American gal is worth a cool $13.4 billion.....So here's a possible new pastime. Wake up a bit early, do your excercise, have breakfast, and then spend some "quality time" checking on the financial ups and downs of a billionaire or two. Sounds like fun? You may even glean a major moneymaking tip or two, and when you have a million or two to play with.... well who knows?

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

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#29
Dec 3, 2012
 
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
And once again......
Only the lowly educated would fail to understand why people being asked to give up a couple of thousand in wages would be upset by theirs bosses taking millions in pay raises......
I understand why they would be upset. And the answer is the same one any good parent gives their 7 year old when they complain that "it's not fair". Life isn't fair, never has been and never will be. Fairness comes in the next life.

But it's ok for a child to complain that something isn't fair. What is scary is when an adult, demonstrating their brains stopped learning in grade school, complains that "it's not fair" and then votes based on childish emotions.

BTW, still waiting for you to answer any of the questions you've been asked.
Linda

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#30
Dec 3, 2012
 
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>I understand why they would be upset. And the answer is the same one any good parent gives their 7 year old when they complain that "it's not fair". Life isn't fair, never has been and never will be. Fairness comes in the next life.

But it's ok for a child to complain that something isn't fair. What is scary is when an adult, demonstrating their brains stopped learning in grade school, complains that "it's not fair" and then votes based on childish emotions.

BTW, still waiting for you to answer any of the questions you've been asked.
Lol!!!

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

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#31
Dec 3, 2012
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
HAVE YOU CHECKED ON YOUR FAVORITE BILLIONAIRE TODAY?...HERE'S HOW....In case you were under the opinion there was'nt much new under the sun, how about being able to check the daily forunes of your favorite billionaire? Yep, that's now available on a terminal for subscribers to Bloomberg Markets, the 751,000-circulation magazine. The December issue of Bloomberg Markets will even give you the name of China's richest man, Zong Qinghou.....Since Bloomberg Markets hired Matthew Miller, the former global wealth editor at Forbes Media, the amount of available information skyrocketed....Bloomberg has some 1,600 journalists in 72 countries. Miller's new job includes the task of tracking about 200 global billionaires, and with all of those eager journalists on hand, seeking bylines, gathering news is surely simplified. They have already discovered more than 40 previously "unknown" members of this exclusive club.....As they continue to mine for murky millionaires, Miller's minions also came up with a pair of female moneymakers that qualify. They include Elaine Marshall, a major stockholder of Koch Industries, and Dirce Comargo, Brazil's richest lady. The South American gal is worth a cool $13.4 billion.....So here's a possible new pastime. Wake up a bit early, do your excercise, have breakfast, and then spend some "quality time" checking on the financial ups and downs of a billionaire or two. Sounds like fun? You may even glean a major moneymaking tip or two, and when you have a million or two to play with.... well who knows?
Seems like a better use of one's time would be to study investing and become a millionaire rather than wasting one's time with class envy. In your research did you notice that most of those in your list came from very little and made it on their own, or the original wealth builder did?

You make a big deal of the Koch brothers. Fred C. Koch, after whom Koch Industries, Inc. is named, co-founded the company in 1940. He came from very little, got an education and started working and eventually started a small company in Wichita Kansas. Sam Walton had nothing and built a huge business in Bentonville Arkansas. More recently, there is nothing that Mark Zuckerberg did that millions of other people couldn't have done, but they didn't.

Fred Kock was 40 when he started his business. He made it grow and then when he died in '67 his sons took over and grew it some more. Instead of complaining about them why don't you start a business and make your own billions?

Harland David Sanders took $105 from his first social security check and started Kentucky Fried Chicken at 65.

Name one American who is part of the 1% that made their money in a way that no one else could have.

Since: Oct 12

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#32
Dec 3, 2012
 
Only thing i have ever complained about pertaining to the Koch brothers, was them and the republican far-right, hijacking the control of the tea party away from the well-meaning citizens that had started it....It's just that, if you are gonna support a political agenda that protects and promotes the super wealthy, then you might as well, celebrate the players.....
Linda

United States

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#33
Dec 3, 2012
 
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>Seems like a better use of one's time would be to study investing and become a millionaire rather than wasting one's time with class envy. In your research did you notice that most of those in your list came from very little and made it on their own, or the original wealth builder did?

You make a big deal of the Koch brothers. Fred C. Koch, after whom Koch Industries, Inc. is named, co-founded the company in 1940. He came from very little, got an education and started working and eventually started a small company in Wichita Kansas. Sam Walton had nothing and built a huge business in Bentonville Arkansas. More recently, there is nothing that Mark Zuckerberg did that millions of other people couldn't have done, but they didn't.

Fred Kock was 40 when he started his business. He made it grow and then when he died in '67 his sons took over and grew it some more. Instead of complaining about them why don't you start a business and make your own billions?

Harland David Sanders took $105 from his first social security check and started Kentucky Fried Chicken at 65.

Name one American who is part of the 1% that made their money in a way that no one else could have.
He obviously does not have the intelligence to make it big investing. Even if he did why would anyone want to be a millionaire. Have you not heard? They punish success, anyone that is successful now days is scum. Lie, cheat, and steal is the new thing. Just look how well Obama is doing with it.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

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#34
Dec 3, 2012
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
Only thing i have ever complained about pertaining to the Koch brothers, was them and the republican far-right, hijacking the control of the tea party away from the well-meaning citizens that had started it....It's just that, if you are gonna support a political agenda that protects and promotes the super wealthy, then you might as well, celebrate the players.....
1st part, I've never heard of the Koch brothers being at a TEA party event. I have heard the TEA party referred to as the "far right" of Republican party so I don't see how the TEA party hijacked control of itself.

2nd part, The Dems do a very good job of celebrating the players, especially those in the entertainment world that contribute to their funds and help spread their message that only the special (intelligence and/or talent) can be successful, and so for the majority it isn't possible to make it without government aid.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#35
Dec 4, 2012
 
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand why they would be upset. And the answer is the same one any good parent gives their 7 year old when they complain that "it's not fair". Life isn't fair, never has been and never will be. Fairness comes in the next life.
But it's ok for a child to complain that something isn't fair. What is scary is when an adult, demonstrating their brains stopped learning in grade school, complains that "it's not fair" and then votes based on childish emotions.
BTW, still waiting for you to answer any of the questions you've been asked.
Speaking of ranting like a seven year old.....

How many times have we had to listen to you idiots whining about unions not being fair?

I guess in Teabaghistan fairness only goes in one direction!

Since: Feb 10

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#36
Dec 4, 2012
 
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of ranting like a seven year old.....
How many times have we had to listen to you idiots whining about unions not being fair?
I guess in Teabaghistan fairness only goes in one direction!
Actually none. I've never said the unions are not "fair." I've said they do more harm than good, that they have outlived their usefulness, that companies get the unions they deserve, and similar comments, but I've never said they weren't "fair."

And again, your strawman goes up in flames.
Freedom

Grand Rapids, MI

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#37
Dec 4, 2012
 
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually none. I've never said the unions are not "fair." I've said they do more harm than good, that they have outlived their usefulness, that companies get the unions they deserve, and similar comments, but I've never said they weren't "fair."
And again, your strawman goes up in flames.
How can a union outlived their usefulless? Has companies decided to give big raises to its employees? Have they decide to share the wealth? NO!!!! As long as there is a power to lower wages, take away benefits, there be a use for unions to be around. Why don't people talk about the union that companies belong to? Their purpose is to lower wages.
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#38
Dec 4, 2012
 
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
What IS blatantly obvious is that company management either failed to operate the business in a profitable manner, or like many other companies have done, looked to increase profits by making workers take cuts in pay and benefits.
I have no idea where you came up with your figures, but you or that source failed to mention what management was giving up, which most likely was nothing.
I feel sorry for the workers who have lost their jobs due to management's failures. To blame the workers for problems that the company's owners created is typical of anyone who has never had to work production without any say in how the company operates.
Bottom Line -
The company and its management failed!
What is blatantly obvious is, sales were down along with demand, and now all of a sudden they are the best sweet in the world.

Think about it no company went bankrupt because sales were too good.

Who really gives a dam about twinkies, other than St stupid? and the rest of the stoner nation.
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#39
Dec 4, 2012
 
Mark wrote:
Executive are asking the judge to approve $1.8 million in bonuses for executives after they said they can't affort to pay retiree benefits:
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/349626/3/Hos... -
Executives are lining up their golden parachutes as they run the business into the ground.
1.8 million for those who stay on to manage the company thru bankruptcy! Nothing uncommon about that, it will have to be managed thru this.

How many that are upset, actually bought Twinkies on a regular basis?
Linda

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#40
Dec 4, 2012
 
Freedom wrote:
<quoted text>How can a union outlived their usefulless? Has companies decided to give big raises to its employees? Have they decide to share the wealth? NO!!!! As long as there is a power to lower wages, take away benefits, there be a use for unions to be around. Why don't people talk about the union that companies belong to? Their purpose is to lower wages.
Unions destroy companies because they push to far. The corruption in the union is what useless. When Unions were formed they were needed and useful for workers rights. Now days they don't fight for much despite what you think a lot of unions are weak. Management and unions are almost one of the same. Lots of jobs can go the way of a robot. Unions are more of a business. They take money in from workers and send it to the Dumoldrats.

Since: Feb 10

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#41
Dec 4, 2012
 
Freedom wrote:
<quoted text>
How can a union outlived their usefulless? Has companies decided to give big raises to its employees? Have they decide to share the wealth? NO!!!! As long as there is a power to lower wages, take away benefits, there be a use for unions to be around. Why don't people talk about the union that companies belong to? Their purpose is to lower wages.
In the beginning unions were created and existed to combat poor working conditions and unsafe environments. Today, OSHA does a much better job of making sure working environments are safe then the unions.

Regarding both wages and employment, unions can increase wages for those that are already there, but that limits employment and creates additional costs for the consumer, which can reduce demand which potentially can put a company out of business.

You seem to think that a business exists to employ people. That's beyond stupid. A business exists to make a product that people will buy and provide the owner(s) with a source of income.

A business doesn't set the worker's wages. Other people do. As a business I can set the wage for a CPA in accounting at $9/hour but I won't get anyone who is qualified at that wage, even though the business set it there. OTOH, if I need someone to stock shelves and I'm willing to pay $9/hour but I have 100 people who want the job, are qualified and willing to work for $8/hour, then it is those people that made it an $8/hour job, not me.

The real issue is that those jobs that were semi-skilled are disappearing to robots and technology. What used to take 20 welders is now done by one person running a computer. And there are a lot of people who can run the computer. So 20 highly paid welders were replaced by a kid who is good at computer games and makes a lot less. That's not the fault of the business.

Other issue is that you and me and other consumers every day say that what we really want is low cost goods. Given the choice between a $12 shirt made in the USA to pay for higher wages, and a $7 shirt made overseas for lower wages, we buy the cheaper shirt. Every time. In some things, we are willing to pay extra for American quality/experience/etc. But in a lot of areas, we are not. Look at your home. How many shirts, shoes, pants, phones, dishes, TV's, etc. do you have that are made in the US?

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