Seven million will lose insurance under Obama health law

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SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#23
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>What is really gonna piss off Grampa, is John McCain's deal to give all the confiscated guns to the Syrian rebels......that's gonna sting......
Shhhh, that was supposed to be a secret.
Chip

Madison, WI

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#24
Feb 8, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I would think the tax cuts you are trying to locate are the 99% of the Bush temporary tax cuts that Obama caved in on making them permanent, with Boehner prancing around thumping his chest as a victory over Obama, to avoid the "fiscal cliff".
And I do believe I addressed the "conspiracy theory" to Really farther up here.
Although I could entertain the idea of a conspiracy that the Teapublicans had this preplanned. Knowing full well the tie-in of expenditures versus their write-off/deduction and the end point where those write-offs are no longer "valuable". They are after-all very well advised by the corporate talking heads on how these things work and their consequences. Being made aware the "fines" outweigh the costs of providing health care coverage. But then the CBO already pointed that part out so it should be no big secret.
And to
..."seem to remember someone saying the following in 2009:
“no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what."
Ya, well that little dig is all over the internet on every site na-na-na-naing this. The Teapublicans are going to make good and sure that isn't going to happen, for no other reason than they just have NEVER liked Obama and any cost is worth the "victory". Because it will be the public that pays the price not them.
So... answer the question moron! All I see is just a bunch of generalization and trash, not that I would expect anything more from you.
Chip

Madison, WI

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#25
Feb 8, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya well Dr. Stephen Rose the principal at Rose Economic Consulting sure beats the hell out of Michael Greenstone MIT economics professor and director of the Brookings Institute Hamilton Project every time. Gotta wonder when MIT will ever come to the level of an economics consulting FIRM.
The rest of it I won't even bother with as it's just more jibber jabber opinion on why trickle down economics is the best thing since, well, everything else with one more dead link.
No surprise you would side with the government empoyee who couldn't hack it in the real world.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#27
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Chip wrote:
<quoted text>
So... answer the question moron! All I see is just a bunch of generalization and trash, not that I would expect anything more from you.
You can't even figure out where there's a question to be answered. That pretty much defines who the moron is.

Of course all you would see is generalization and trash.

Go take your bipolar meds. You'll feel better. Won't be any smarter but will feel better.
Chip

Madison, WI

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#29
Feb 8, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't even figure out where there's a question to be answered. That pretty much defines who the moron is.
Of course all you would see is generalization and trash.
Go take your bipolar meds. You'll feel better. Won't be any smarter but will feel better.
What laws, the content, who wrote them, you answered none of this
St Stephen

Grand Rapids, MI

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#30
Feb 8, 2013
 

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I still have the same health coverage as I did 10 years ago. My employer has no intention of cutting it off. If you work full time and your employer doesn't offer you coverage then you should quit and work for a company that values you as a human being and as a productive member of the enterprise. If they value a tax break more than they value your family's well being--and you continue to work there--then chances are you are a chump. A chump who is making my premiums go up by not having coverage.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#32
Feb 8, 2013
 
St Stephen wrote:
A chump who is making my premiums go up by not having coverage.
Wah, wah, wah...remember we told you this was going to happen. Man up and quit whining; you wanted this.
It won't take most people (or employers, for that matter) long to figure out that their penalty will be a lot cheaper than insurance premiums and, with no pre-existing clauses allowed any longer, many will simply sign up for a policy when they need something and drop it when they're done getting the care they want.
Seems progressive policies always wind up causing the exact opposite effect they were intended to...aside from the fact that Americans were flat out lied to and/or misled in the effort to garner support for this monstrosity we call Obamacare.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#33
Feb 8, 2013
 
Bob wrote:
They need to take away the guns first......
Grandpa might put up a fight when he has to report to the death camps!
You know, manboobie...I bet if you had asked the average German citizen in 1930 if they thought their government was capable or likely to murder over 6 million people, many of them German citizens, they would have had pretty much the same response all your progressive tards are here on Topix. Even today, there are those that deny it even happened despite the overwhemling evidence that it did.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#34
Feb 8, 2013
 

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Chip wrote:
<quoted text>
What laws, the content, who wrote them, you answered none of this
That you believe I'm to answer to these when the questions were never asked is in a universe in your mind alone.

And no, I will not be doing your "investigations" for you.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#37
Feb 8, 2013
 
Dr Stoner wrote:
under the new law, ObamaCare mandates, insurance companies will have free rein to pass on their increased costs to you in the form of:
•Higher premiums
•Higher co-pays
•Higher deductibles
There will be no specific price controls to keep the insurance industry in check. Meaning higher costs. If you think insurance costs are high now, just wait, you haven’t seen anything yet.
Pg. 72, lines 8-14 from Obamacare law
Yup...even the government's estimate of the lowest tier (bronze) plan for a family of 4 will be 20K per year. I don't know about you, but I know very few people with an extra 20K to spend on anything, let alone insurance premiums. Hello! Most people are uninsured because they can't afford the premiums. Please tell me how forcing them to purchase a product they can't afford now (and the price is increasing exponentially because now the insurance companies have a captive market) is going to make it more affordable to them? Obama hates the middle class and there's a a new recession (or possibly even a depression) in our very near future.

Since: Oct 12

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#42
Feb 9, 2013
 

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Dr Stoner wrote:
Another item I would be very concerned about. Obamacare will give the government direct access to your banks accounts to compel you to pay any out-of-pocket or premium costs electronically without your previous consent.
As outlined on page 59 lines 21-24 of the new law.
Will that be after or before, he takes all our guns and forces us into meeting the death panels?
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#43
Feb 9, 2013
 
Dr Stoner wrote:
Another item I would be very concerned about. Obamacare will give the government direct access to your banks accounts to compel you to pay any out-of-pocket or premium costs electronically without your previous consent.
As outlined on page 59 lines 21-24 of the new law.
I can see your point.......

Imagine having to pay for medical care instead of relying on free visits to the emergency room. What is this country coming to when a patriot can't force other people to pay for their free ride?
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

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#44
Feb 9, 2013
 

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Bob wrote:
Imagine having to pay for medical care instead of relying on free visits to the emergency room. What is this country coming to when a patriot can't force other people to pay for their free ride?
If that's really how you understand those provisions, you've lost all credibility on the subject.
People will still be going to the emergency rooms without coverage and getting care that all you patriot libs who just LOVED the idea of Obama care and think we should all pay until it makes us bleed, still get to pay for their care through increaesed premiums. When you're all complaining about how high your premiums are or how your employer decided their premiums were too high and cut you all loose to go fend for yourselves on the insurance exchanges, I'll be LMBO. Enjoy!
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#45
Feb 9, 2013
 

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vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
If that's really how you understand those provisions, you've lost all credibility on the subject.
People will still be going to the emergency rooms without coverage and getting care that all you patriot libs who just LOVED the idea of Obama care and think we should all pay until it makes us bleed, still get to pay for their care through increaesed premiums. When you're all complaining about how high your premiums are or how your employer decided their premiums were too high and cut you all loose to go fend for yourselves on the insurance exchanges, I'll be LMBO. Enjoy!
From everything you have said it would seem you've never had health insurance. Over the years, LONG before Obamacare came to be, I experienced regular premium increases, increased deductibles, increased co-pays and decreases in what treatments that would be covered by the private insurance carriers. And I can tell you I've "bled" plenty payments wise.

So no. From experience this notion you are putting forth has been for a very long time with the private carriers.

I could get into all the whys and wherefores again and you still wouldn't understand them.
St Stephen

Grand Rapids, MI

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#46
Feb 9, 2013
 

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Dr Stoner wrote:
<quoted text>
Here’s one part I don’t like. You like to talk about keeping your same insurance coverage under Obamacare, however, there will be a healthcare exchange created by the government. This will bring private insurance plans under government control. Any health insurance plan which does not completely rework itself to conform to these regulations will be dropped from the exchange and those insured will have to pick one of the plans in the exchange. To me that sounds like you may not be able to keep your insurance coverage if the government says it does not meet its regulations. Also, under the new law, ObamaCare mandates, insurance companies will have free rein to pass on their increased costs to you in the form of:
•Higher premiums
•Higher co-pays
•Higher deductibles
There will be no specific price controls to keep the insurance industry in check. Meaning higher costs. If you think insurance costs are high now, just wait, you haven’t seen anything yet.
Pg. 72, lines 8-14 from Obamacare law
Sounds like a lot of fear and Glenn Beck type of propaganda to me. Your opinions are nothing but your projection, or Glenn Becks or whoever. Facts are action was needed and your republican representatives decided to do nothing for fear of being labeled a socialist-loving-big-governmen t-nazi if they tried to work with Obama on getting this thing worked out. So instead of getting your influence and ideas involved they f'ed you and sat back and let Obama and the dems create this bill with the slim chance that a newly elected republican president would overturn it in a few years. Now it's too late. It's here and it's staying and you have no one to blame but your buddies in D.C.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#48
Feb 9, 2013
 

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St Stephen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like a lot of fear and Glenn Beck type of propaganda to me. Your opinions are nothing but your projection, or Glenn Becks or whoever. Facts are action was needed and your republican representatives decided to do nothing for fear of being labeled a socialist-loving-big-governmen t-nazi if they tried to work with Obama on getting this thing worked out. So instead of getting your influence and ideas involved they f'ed you and sat back and let Obama and the dems create this bill with the slim chance that a newly elected republican president would overturn it in a few years. Now it's too late. It's here and it's staying and you have no one to blame but your buddies in D.C.
"Facts are action was needed and your republican representatives decided to do nothing for fear of being labeled a socialist-loving-big-governmen t-nazi"
Precisely! MA Romneycare is the exact same as Obamacare. What Richard Nixon offered Teddy Kennedy was exactly the same as Obamacare. What the contemplating offering up as an alternative to Obamacare was the same as Obamacare. They were actually ticked off that Obama came up with it first.

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/healthcare/a/R...

"The Republicans have made the individual mandate the element most likely to undo the President’s health-care law. The irony is that the Democrats adopted it in the first place because they thought that it would help them secure conservative support. It had, after all, been at the heart of Republican health-care reforms for two decades.

The mandate made its political début in a 1989 Heritage Foundation brief titled “Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans,” as a counterpoint to the single-payer system and the employer mandate, which were favored in Democratic circles. In the brief, Stuart Butler, the foundation’s health-care expert, argued,“Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seat-belts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have liability insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement.” The mandate made its first legislative appearance in 1993, in the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act—the Republicans’ alternative to President Clinton’s health-reform bill—which was sponsored by John Chafee, of Rhode Island, and co-sponsored by eighteen Republicans, including Bob Dole, who was then the Senate Minority Leader."
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/06/25...

And why a mandate that all the people buy health insurance? It's forced income for the health insurance industry.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

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#49
Feb 9, 2013
 

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Hello Seen It Before;

Let’s keep this simple. Middle class wages have changed because the people who were in the middle class before aren’t the same ones who are in the middle class today. Your link talked about middle class wages from 40 years ago. How much did you make 40 years ago and how much today? Mine has significantly changed from 1973. Second part is the job. There are lots of “middle class” jobs today that didn’t exist 40 years ago. Most of the tech industry is one example. So all those wages went from $0 to a lot more. Second for those jobs that did exist, what would make them more valuable today then before? Wages don’t increase just because and those who think that a job (not a person in the job) should make more over time is a real idiot. 40 years ago a teachers job was a middle class job. Today, it is a middle class job. What has changed that would make it a higher income job?
You say our medical costs are out of control. I have probably spent $200 over the past 40 years in medical costs. I got an exam at 18 before going into the Navy. And then another when I turned 50. Which is driving up the cost of medical care, the medical industry or the number of people who are obese, addicts, victims of violence, smokers, etc? My mother started smoking at 13 and eventually died of cancer. Her medical bills were huge. Her fault or the industries? I grew up, lived and worked in CA where millions of illegals go to the emergency room for the flu because they have to be treated. Those costs exist and then get passed on to….? Why is that the hospitals or the industries fault?
Last point to show how stupid liberals are. The point of the article you posted about middle class wages said the solution was education. Ok, let’s go with that. You and I have middle class jobs. You go to college and get a degree. Now what happens? This is the cause and effect liberals and other idiots don’t get. You get a better, higher paying job. Which means you are no longer part of the middle class! That means that the middle class has shrunk (it was you and I, now just me) and the inequality has increased (you got more money). As Obama told the college student in the debate, in the liberal mind when you get a college education you should go work IN a factory. In my mind you should go build a factory and employ other people. But that would contribute to inequality so it’s better for the liberals if you work in the factory rather than manage or own it.
See, according to the liberals if people are moving up the income ladder, as I did since 1973 and you probably did too, that’s a bad thing. For the liberal it isn’t about people moving up, it is about jobs becoming more valuable for no reason other than their warped sense of fairness.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

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#50
Feb 9, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
"Facts are action was needed and your republican representatives decided to do nothing for fear of being labeled a socialist-loving-big-governmen t-nazi"
Precisely! MA Romneycare is the exact same as Obamacare. What Richard Nixon offered Teddy Kennedy was exactly the same as Obamacare. What the contemplating offering up as an alternative to Obamacare was the same as Obamacare. They were actually ticked off that Obama came up with it first.
http://uspolitics.about.com/od/healthcare/a/R...
"The Republicans have made the individual mandate the element most likely to undo the President’s health-care law. The irony is that the Democrats adopted it in the first place because they thought that it would help them secure conservative support. It had, after all, been at the heart of Republican health-care reforms for two decades.
The mandate made its political début in a 1989 Heritage Foundation brief titled “Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans,” as a counterpoint to the single-payer system and the employer mandate, which were favored in Democratic circles. In the brief, Stuart Butler, the foundation’s health-care expert, argued,“Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seat-belts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have liability insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement.” The mandate made its first legislative appearance in 1993, in the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act—the Republicans’ alternative to President Clinton’s health-reform bill—which was sponsored by John Chafee, of Rhode Island, and co-sponsored by eighteen Republicans, including Bob Dole, who was then the Senate Minority Leader."
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/06/25...
And why a mandate that all the people buy health insurance? It's forced income for the health insurance industry.
Just to clarify, millions of people didn't vote because in their mind they had a choice between Obama and Obama light, so don't act like Romney and Obama were significantly different. Different yes but not significantly so in those voters mind.

Second, Obamacare never came from the Heritage group. Nice Liberal fantasy to make it seem like it is a conservative idea. NOT.
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/02/06/dont-blam...

If you go to the Heritage web site and look at Health Care you'll find their postion against Obamacare. And it isn't about just one little point.

http://www.heritage.org/research/projects/the...
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#51
Feb 9, 2013
 

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FLBeaver wrote:
Hello Seen It Before;
Let’s keep this simple. Middle class wages have changed because the people who were in the middle class before aren’t the same ones who are in the middle class today. Your link talked about middle class wages from 40 years ago. How much did you make 40 years ago and how much today? Mine has significantly changed from 1973. Second part is the job. There are lots of “middle class” jobs today that didn’t exist 40 years ago. Most of the tech industry is one example. So all those wages went from $0 to a lot more. Second for those jobs that did exist, what would make them more valuable today then before? Wages don’t increase just because and those who think that a job (not a person in the job) should make more over time is a real idiot. 40 years ago a teachers job was a middle class job. Today, it is a middle class job. What has changed that would make it a higher income job?
You say our medical costs are out of control. I have probably spent $200 over the past 40 years in medical costs. I got an exam at 18 before going into the Navy. And then another when I turned 50. Which is driving up the cost of medical care, the medical industry or the number of people who are obese, addicts, victims of violence, smokers, etc? My mother started smoking at 13 and eventually died of cancer. Her medical bills were huge. Her fault or the industries? I grew up, lived and worked in CA where millions of illegals go to the emergency room for the flu because they have to be treated. Those costs exist and then get passed on to….? Why is that the hospitals or the industries fault?
Last point to show how stupid liberals are. The point of the article you posted about middle class wages said the solution was education. Ok, let’s go with that. You and I have middle class jobs. You go to college and get a degree. Now what happens? This is the cause and effect liberals and other idiots don’t get. You get a better, higher paying job. Which means you are no longer part of the middle class! That means that the middle class has shrunk (it was you and I, now just me) and the inequality has increased (you got more money). As Obama told the college student in the debate, in the liberal mind when you get a college education you should go work IN a factory. In my mind you should go build a factory and employ other people. But that would contribute to inequality so it’s better for the liberals if you work in the factory rather than manage or own it.
See, according to the liberals if people are moving up the income ladder, as I did since 1973 and you probably did too, that’s a bad thing. For the liberal it isn’t about people moving up, it is about jobs becoming more valuable for no reason other than their warped sense of fairness.
Yep, you kept it simple..ton.

Yet you believe you have the "authority" to determine/argue what someone else SHOULD make for doing the things for you you can not, or even are just not willing to do, for whatever reason you have, for yourself. Or don't you remember your saying "the market" gets to determine what others should make?

I get it. You believe you are smarter than the many economic researchers that that is their field of expertise. You should probably quit arguing it with me on it and concentrate arguing it with them. I'm sure they would be appreciative of you informing them of their errors. Keep me posted on how that works out for you.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

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#52
Feb 9, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, you kept it simple..ton.
Yet you believe you have the "authority" to determine/argue what someone else SHOULD make for doing the things for you you can not, or even are just not willing to do, for whatever reason you have, for yourself. Or don't you remember your saying "the market" gets to determine what others should make?
I get it. You believe you are smarter than the many economic researchers that that is their field of expertise. You should probably quit arguing it with me on it and concentrate arguing it with them. I'm sure they would be appreciative of you informing them of their errors. Keep me posted on how that works out for you.
You have me confused with a liberal/progressive like yourself. I don't think I have the "authority" to determine what someone else makes. That's you and your ilk who feel that it isn't "fair" that someone only makes $X because you say so. Can you show me an article written by the left that says it's a good thing that "middle class wages" have gone down because technology has made the jobs easier and thus requires a less educated, less experienced worker? It's the left that wants wage controls, unions, etc. that set wages because those that do so believe they are smarter than the 300,000,000 who are purchasing that work.

You are the one who feels that a certain position should make a certain wage because you say so, not me.

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