Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#320 Mar 1, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
That you believe that crap is the scariest part. There is no good reason for the costs of medical increasing already. The medical industry is a highly controlled market. Just like if diamond supply wasn't so completely controlled by DeBeers they would become mostly worthless except for the most rare.
And there is no good cause for the price of health insurance going up already except it has such support from nonsensical explanations like you glean from the fear mongering anti Obamaists.
"Controlling the supply
The marketplace doesn't determine how many doctors the nation has, as it does for engineers, pilots and other professions. The number of doctors is a political decision, heavily influenced by doctors themselves.
Congress controls the supply of physicians by how much federal funding it provides for medical residencies — the graduate training required of all doctors."
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/20...
Sound like another form of government over spending to you?
"Bottom Line: One reason we might have a “health care crisis” due to rising medical costs, and the world’s highest physician salaries is that we turn away 57.3% of the applicants to medical schools. What we have is a form of a “medical cartel,: which significantly restricts the supply of physicians, and thereby gives its members monopoly power to charge above-market prices for their services.
In his classic book Capitalism and Freedom, Milton Friedman describes the American Medical Association (AMA) as the “strongest trade union in the United States” and documents the ways in which the AMA vigorously restricts competition. The Council on Medical Education and Hospitals of the AMA approves both medical schools and hospitals. By restricting the number of approved medical schools and the number of applicants to those schools, the AMA limits the supply of physicians. In the same way that OPEC was able to quadruple the price of oil in the 1970s by restricting output, the AMA has increased their fees by restricting the supply of physicians."
http://wallstreetpit.com/5769-the-medical-car...
You really don't know why medical costs are already going up? Seriously? Wow.

Quick example. I insure Bob who is healthy and based on actuarial tables will cost me $100,000 in medical costs. So I charge him $100/month for insurance. Now under the new law I have to insure Bill but he is going to cost me $1,000,000 so I would like to charge him $1,000/month but under the law I can't. So now Bob's cost goes up to cover Bill's future cost. New wrinkle, I expect that I'm going to get someone who signs up for insurance on Monday and begin costing me on Tuesday. So I have no time to get money from that person so now I have to charge Bob and Bill even more. Bob's costs go up to cover Bill and to cover the unnamed person who will cost me in the future. And I need to begin building up money now to pay for future outlays.

Basic math, which liberals don't like nor do they understand.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#321 Mar 1, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say I don't believe anything from the two people there. You do.
I said quite clearly it's not the system so much as it is the people working within the system. The people are the weakest or strongest links in a system. They are capable of determining to work stringently within it's boundaries or vary from them when necessary.
What a government system would solve is availability of the same level of health care to EVERYONE whereas the privatized system restricts the best levels of care to those able to afford it. Even at that those who do have insurance but can or can't afford [whatever] the charges over and above what insurance will pay.
Looking through history to when the hospitalization health care system was by law non-profit it wasn't as contentious as it is now that its based in profits.
Affordability has been the issue since national health care was first conceived in the 1800s. Although it has been a much larger issue since health care had been included in the GNP.
You need to make statements like "What a government system would solve is availability of the same level of health care to EVERYONE" Not even a high school student believes that.

What is going to be interesting, and something I haven't seen many people talking about is that the ones who are really going to get wealthy in all this are the lawyers. I was actually telling a kid last night that if they really wanted to get rich, assuming they had no strong moral beliefs, they should become a lawyer and just makes millions fileing lawsuits in the new health care industry.

States are looking at reducing the requirements needed for someone to give people check ups, so that RN's or others can fill in because of the lack of doctors. Imagine the lawsuits when someone with less knowledge than a doctor makes the wrong diagnosis. Or take a doctor that has a lot more patients and now only has 3 minutes to talk to a patient and so they make a misdiagnosis because they are rushed. The number of lawsuits and legal claims are going to go through the roof.

And since the D's and liberals like the lawyers and vote against torte reform, the future will be very profitable for the ambulance chasers. Heck, they won't even have to chase tha ambulance, just sit in the lobby and sign people up.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#322 Mar 3, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
You really don't know why medical costs are already going up? Seriously? Wow.
Quick example. I insure Bob who is healthy and based on actuarial tables will cost me $100,000 in medical costs. So I charge him $100/month for insurance. Now under the new law I have to insure Bill but he is going to cost me $1,000,000 so I would like to charge him $1,000/month but under the law I can't. So now Bob's cost goes up to cover Bill's future cost. New wrinkle, I expect that I'm going to get someone who signs up for insurance on Monday and begin costing me on Tuesday. So I have no time to get money from that person so now I have to charge Bob and Bill even more. Bob's costs go up to cover Bill and to cover the unnamed person who will cost me in the future. And I need to begin building up money now to pay for future outlays.
Basic math, which liberals don't like nor do they understand.
Noooo. What you just explained is why the cost of HEALTH INSURANCE goes up. NOT the reason medical costs increase.

Your presenting it as health care costs increase because health insurance costs increase. The only way that has any reason in it is health care providers increase their charges because there is a "deep pocket" (health insurance) available to pay the charges. Likely a more lucrative source for payment than from the patient(s).

Apparently you don't understand that insurance costs increase to keep pace with the increases of [cost] claims and to keep the profit margins.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Tiffin, OH

#323 Mar 3, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's what's wrong with you using articles like that one for your argument(s). It was not the [state run health] system that caused the issue. It's the people working within it.
Apparently you missed where the Federal Health Minister AND the State's Opposition spokesman stated it was unacceptable.
And also missed "In this case, staff have spoken regularly with the patient, however she has not raised a concern or complaint about her care".
Time will tell where the actual fault lies.
Be it a completely privatized system or a state or national system it all revolves around money now doesn't it. Be it there isn't enough money to run the system "properly" or the those who use the system don't have enough to pay for it. For you to believe this type of thing, and even worse doesn't and hasn't happened in completely privatized systems is delusional.
Yeah you are right..... I like the customer service level at a govt level... They care....... Private care blows cause you can't fire poor performance or did I get that turned around.......
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Tiffin, OH

#324 Mar 3, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Noooo. What you just explained is why the cost of HEALTH INSURANCE goes up. NOT the reason medical costs increase.
Your presenting it as health care costs increase because health insurance costs increase. The only way that has any reason in it is health care providers increase their charges because there is a "deep pocket" (health insurance) available to pay the charges. Likely a more lucrative source for payment than from the patient(s).
Apparently you don't understand that insurance costs increase to keep pace with the increases of [cost] claims and to keep the profit margins.
Now you are forgetting Malpractice Insurance Costs...... Doc's have to charge more because lawyers are looking to sue........ More tests are necessary to insure all due diligence is made in treatment...... Costs go up as a result....
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#325 Mar 3, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
You are once again confused. Only someone on heavy meds would believe that I celebrate how the government functions.
As I said before, if we eliminated all government services, the world would continue to spin and life would go on. It would certainly be different, but it would function effectively. OTOH, if we transferred all business functions to the government and eliminated profits and private enterprise, things would shut down very fast.
If I look around, their are very few times I've been screwed over by a business, even a big one. The fact that Gates makes a bunch of money has almost zero impact on my life or income. At best he has cost me a few cents over my lifetime. On the other hand, stupid, wastefull government services costs me thousands of dollars every year.
Oh, and if you want to get rid of the lobbyists, get rid of the government. The only way to truly get rid of vermin is to eliminate the source of the food. Otherwise you just change the type of vermin but it is still vermin feeding from the food trough.
Liberals want to increase the size of the trough and believe that they can make the vermin magically disappear. Again, ignoring reality and history.
Sure if we eliminated government altogether and the world would keep spinning. But then government has been around since recorded history. We could also eliminate business altogether and the world would keep spinning. But then business has also been around since recorded history.

But then both have come about and evolved from human necessity. If we are supposed to be a nation of laws and not of men what do you suppose the result would be when letting a sector that believes they should be free to do whatever they please and the "market" would just settle itself out, be? A constant recycling of chaos.

I have posted the proofs before that EVERY time conservatives have been in political power the size, scope, and yes spending, have ALWAYS increased. Conservatives have no flipping clue what it is they really want much less how to accomplish it. But they sure know who to point the finger at when their fumbling goes awry. They just want to be let free to bounce around the rubber rooms.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/46...

http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/kar...
Really

Grandville, MI

#326 Mar 3, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure if we eliminated government altogether and the world would keep spinning. But then government has been around since recorded history. We could also eliminate business altogether and the world would keep spinning. But then business has also been around since recorded history.
But then both have come about and evolved from human necessity. If we are supposed to be a nation of laws and not of men what do you suppose the result would be when letting a sector that believes they should be free to do whatever they please and the "market" would just settle itself out, be? A constant recycling of chaos.
I have posted the proofs before that EVERY time conservatives have been in political power the size, scope, and yes spending, have ALWAYS increased. Conservatives have no flipping clue what it is they really want much less how to accomplish it. But they sure know who to point the finger at when their fumbling goes awry. They just want to be let free to bounce around the rubber rooms.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/46...
http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/kar...
You really should post from something besides a blog since that is only someone's opinion that just happens to agree with your lopsided view of the world. However, if it makes you feel better, please continue.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Norwalk, OH

#327 Mar 3, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure if we eliminated government altogether and the world would keep spinning. But then government has been around since recorded history. We could also eliminate business altogether and the world would keep spinning. But then business has also been around since recorded history.
But then both have come about and evolved from human necessity. If we are supposed to be a nation of laws and not of men what do you suppose the result would be when letting a sector that believes they should be free to do whatever they please and the "market" would just settle itself out, be? A constant recycling of chaos.
I have posted the proofs before that EVERY time conservatives have been in political power the size, scope, and yes spending, have ALWAYS increased. Conservatives have no flipping clue what it is they really want much less how to accomplish it. But they sure know who to point the finger at when their fumbling goes awry. They just want to be let free to bounce around the rubber rooms.
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/46...
http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/kar...
Again, your first paragraph talks of history. Second paragraph though is one sided and misses the opportunity that our private sector provided in increasing the world's standard of living...... Progressives whine about success but there is no better place because we were a free nation...... Russia, former USSR Satellites, Spain, Italy, Greece, France, Cambodia, Viet Nam, North Korea, much of Central and South America, Africa, England, China, Middle East, all are pits........ except they have TV, Cars, Microwave, cell phones, commercial Airlines, etc. Stop your whining and enjoy the fruits of others labor....... Even the poor in this country have big screen, cars and other modern conveniences........ Over regulation kills the dreams we as a nation use to have......
Working stiff

Caledonia, MI

#328 Mar 3, 2013
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/03/ru... We are being ripped off, while Obama and his friends get rich.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#330 Mar 3, 2013
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Again, your first paragraph talks of history. Second paragraph though is one sided and misses the opportunity that our private sector provided in increasing the world's standard of living...... Progressives whine about success but there is no better place because we were a free nation...... Russia, former USSR Satellites, Spain, Italy, Greece, France, Cambodia, Viet Nam, North Korea, much of Central and South America, Africa, England, China, Middle East, all are pits........ except they have TV, Cars, Microwave, cell phones, commercial Airlines, etc. Stop your whining and enjoy the fruits of others labor....... Even the poor in this country have big screen, cars and other modern conveniences........ Over regulation kills the dreams we as a nation use to have......
Though we have had the best system from those you like to bring up as comparisons does not mean ours is perfect. Ours is just as corruptible only from different angles.

Try looking out past your cult perspective.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#331 Mar 3, 2013
And while you're so quick to point out which systems are the "pits" Batch you might want to take into consideration that much of the capitalistic profits are made from the use of Vietnam, Cambodia, South American, Chinese labor and Middle East oil. And lets not forget about African diamonds that are the token of wealthiness.

But that part of the "pits" equation is just peachy with you now isn't it. As long as the almighty dollar is served.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#332 Mar 3, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>You really should post from something besides a blog since that is only someone's opinion that just happens to agree with your lopsided view of the world. However, if it makes you feel better, please continue.
Because it comes from a "blog" you don't believe it. Because it comes from whatever source you don't agree with you don't believe it. Because it comes from someone's opinion you don't agree with you don't believe it. So what difference does it make, you're not going to believe it.

You must have had a very difficult time getting through school. Unless of course you just figured because you didn't already know it it must be the way it is.
Really

Grandville, MI

#333 Mar 4, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it comes from a "blog" you don't believe it. Because it comes from whatever source you don't agree with you don't believe it. Because it comes from someone's opinion you don't agree with you don't believe it. So what difference does it make, you're not going to believe it.
You must have had a very difficult time getting through school. Unless of course you just figured because you didn't already know it it must be the way it is.
Looking in the mirror again? Sounds just like you. Your arrogance is showing again.
Working stiff

Caledonia, MI

#334 Mar 4, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>Looking in the mirror again? Sounds just like you. Your arrogance is showing again.
She has no real life experience, she only knows what liberal anti American instructors have taught her. This is one of the real dangers our country is facing.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Tiffin, OH

#335 Mar 4, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
And while you're so quick to point out which systems are the "pits" Batch you might want to take into consideration that much of the capitalistic profits are made from the use of Vietnam, Cambodia, South American, Chinese labor and Middle East oil. And lets not forget about African diamonds that are the token of wealthiness.
But that part of the "pits" equation is just peachy with you now isn't it. As long as the almighty dollar is served.
Just as Corrupt? New millionares are created every year. Every year we lose some..... The Countries that I mentioned are worse as only the govt leaders get fed.... You are right today that the O administration and Congress are getting rich off of out backs but we get to see it and yell about it...... Where is the golf course the O is going to next. He loves spending 2 million of our money for vacation every time he goes on AF1......

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#336 Mar 4, 2013
7,000,000 will lose insurance it will actually be in the end 300,000,000 will lose insurance because the goal of BHO is the elimination of private insurance. That is the truth. All of us willingly or not will be put under the auspices of the Affordable Care Act and will lose choices in every aspect of our lives.

The tables will turn and everything you do act and say will be subject to the health care LAW!!!! because why?? well its the LAW silly and if don't obey the law then you are a criminal and that is the whole point of this to make more criminals. Our so called leaders are so ready to dump us in with the rest of the world so we can be subjects instead of free men and women.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#337 Mar 4, 2013
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>They are broke....... To put ACA up as a blanket cure all is a mistake..... The whack jobs are people who do not look at what a single payer program does to an entire country...... England comes to mind......
Still waiting for a link to proof of this....... If you forgot, its called the State of Massachusetts. You remember the place, where Romneycare was adopted.

Maybe you're confused because even though Obamacare was modeled directly after this law, even Romney didn't mention his accomplishments last year..... When he got his ass kicked!

Care to provide that proof, or has your ass been kicked enough?
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#338 Mar 4, 2013
Shoeless Eluder wrote:
7,000,000 will lose insurance it will actually be in the end 300,000,000 will lose insurance because the goal of BHO is the elimination of private insurance. That is the truth. All of us willingly or not will be put under the auspices of the Affordable Care Act and will lose choices in every aspect of our lives.
The tables will turn and everything you do act and say will be subject to the health care LAW!!!! because why?? well its the LAW silly and if don't obey the law then you are a criminal and that is the whole point of this to make more criminals. Our so called leaders are so ready to dump us in with the rest of the world so we can be subjects instead of free men and women.
Hence the reason why there are hundreds of thousands of new criminals in the State of Massachuetts.....
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Tiffin, OH

#339 Mar 4, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Still waiting for a link to proof of this....... If you forgot, its called the State of Massachusetts. You remember the place, where Romneycare was adopted.
Maybe you're confused because even though Obamacare was modeled directly after this law, even Romney didn't mention his accomplishments last year..... When he got his ass kicked!
Care to provide that proof, or has your ass been kicked enough?
Completely aware of Mass program, as I lived in Maine when it went through..... You should go and visit for a month......

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#340 Mar 4, 2013
"Now it's a monster and will not obey"

Just Wait And See

Like A Baby Godzilla this scheme called ACA will become a monster because of its vague wording and putting the secretary of HHS in charge, they will lose control of it because the rules will be impossible to follow or define and you will know I am right. Either you don't care or you want it to be so. Some people like chaos well your in for it get ready. When someone is turned away because they didn't follow the rules or were ignorant of them because they are impossible to know because its left to interpretation.

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