My stance on "entitlements", and what are they?

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SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#1
Jan 22, 2013
 

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We hear a lot of talk on eliminating to reducing entitlements to heal the national debt. But what are entitlements and who are their beneficiaries?

The first thing that comes to people's minds because it's the most talked and published about are Social Security, Medicare and the like. The "social safety nets". Is Social Security really an entitlement when it's been paid into for so many years through payroll taxes by the people who do end up receiving it? Is the individual retirement plan an entitlement? Is Medicare an entitlement when those on it mostly have been paying into it through payroll taxes and pay a monthly premium while a recipient? Is an individual health care plan an entitlement when premiums are paid by the individual and/or their employer?

This link http://www.thegreeneconomy.com/corporate-enti... contains a good share of what I believe are the entitlements that pass under the radar of the public in general. The ones that conveniently get left out of the discussion for public scrutiny.
You rape the taxpayers

Chicago, IL

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Jan 22, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
We hear a lot of talk on eliminating to reducing entitlements to heal the national debt. But what are entitlements and who are their beneficiaries?
The first thing that comes to people's minds because it's the most talked and published about are Social Security, Medicare and the like. The "social safety nets". Is Social Security really an entitlement when it's been paid into for so many years through payroll taxes by the people who do end up receiving it? Is the individual retirement plan an entitlement? Is Medicare an entitlement when those on it mostly have been paying into it through payroll taxes and pay a monthly premium while a recipient? Is an individual health care plan an entitlement when premiums are paid by the individual and/or their employer?
This link http://www.thegreeneconomy.com/corporate-enti... contains a good share of what I believe are the entitlements that pass under the radar of the public in general. The ones that conveniently get left out of the discussion for public scrutiny.
No one cares what you think. People like you steal from the taxpayers, destroy jobs, and run up massive debt while wasting our money on programs design to subsidize people who refuse to work.

Move to Europe.
Troll Hunter

Ada, MI

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#3
Jan 23, 2013
 

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You rape the taxpayers wrote:
<quoted text>
No one cares what you think. People like you steal from the taxpayers, destroy jobs, and run up massive debt while wasting our money on programs design to subsidize people who refuse to work.
Move to Europe.
And people like you don't want to live in a civilized society. You think you are lone wolves, bootstrapping your way through life and hoping for the day you can finally go Galt.

Move to Somalia.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Pinckney, MI

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#4
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Troll Hunter wrote:
<quoted text>
And people like you don't want to live in a civilized society. You think you are lone wolves, bootstrapping your way through life and hoping for the day you can finally go Galt.
Move to Somalia.
You don't pay income tax do you? The society only works when you don't have skin in the game. Shut up about giving up 45% of your earnings when you don't.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Pinckney, MI

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#5
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Zero liability voters suck from the producers.
Troll Hunter

Ada, MI

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#6
Jan 23, 2013
 

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I will have you know, sir, that I pay my fair share of income taxes as a member of the $80,000 to $100,000 income range. With them, as justice Holmes said, I buy civilization. I expect I probably pay more in income taxes than you do. By the arguments of the standard wingnut (like, you know, you), that gives me a more important voice than someone who pays less taxes.

Therefore, I say the following: Let my taxes go to support those who have greater need; who are down on their luck; who were damaged by the corporate takeover of the government (supported in full by the Republican party). Let my taxes provide health care to those who cannot afford it themselves, food to the hungry, shelter to the poor.

You, Batch, typing from the safety of your parents' basement (like all right-wingers in these forums)...well, you just go back to fantasizing about the day that corporations have bought up every asset in this country, and the wonderfully, wildly inaccurate idea that you will be anything other than grist for the mill if your afternoon fantasy comes true.

Best of luck to you, Batch; you adorable little trailer-trash monkey.
Chip

Madison, WI

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#7
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Troll Hunter wrote:
I will have you know, sir, that I pay my fair share of income taxes as a member of the $80,000 to $100,000 income range. With them, as justice Holmes said, I buy civilization. I expect I probably pay more in income taxes than you do. By the arguments of the standard wingnut (like, you know, you), that gives me a more important voice than someone who pays less taxes.
Therefore, I say the following: Let my taxes go to support those who have greater need; who are down on their luck; who were damaged by the corporate takeover of the government (supported in full by the Republican party). Let my taxes provide health care to those who cannot afford it themselves, food to the hungry, shelter to the poor.
You, Batch, typing from the safety of your parents' basement (like all right-wingers in these forums)...well, you just go back to fantasizing about the day that corporations have bought up every asset in this country, and the wonderfully, wildly inaccurate idea that you will be anything other than grist for the mill if your afternoon fantasy comes true.
Best of luck to you, Batch; you adorable little trailer-trash monkey.
Your effective federal tax rate is below 10%
Ghost of Chucky Heston

Grand Rapids, MI

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#8
Jan 23, 2013
 

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You rape the taxpayers wrote:
<quoted text>
No one cares what you think. People like you steal from the taxpayers, destroy jobs, and run up massive debt while wasting our money on programs design to subsidize people who refuse to work.
Move to Europe.
Lets set up a tent state and disown it. Pick one. No running water, no healthcare, no schools and no law. We can call it Little Haiti. Throw all those who can't make it on their own out of the population. Watch them die of disease and natural disasters and pretend it doesn't exist. We'll pretend we are still a Christian nation and we'll continue to be one of the richest people on the planet.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#9
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>You don't pay income tax do you? The society only works when you don't have skin in the game. Shut up about giving up 45% of your earnings when you don't.
If that's so true Batch why do you so fervently support companies and the tax system that allows them to pay no income tax and yet get refunds? Your bluster and fuss is all empty.
Probably why the society isn't working. Because they don't have any "skin in the game".
Sassy

Grand Rapids, MI

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#10
Jan 23, 2013
 
I agree, SS and Medicare are not entitlements. We have paid into it for years and deserve our share back. Will we get it? Probably not, but those are not entiltements.
SeenItBefore wrote:
We hear a lot of talk on eliminating to reducing entitlements to heal the national debt. But what are entitlements and who are their beneficiaries?
The first thing that comes to people's minds because it's the most talked and published about are Social Security, Medicare and the like. The "social safety nets". Is Social Security really an entitlement when it's been paid into for so many years through payroll taxes by the people who do end up receiving it? Is the individual retirement plan an entitlement? Is Medicare an entitlement when those on it mostly have been paying into it through payroll taxes and pay a monthly premium while a recipient? Is an individual health care plan an entitlement when premiums are paid by the individual and/or their employer?
This link http://www.thegreeneconomy.com/corporate-enti... contains a good share of what I believe are the entitlements that pass under the radar of the public in general. The ones that conveniently get left out of the discussion for public scrutiny.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#11
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Oh, and Batch, those companies refunds, and subsidies they get when there profits are so high there is no way they need them? That your income tax money.

Looks like it's your skin in their game...and gain.
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

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#12
Jan 23, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
Oh, and Batch, those companies refunds, and subsidies they get when there profits are so high there is no way they need them? That your income tax money.
Looks like it's your skin in their game...and gain.
And how many companies do you think are getting refunds these days SIB? When they are paying an effective rate of 39%+ they are getting refunds?? What you know about what companies pay isn't worthy of a reply from you.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#13
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>And how many companies do you think are getting refunds these days SIB? When they are paying an effective rate of 39%+ they are getting refunds?? What you know about what companies pay isn't worthy of a reply from you.
Apparently you missed the link I posted pointing it out.
The first one is easier to read.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/...

http://www.thegreeneconomy.com/corporate-enti...

You guys really need to stop this diversion of trying to lump small businesses in with the corporations that are making it that much harder on the small businesses.

I've never been a book keeper for a small business but I do know two of them VERY WELL. Plus I know probably more owners of small businesses than you want to know about. Plus the CPAs that go along with them.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#14
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Oh, and forgot this "Really". Remember I said way bad when, and a couple of times in between my FIL, was the Vice President of finance for one of the largest corporations in the GR area that did their business on a national and international scale?

SO, I know much more about the finance end of business than just the making the numbers line up. I know how they are manipulated to "line up".
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#15
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Here's another way to look at this.
First I need to say I am not an accountant and not a CPA.
But as I look at the numbers of the Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid payments for 2011 and the tax refunds, for the companies that paid no Federal Income taxes, got subsidies, and bailouts, just these 10 companies, amount to roughly $3.3trillion. That alone could pay the "social entitlements" for just short of 3 years at the 2011 costs for these three programs.

Remembering those "social entitlements" are separate from the Federal budgetary shortfall, as they are paid for programs through payroll taxes alone. Not income taxes. The reason for pointing this out, again, is the right wants to cut back on government spending by cutting spending on these programs. Creating the illusion of cutting back on Federal spending to take care of the Federal deficit. Again trying to take from Peter to pay Paul. Again opening the door to use these separate monies, the social entitlements, to pay down the deficit caused by the excessive spending and purposeful reduction in revenue/income taxes.

Trying to be clear I am talking about these "entitlement" programs that are paid for through payroll taxes. I'm not including whichever programs that may come out of income tax revenue. But the right still creates the talking points illusion the payroll tax programs spending are part and parcel to the deficit caused by the lack of income tax revenue.

To put the $3.3trillion into [it's] proper perspective; that $3.3trillion in corporate giveaways, these 10 companies truly didn't need to keep their business(es) alive, much less profitable, could have gone to pay down the deficit.$3.3trillion of it.
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

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#16
Jan 24, 2013
 

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And yet again we see the diversionary tactics of the progressives. The entire debt problem in this country should lie squarely on the shoulders of the businesses, large and small. After all, they get tax breaks and deductions and then have the temerity to use such breaks. Yes, they lobby for said tax breaks, however, before anyone gets confused that it is only the Republicans who ever write tax laws, do the research and see how many tax laws were written during the Clinton administration, just as an example. We could go back and look at the Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter administrations as well, just to name a few. Of course, the usual excuses will crop up. Whatever. The government "borrows" from the SS Trust Fund to cover the debt they expend. This current administration has spent more than all the Presidents prior to him and that was just the FIRST 4 years. This has been well documented by many sources. And the spending will continue unabated as evidenced by his inauguration speech. Once the country is bankrupt, in the progressive thought process, all will be fair.

Since: Oct 12

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#17
Jan 24, 2013
 
Sassy wrote:
I agree, SS and Medicare are not entitlements. We have paid into it for years and deserve our share back. Will we get it? Probably not, but those are not entiltements.
<quoted text>
The entitlements that need to be addressed are the generational ones like welfare, section 8 housing and the food stamp programs....many abused by those that refuse to work or contribute....
Sassy

Grand Rapids, MI

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#18
Jan 24, 2013
 

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I agree. I don't mind people needing a boost during hard times, but I really hate those that use it as a way of life.
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>The entitlements that need to be addressed are the generational ones like welfare, section 8 housing and the food stamp programs....many abused by those that refuse to work or contribute....
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#19
Jan 24, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
And yet again we see the diversionary tactics of the progressives. The entire debt problem in this country should lie squarely on the shoulders of the businesses, large and small. After all, they get tax breaks and deductions and then have the temerity to use such breaks. Yes, they lobby for said tax breaks, however, before anyone gets confused that it is only the Republicans who ever write tax laws, do the research and see how many tax laws were written during the Clinton administration, just as an example. We could go back and look at the Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter administrations as well, just to name a few. Of course, the usual excuses will crop up. Whatever. The government "borrows" from the SS Trust Fund to cover the debt they expend. This current administration has spent more than all the Presidents prior to him and that was just the FIRST 4 years. This has been well documented by many sources. And the spending will continue unabated as evidenced by his inauguration speech. Once the country is bankrupt, in the progressive thought process, all will be fair.
If you would have bothered to notice the ONLY mention of a political party I made was in the republicans wanting to cut back on benefits because "national spending has to be reduced". Tying them into the national debt when there is no honest correlation.

You're probably right that the spending will continue unabated...for gifts and payoffs to the wealthiest of companies and their owners.

Talking about this specifically you are adamantly defending crooks liars and thieves. It would seem the numbers would point that out. But then you don't know ANYTHING about basic "book keeping" so...
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#20
Jan 24, 2013
 

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Sassy wrote:
I agree, SS and Medicare are not entitlements. We have paid into it for years and deserve our share back. Will we get it? Probably not, but those are not entiltements.
<quoted text>
You will get it. It's law. The only way you will not is by listening to these schemers and swindlers into believing these programs are part of the national debt. Reagan did the same thing when he doubled the Social Security tax and then made it an IOU rather than the bond system when using those funds for other purposes.

I have not yet heard the right say we need to reform the entitlements system making it clear Social Security, Medicare etc. are not "entitlements". They ALWAYS ALWAYS say Social Security and Medicare when talking about reforming the entitlement system.

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