Seven million will lose insurance under Obama health law

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Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#364
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>You need to take the report in the full context..... You always miss the substance of the entire reporting......
Is that the substance that you don't like the idea and that allows you to cherry pick on sentence in the entire report?

Sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with more people being insured, more people getting preventive care, more students being educated to fill the demand for more high quality, high paying jobs.

The days of people going to the ER for free is going the same way as paying with farm products!
Really

Grandville, MI

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#365
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that the substance that you don't like the idea and that allows you to cherry pick on sentence in the entire report?
Sorry, but I don't see anything wrong with more people being insured, more people getting preventive care, more students being educated to fill the demand for more high quality, high paying jobs.
The days of people going to the ER for free is going the same way as paying with farm products!
You don't see anything wrong with high paying jobs? Who pays those wages again, Bob? Oh yeah, that would be those oh so evil businesses, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc. Again, the hypocrisy you reveal continues to grow with each and every Obama talking point you use from your daily BS email account.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#366
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>You don't see anything wrong with high paying jobs? Who pays those wages again, Bob? Oh yeah, that would be those oh so evil businesses, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc. Again, the hypocrisy you reveal continues to grow with each and every Obama talking point you use from your daily BS email account.
I'm afraid its your teabagging buddy that thinks we were better off when doctors were paid with chickens...... As compared to most of the anti-reform freaks, that think health care should be free at the local ER!
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#367
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>You don't see anything wrong with high paying jobs? Who pays those wages again, Bob? Oh yeah, that would be those oh so evil businesses, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc. Again, the hypocrisy you reveal continues to grow with each and every Obama talking point you use from your daily BS email account.
Who pays those wages? The people who work for those companies do.

Would you disagree that in all cases without the people working within the company there would be no company? Would you disagree that in a company making profits the company is making more than what they pay their employees? Would you disagree that when an employee is not performing "up to standard", contributing more to the company's bottom line than they are being paid, the employee would be let go?

By whatever management determination every employee has to be worth more than they are being paid for their labors.

So ya Really, who IS paying those wages?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#369
Mar 6, 2013
 

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These superficial "thinkers" are why this country is in as much trouble as it is. Totally lacking in the ability to comprehend what is more than just on the surface of what they want to believe.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Owosso, MI

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#371
Mar 6, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're believing it's the regulations and law suits that are the cause for physicians no longer taking chickens for payment at times?
You seem to miss the point that when a professional requires and takes something of real value, like money, for their services they have committed themselves to performing to the highest standards of the profession.
And you think the lawyers are the greedy ones? Doctors and especially hospitals are not usually slow to turn bills over to collection agencies when they don't get paid quickly.
And lets not forget that 62% of the individual bankruptcies involved medical bills. That even includes people who were insured at the time of treatment.
And they don't take chickens as payment any more.
Never mind the truth behind the green curtain.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Owosso, MI

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#372
Mar 6, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
These superficial "thinkers" are why this country is in as much trouble as it is. Totally lacking in the ability to comprehend what is more than just on the surface of what they want to believe.
Right.......... Hospitals have zero expenses and should be free to everyone...... You are no longer thinking....... Everyone has a right to a home next...... We tried that through CRA. Look at that now......
Really

Grandville, MI

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#373
Mar 6, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Who pays those wages? The people who work for those companies do.
Would you disagree that in all cases without the people working within the company there would be no company? Would you disagree that in a company making profits the company is making more than what they pay their employees? Would you disagree that when an employee is not performing "up to standard", contributing more to the company's bottom line than they are being paid, the employee would be let go?
By whatever management determination every employee has to be worth more than they are being paid for their labors.
So ya Really, who IS paying those wages?
How in the world did you live SIB? Did you refuse your salary from the company you worked for? Or did you call the management of said company stupid and ignorant for not realizing how much you were actually worth? For someone who spends so much of her life bitching about business, perhaps you should have owned your own business so you could continue to be hypocritical like your progessive friends? Why don't you run for office and then you can nationalize every single business in the U.S. and tell them what they will pay for their employees. One more question for you.....how high do you think the minimum wage should be?$30,$40,$50/hour?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#375
Mar 6, 2013
 
Really wrote:
<quoted text>How in the world did you live SIB? Did you refuse your salary from the company you worked for? Or did you call the management of said company stupid and ignorant for not realizing how much you were actually worth? For someone who spends so much of her life bitching about business, perhaps you should have owned your own business so you could continue to be hypocritical like your progessive friends? Why don't you run for office and then you can nationalize every single business in the U.S. and tell them what they will pay for their employees. One more question for you.....how high do you think the minimum wage should be?$30,$40,$50/hour?
I have lived by recognizing the realities. Not mired in the muck of believing only that which I want or believe to make me fell all safe and comfortable.

Again, you have no idea about my business experience. Just like everything else with you though, you only think you do. If I had stuck with the extent of knowledge about business that you have I would have never gotten anywhere.

Enjoy your trap. Its obvious you don't want to think and know what the executives think and know.
Really

Grandville, MI

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#376
Mar 7, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I have lived by recognizing the realities. Not mired in the muck of believing only that which I want or believe to make me fell all safe and comfortable.
Again, you have no idea about my business experience. Just like everything else with you though, you only think you do. If I had stuck with the extent of knowledge about business that you have I would have never gotten anywhere.
Enjoy your trap. Its obvious you don't want to think and know what the executives think and know.
Enjoy your angry bitter life. It's very obvious you would rather spend your days being angry at business for some perceived "slight" rather than learning the lesson of moving on and controlling the things you can and letting the rest go. I choose NOT to be bitter and angry every day of my life. Just as I choose life.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#377
Mar 7, 2013
 
Really wrote:
<quoted text>Enjoy your angry bitter life. It's very obvious you would rather spend your days being angry at business for some perceived "slight" rather than learning the lesson of moving on and controlling the things you can and letting the rest go. I choose NOT to be bitter and angry every day of my life. Just as I choose life.
One would never notice your choice to not be bitter and angry the way you demonize the left/progressives and unions for 'tearing this country asunder'.

And why it is you perceive recognizing truths and actualities are synonymous with anger and bitterness is perplexing.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plainwell, MI

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#378
Mar 7, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
<quoted text>Enjoy your angry bitter life. It's very obvious you would rather spend your days being angry at business for some perceived "slight" rather than learning the lesson of moving on and controlling the things you can and letting the rest go. I choose NOT to be bitter and angry every day of my life. Just as I choose life.
There you go ticking off the baby killers..... Harder to get around subjects because of Progressive Nonsense.....
Really

Grandville, MI

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#379
Mar 7, 2013
 

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SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
One would never notice your choice to not be bitter and angry the way you demonize the left/progressives and unions for 'tearing this country asunder'.
And why it is you perceive recognizing truths and actualities are synonymous with anger and bitterness is perplexing.
"Truth and actualities"? By whose standards? Yours and Obama's? First, Obama wouldn't recognize the truth if it walked up and slapped him into the middle of next week. Second, your truth and actualities are just your opinions and nothing more. So, in case you haven't figured it out yet, your opinion doesn't matter more than mine or anyone else's. You just think it does. Not my problem. And demonizing whom again? Just replying to your constant demonizing of the entire Republican party and the right in this country. You would be much happier, it appears, if it was a 1 party system, your beloved Dems. That's also known as a dictatorship..something I suspect Obama would love as well.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#380
Mar 7, 2013
 
Really wrote:
<quoted text>"Truth and actualities"? By whose standards? Yours and Obama's? First, Obama wouldn't recognize the truth if it walked up and slapped him into the middle of next week. Second, your truth and actualities are just your opinions and nothing more. So, in case you haven't figured it out yet, your opinion doesn't matter more than mine or anyone else's. You just think it does. Not my problem. And demonizing whom again? Just replying to your constant demonizing of the entire Republican party and the right in this country. You would be much happier, it appears, if it was a 1 party system, your beloved Dems. That's also known as a dictatorship..something I suspect Obama would love as well.
"You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts" - Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Opinions can be derived from facts. But opinion does not make fact.

Interesting as the Thomas Jefferson believed in a one party system, which would actually be a no party system and still the president and legislators would be voted into office. You might want to check into what the definition of a dictatorship is and what a republic is.

And we all know how you have never demonized the liberals/progressives/democrat s.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

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#381
Mar 8, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I have lived by recognizing the realities. Not mired in the muck of believing only that which I want or believe to make me fell all safe and comfortable.
Again, you have no idea about my business experience. Just like everything else with you though, you only think you do. If I had stuck with the extent of knowledge about business that you have I would have never gotten anywhere.
Enjoy your trap. Its obvious you don't want to think and know what the executives think and know.
When you said "Again, you have no idea about my business experience" you made a key point. Based not on your opinions but on your posts, you have none. When I and others discuss a topic we bring up facts (According to the IRS, most of those in the bottom 20% move out and into the top 20% during their lifetime) as well as personal experiences (At one point my income was less than 1/2 of the official poverty level, but I didn't stay there. I went from the bottom 1% to the top 10%"). We bring up personal experiences to demonstrate "been there, done that."

You on the other hand simply link your opinion to another opinion. When I posted links to the IRS site for the data you said it was too hard to find the data. That told me you've never really spent time looking at real data, you just take other people's word for it, as long as they agree with you.

You said "If I had stuck with the extent of knowledge about business that you have I would have never gotten anywhere" but based again, on your posts not your opinions, you have never gotten anywhere. You've never managed anyone much less run a business. You've never worked in the private sector. You've never served in the military. You've never worked with a budget beyond your household. You've never lived outside of Michigan. All in all, you've never gotten anywhere. Some of that may not be true, but you've never talked about any real experience nor do your opinions sound like they come from any real world experience.

You said "Its obvious you don't want to think and know what the executives think and know" but why would you have any insight into what executives think and know? I've been friends with, played golf with, worked with and talk to executives every day and have been for 20+ years. You've never even met one. Your "insight and experience" into their lives is based on what you've read from other people who have never worked in a business.

Again, according to your posts, just like the President you have zero experience in business. He has never worked in business and the one time he worked for a real paycheck, he hated it, it was very short, and he wasn't there long enough to learn anything. His actual knowledge and experience in anything outside of campaigning and making speeches is very limited.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#382
Mar 8, 2013
 
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
When you said "Again, you have no idea about my business experience" you made a key point. Based not on your opinions but on your posts, you have none. When I and others discuss a topic we bring up facts (According to the IRS, most of those in the bottom 20% move out and into the top 20% during their lifetime) as well as personal experiences (At one point my income was less than 1/2 of the official poverty level, but I didn't stay there. I went from the bottom 1% to the top 10%"). We bring up personal experiences to demonstrate "been there, done that."
You on the other hand simply link your opinion to another opinion. When I posted links to the IRS site for the data you said it was too hard to find the data. That told me you've never really spent time looking at real data, you just take other people's word for it, as long as they agree with you.
You said "If I had stuck with the extent of knowledge about business that you have I would have never gotten anywhere" but based again, on your posts not your opinions, you have never gotten anywhere. You've never managed anyone much less run a business. You've never worked in the private sector. You've never served in the military. You've never worked with a budget beyond your household. You've never lived outside of Michigan. All in all, you've never gotten anywhere. Some of that may not be true, but you've never talked about any real experience nor do your opinions sound like they come from any real world experience.
You said "Its obvious you don't want to think and know what the executives think and know" but why would you have any insight into what executives think and know? I've been friends with, played golf with, worked with and talk to executives every day and have been for 20+ years. You've never even met one. Your "insight and experience" into their lives is based on what you've read from other people who have never worked in a business.
Again, according to your posts, just like the President you have zero experience in business. He has never worked in business and the one time he worked for a real paycheck, he hated it, it was very short, and he wasn't there long enough to learn anything. His actual knowledge and experience in anything outside of campaigning and making speeches is very limited.
Believe what you need to believe to feel smarter.

I'll just put it this way. There are top level executive IN THE FAMILY. There are corporate attorneys IN THE FAMILY. There are business owners IN THE FAMILY. So the vast majority of what I say are the facts behind the facts. Not just from playing rounds of golf with people in business.

Just just what the hell does my never living outside of Michigan have to do with anything? Hobos have lived in more than one state. By your line of thinking that makes them smarter.

When I post links I post the ones that, at least for the larger part, are opinions based in facts. You and Really seen to think that opinions are never based in factual evidence. That may be the way you work but facts are what makes "opinions" valid. Something you don't seem to be able to grasp. It's my opinion of if there are two cars that collide head on at 70mph each there are going to be demolished cars and deaths. But I supposed because that's my opinion because I have never been in such a collision there is no fact there. Or you'll retort with because of airbags deaths aren't necessarily an absolute. Unable to grasp the concept that if there were survivors that can be outside the normal expected result.

Believe what you need to believe Beav. It goes back to because you know how to get into a car and operate it, or even just have someone else explain how to operate it, doesn't mean you know what causes it to go down the road. Because you know how to operate it isn't the entirety of how it works. You just think you have all the control.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

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#384
Mar 8, 2013
 
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Believe what you need to believe to feel smarter.
I'll just put it this way. There are top level executive IN THE FAMILY. There are corporate attorneys IN THE FAMILY. There are business owners IN THE FAMILY. So the vast majority of what I say are the facts behind the facts. Not just from playing rounds of golf with people in business.
Just just what the hell does my never living outside of Michigan have to do with anything? Hobos have lived in more than one state. By your line of thinking that makes them smarter.
When I post links I post the ones that, at least for the larger part, are opinions based in facts. You and Really seen to think that opinions are never based in factual evidence. That may be the way you work but facts are what makes "opinions" valid. Something you don't seem to be able to grasp. It's my opinion of if there are two cars that collide head on at 70mph each there are going to be demolished cars and deaths. But I supposed because that's my opinion because I have never been in such a collision there is no fact there. Or you'll retort with because of airbags deaths aren't necessarily an absolute. Unable to grasp the concept that if there were survivors that can be outside the normal expected result.
Believe what you need to believe Beav. It goes back to because you know how to get into a car and operate it, or even just have someone else explain how to operate it, doesn't mean you know what causes it to go down the road. Because you know how to operate it isn't the entirety of how it works. You just think you have all the control.
You are proving my point. I have attorneys, nurses, etc IN THE FAMILY, and yes, if you and I are talking about say..construction and you have a family member who is in that occupation, your hearsay information is better than my limited knowledge. However if I happened to have been in construction, then my experience would trump your "in the family" information. And if you had true facts to back up your claim, then your facts would trump my individual experience. If my personal experience was that I went from the bottom .05% of income to the top 10% but the facts were that most people in the bottom income group stayed there, then the facts would trump my experience. I use my experience to confirm facts. So both my experience and the facts say that those in the top income level will soon drop out and be replaced by new people. Same in the bottom. The "poor" don't stay poor nor do the "rich" stay rich.

When I mentioned price controls you went to Nixon, yet price controls are alive and well today in the US, but you had no idea that they existed. I grew up in So Cal and lived in Jersey among many other places, and I've found that people who have never lived outside of their area believe the whole world is just like home. Folks in NY believe everyone thinks like they do. Same with CA, TX etc. Is the hobo smarter than you or I? Based on the EQ (not IQ) they may be. They are certainly more knowledgeable.

You said you post links to opinions based on facts. Why not post to the facts? More importantly why not look at the facts yourself and come to your own conclusions? If you want to learn to to www.realclearpolitics.com They have articles on both sides. Read the articles, especially the comments.

I learned a long time ago that to win an argument you need to be able to effectivelty argue the other side. You can't but that's ok. Most liberals can't because the liberal argument isn't based on facts, it is based on a different philosophy. It is why liberals and conservatives will never agree because they have a very different belief in human nature and results versus process.

This started on heath care. Liberals start with "everyone should have inexpensive health care" so how do we make it happen. Cost is tertiary. C's say "what is the best HC we can afford for the most people? Huge difference in how they look at the issue.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#385
Mar 9, 2013
 
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
You are proving my point. I have attorneys, nurses, etc IN THE FAMILY, and yes, if you and I are talking about say..construction and you have a family member who is in that occupation, your hearsay information is better than my limited knowledge. However if I happened to have been in construction, then my experience would trump your "in the family" information. And if you had true facts to back up your claim, then your facts would trump my individual experience. If my personal experience was that I went from the bottom .05% of income to the top 10% but the facts were that most people in the bottom income group stayed there, then the facts would trump my experience. I use my experience to confirm facts. So both my experience and the facts say that those in the top income level will soon drop out and be replaced by new people. Same in the bottom. The "poor" don't stay poor nor do the "rich" stay rich.
When I mentioned price controls you went to Nixon, yet price controls are alive and well today in the US, but you had no idea that they existed. I grew up in So Cal and lived in Jersey among many other places, and I've found that people who have never lived outside of their area believe the whole world is just like home. Folks in NY believe everyone thinks like they do. Same with CA, TX etc. Is the hobo smarter than you or I? Based on the EQ (not IQ) they may be. They are certainly more knowledgeable.
You said you post links to opinions based on facts. Why not post to the facts? More importantly why not look at the facts yourself and come to your own conclusions? If you want to learn to to www.realclearpolitics.com They have articles on both sides. Read the articles, especially the comments.
I learned a long time ago that to win an argument you need to be able to effectivelty argue the other side. You can't but that's ok. Most liberals can't because the liberal argument isn't based on facts, it is based on a different philosophy. It is why liberals and conservatives will never agree because they have a very different belief in human nature and results versus process.
This started on heath care. Liberals start with "everyone should have inexpensive health care" so how do we make it happen. Cost is tertiary. C's say "what is the best HC we can afford for the most people? Huge difference in how they look at the issue.
Oh ya. At least thanks for bringing up the nurse. A direct in-law started out as a ER nurse locally and for the last 15 or more years has worked for a Fortune 50 corporation that's the biggest medical/pharmaceutical company in the country.

She used to explain away the corporate myth just like you do. Since being in the midst of how they actually operate we are now able to discuss these issues in a much less combative atmosphere. She now sees I haven't been talking out of just some radical conspiracy theory standpoint.

But just keep believing what you need to believe so that everyone else that doesn't see things the way you do can still be the idiot "liberals".
Really

Grandville, MI

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#386
Mar 9, 2013
 

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"But just keep believing what you need to believe so that everyone else that doesn't see things the way you do can still be the idiot "liberals"." A direct quote from SIB. What's the matter SIB? Don't like it when you get called the very name you call the other people who don't agree with you? Deal with it.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

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#387
Mar 9, 2013
 

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Really wrote:
"But just keep believing what you need to believe so that everyone else that doesn't see things the way you do can still be the idiot "liberals"." A direct quote from SIB. What's the matter SIB? Don't like it when you get called the very name you call the other people who don't agree with you? Deal with it.
When you don't call names then you have a place to be talking to me about it.

You can call me all the names that make you fell important. I'm sitting over here laughing because all you got is your misguided opinions.

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