say what

Farmington, MI

#61 Aug 2, 2010
4boys-1princess wrote:
The burning of the Quran will not eliminate the message from being disseminated.
That isn't why people burn books.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#62 Aug 2, 2010
4boys-1princess wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sorry, I was not clear. I have no problem with the Quran as writings practiced by moderate Muslims, ideas which of course the current government of Iran does not subscribe to. I do believe that we may have a moral obligation to spread the American lifestyle. We are told in our Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal and that our rights are given to us by our creator. Perhaps you feel God only means for you to be free?
I do believe that we may have a moral obligation to spread the American lifestyle?

That's right, George Washington alluded to world rule in his musings. I forget, so can you explain what part of these cherished documents provide for that? No need to give to lengthy an explanation, just the article number would do.

“THINK before you speak”

Since: Apr 08

mayberry usa

#63 Aug 2, 2010
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
I do believe that we may have a moral obligation to spread the American lifestyle?
That's right, George Washington alluded to world rule in his musings. I forget, so can you explain what part of these cherished documents provide for that? No need to give to lengthy an explanation, just the article number would do.
You are mistaken about my thoughts on the subject. I am not suggesting that the United States rule the world. I am suggesting that people living in every country should have the opportunity to live in freedom just like you do. I wonder -why the sarcasm regarding the "cherished documents". Are they not cherished by you?

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#64 Aug 2, 2010
"The Christian God can be seen as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a 3 headed monster; cruel, evil and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging three headed, beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites" -- Thomas Jefferson

Since: Jun 09

GR

#65 Aug 2, 2010
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
I really hate to break this to you, but there isn't anything in that book that is harmful to your way of life. If the people who practice this religion have any wish to harm our country, it is because of the history we have in that region. Do you think that the Iranian people didn't suffer during the time that the Shah was being propped up our government?
As much as the citizens of this country may feel blessed by our form of government, it does not give us the right or moral duty to spread that lifestyle on a people who have been living under their form of governing that is only a few thousand years old.
Tell the thousands of families who lost loved-ones to a fiery death that there isn't anything in that book that is harmful to their way of life.

These radicals have been practicing their "religion of peace" lifestyle for only a few thousand years. Long before ol' W. and shotgun Dick came along. Of course that little speck of reality doesn't fit the pot-smoking '60's bitter radical template, so it must be "transformed" into something that just started happening in 2004.

“THINK before you speak”

Since: Apr 08

mayberry usa

#66 Aug 2, 2010
say what wrote:
<quoted text>
That isn't why people burn books.
Oh, I believe it is. This particular church does not want the ideas in the Quran to be read or practiced by others. It won't work. If we truly believe we are at war against extremist Islam, then we need to understand the teachings so we can point out effectively the errors we perceive.
say what

Farmington, MI

#67 Aug 2, 2010
Bob wrote:
That's right, George Washington alluded to world rule in his musings.
Do you really believe that the only way to spread the principles of democracy is through invasion and conquering? That's really the only way you can conceive of to accomplish that? Wow.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#68 Aug 2, 2010
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
I really hate to break this to you, but there isn't anything in that book that is harmful to your way of life. If the people who practice this religion have any wish to harm our country, it is because of the history we have in that region. Do you think that the Iranian people didn't suffer during the time that the Shah was being propped up our government?
As much as the citizens of this country may feel blessed by our form of government, it does not give us the right or moral duty to spread that lifestyle on a people who have been living under their form of governing that is only a few thousand years old.
There are probably just as many lines of text in the quran as there is in the bible about killing and destroying those of different belief systems. While people in this country have come to outgrow (mostly) those lines of text, it seems people following islam have not. It is almost like they are still in the middle ages carrying out their grotesque form of honor killings.

I do however, believe this hatred for us has a lot to do with our politics and the US stretching it's arm across the world.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#69 Aug 2, 2010
4boys-1princess wrote:
<quoted text>
You are mistaken about my thoughts on the subject. I am not suggesting that the United States rule the world. I am suggesting that people living in every country should have the opportunity to live in freedom just like you do. I wonder -why the sarcasm regarding the "cherished documents". Are they not cherished by you?
Sorry, but you are the pointed out the christian roots of this nation and how its founding documents prove it. I'm not prone to falling for any line without proof, and that is why I asked you what part of these writings expressed the goal of spreading across the globe, your cherished beliefs.

Still waiting.....

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#70 Aug 2, 2010
4boys-1princess wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I believe it is. This particular church does not want the ideas in the Quran to be read or practiced by others. It won't work. If we truly believe we are at war against extremist Islam, then we need to understand the teachings so we can point out effectively the errors we perceive.
The first error is that there's NO evidence for a god of any kind existing at any point in time. I guess that makes both sides even.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#71 Aug 2, 2010
Amazarak wrote:
<quoted text>
There are probably just as many lines of text in the quran as there is in the bible about killing and destroying those of different belief systems. While people in this country have come to outgrow (mostly) those lines of text, it seems people following islam have not. It is almost like they are still in the middle ages carrying out their grotesque form of honor killings.
I do however, believe this hatred for us has a lot to do with our politics and the US stretching it's arm across the world.
True, like you said I believe that people in forward thinking countries like the USA have adapted their religious texts or interpretation of them to support progressive ways of life in light of new secular findings.

People in backward thinking countries adapt their lives to religious texts instead.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#72 Aug 2, 2010
_Dingo wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell the thousands of families who lost loved-ones to a fiery death that there isn't anything in that book that is harmful to their way of life.
These radicals have been practicing their "religion of peace" lifestyle for only a few thousand years. Long before ol' W. and shotgun Dick came along. Of course that little speck of reality doesn't fit the pot-smoking '60's bitter radical template, so it must be "transformed" into something that just started happening in 2004.
Many of those families understand what the root cause of that day is, and it will not be found in the pages of the quran. It is found in the history of this country's policies in the middle east. I know it is really hard to grasp the idea that our actions are not loved across this world, but that is the reality.

To call these people radicals, and to only jokingly refer to Islam as a religion of peace is rather strange coming from someone living in a country that has spread its own form on genocide from time to time. Wasn't there something in your bible talking about who could cast the first stone?

Those fleas must really be bothering you today. What's the address of the tree you're tied to?
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#73 Aug 2, 2010
Amazarak wrote:
<quoted text>
There are probably just as many lines of text in the quran as there is in the bible about killing and destroying those of different belief systems. While people in this country have come to outgrow (mostly) those lines of text, it seems people following islam have not. It is almost like they are still in the middle ages carrying out their grotesque form of honor killings.
I do however, believe this hatred for us has a lot to do with our politics and the US stretching it's arm across the world.
It seems a little more than a coincidence that these people didn't feel the need to attack us for the first several hundred years we were around.
MarkLuxford

Grand Rapids, MI

#74 Aug 2, 2010
I think that church is doing a good job of showing people how ignorant they are. Islam sees the Quran as the third and final installment of God's word to His people. They see the Old Testament as the first installment, the New Testament as the second, and the Quran as the third and final installment. Islam sees many of the leading figures in the Old Testament and New Testament as prophets, and require followers of that faith to say "Peace be upon him" immediately after mentioning any of those prophets...including Jesus and Muhammed. There's a lot that the three major religions have in common, which remains hidden by ignorance.
say what

Farmington, MI

#75 Aug 2, 2010
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems a little more than a coincidence that these people didn't feel the need to attack us for the first several hundred years we were around.
Guess you forgot about the crusades and what they were in response to?
say what

Farmington, MI

#76 Aug 2, 2010
4boys-1princess wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I believe it is. This particular church does not want the ideas in the Quran to be read or practiced by others.
That may be what you believe, but it is not the reason the group gives.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#77 Aug 2, 2010
say what wrote:
<quoted text>
Guess you forgot about the crusades and what they were in response to?
Texas history book?

The USA wasn't around during the crusades.
say what

Farmington, MI

#78 Aug 2, 2010
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Texas history book?
The USA wasn't around during the crusades.
Maybe you're the one reading those Texas history books? The USA hasn't been around for several hundred years.

“THINK before you speak”

Since: Apr 08

mayberry usa

#79 Aug 2, 2010
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but you are the pointed out the christian roots of this nation and how its founding documents prove it. I'm not prone to falling for any line without proof, and that is why I asked you what part of these writings expressed the goal of spreading across the globe, your cherished beliefs.
Still waiting.....
If you want words referencing God, how about "Creator or Supreme Judge of the World". The thing is, the men who wrote the constitution did not live in an intellectual vacuum. They were great intellectuals, these men, and much of the writings were biblically based. The great documents we have today did not just jump from someones mind willy nilly. The founders were influenced by their religious beliefs, and the ideas of others just as we all are. Their beliefs sprang from a Reformation foundation. These teachings produced the idea against the deity of kings, and that since all men are sinners, no man is superior to another. The twin principals of liberty and equality sprang from these ideas. Other forms of government, including dictatorships, do not share these beliefs. As for spreading the ideals of freedom and liberty to others in the world, the question should not be how do you justify it, but how do you not?
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#80 Aug 2, 2010
say what wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you're the one reading those Texas history books? The USA hasn't been around for several hundred years.
Texas math book?

How long has the USA been around?

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