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Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#1 Sep 17, 2013
Let's start a discussion with everyone's favorite quote.....

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Heraldo

Hudsonville, MI

#2 Sep 17, 2013
Bob wrote:
Let's start a discussion with everyone's favorite quote.....
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Lets follow up that discussion with one of my favorite quotes:

Bob sucks!
IMTHENRAANDISUK

Grand Rapids, MI

#3 Sep 17, 2013
Imagine a secure facility, with armed guards, as the setting for a mass shooting? I thought all the gun nuts said as long as there are good guys with guns this would never happen? They want to arm our teachers, students and janitors and poor guns into our schools as if more guns is always the answer. I wonder what they are all thinking now that it seems one of the weapons used was pulled off an armed guard inside the facility?

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#4 Sep 17, 2013
The issue of a gun or guns in this case falls back on Security and background checks before giving someone the security clearance to even enter that facility.
He worked for a contractor. That contractor got his Security clearance from...you guessed it, another contractor. Our government has, over time, decided it's cheaper to contract out jobs like that in order to save money and benifits paid to a government employee. That's a problem our Congress has failed to deal with, not guns.
Then there's he lack of information because even though he had been arrested twice for gun related incidents, he was never prosecuted. That's a problem with the legal system, not guns.
He also had mental issues, some that developed after he received his security clearance. The fact that there is not a continuing, updated background monitoring check is a problem with the system, not guns.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#5 Sep 17, 2013
Also, the lack of proper Security at a government facility is sickening. The handgun he took from an officer onsite pales in disbelief as to how he was ever able to get 2 of his own guns onsite.

The security at the Naval Yard needs to be overhauled completely.
Rob

United States

#6 Sep 17, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
The issue of a gun or guns in this case falls back on Security and background checks before giving someone the security clearance to even enter that facility.
He worked for a contractor. That contractor got his Security clearance from...you guessed it, another contractor. Our government has, over time, decided it's cheaper to contract out jobs like that in order to save money and benifits paid to a government employee. That's a problem our Congress has failed to deal with, not guns.
Then there's he lack of information because even though he had been arrested twice for gun related incidents, he was never prosecuted. That's a problem with the legal system, not guns.
He also had mental issues, some that developed after he received his security clearance. The fact that there is not a continuing, updated background monitoring check is a problem with the system, not guns.
Excellent!!!!

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#7 Sep 17, 2013
Rob wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent!!!!
Thank You.
Have a nice day!!!
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#8 Sep 17, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
The issue of a gun or guns in this case falls back on Security and background checks before giving someone the security clearance to even enter that facility.
He worked for a contractor. That contractor got his Security clearance from...you guessed it, another contractor. Our government has, over time, decided it's cheaper to contract out jobs like that in order to save money and benifits paid to a government employee. That's a problem our Congress has failed to deal with, not guns.
Then there's he lack of information because even though he had been arrested twice for gun related incidents, he was never prosecuted. That's a problem with the legal system, not guns.
He also had mental issues, some that developed after he received his security clearance. The fact that there is not a continuing, updated background monitoring check is a problem with the system, not guns.
All relatively good points, but the title of the thread doesn't mention guns. The quote might mention bearing arms, but it also says something about "THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE".

Does this mean that no matter what the person does, or how they act, that they still maintain that right?

When that person shoots a contractor's vehicle because he was making too much noise, and when that same person tells the police that he "blacked out" and couldn't even remember shooting..... Does he still have those rights?

When a person is being treated for mental illnesses, and claims that he hears voices, should he still have the right to bear arms?

If all those things were true, should he still be allowed to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon?

Agreed Mr. Wiggles, this has nothing to do with.... THE GUN.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#9 Sep 17, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
Also, the lack of proper Security at a government facility is sickening. The handgun he took from an officer onsite pales in disbelief as to how he was ever able to get 2 of his own guns onsite.
The security at the Naval Yard needs to be overhauled completely.
Any bets that the voices from the pro-gun lobby will argue that there weren't enough guns?
IMTHENRAANDISUK

Grand Rapids, MI

#10 Sep 17, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
Then there's he lack of information because even though he had been arrested twice for gun related incidents, he was never prosecuted. That's a problem with the legal system, not guns.
It's the gun lobby that makes damn sure people like this are able to keep and bear arms. So indirectly, it is a problem with guns. I'll agree that no single gun is dangerous while in the hands of the right person, the problem is that any regulation or any restriction is compared with spitting on the constitution by the gun-nut lobby.
IMTHENRAANDISUK

Grand Rapids, MI

#11 Sep 17, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
He also had mental issues, some that developed after he received his security clearance. The fact that there is not a continuing, updated background monitoring check is a problem with the system, not guns.
Not the system itself, the gun lobby which has too much power over the system. Just months ago, the gun lobby and it's millions of idiots (and millions of dollars) strong armed the system and kept an expansion of back-ground checks from clearing congress.
free thinker

Farmington, MI

#12 Sep 17, 2013
IMTHENRAANDISUK wrote:
Imagine a secure facility, with armed guards, as the setting for a mass shooting? I thought all the gun nuts said as long as there are good guys with guns this would never happen?
Apparently the 'good guys with guns' and the armed guards on the base weren't very well trained or the shooter was part Rambo because the shooter was able to disarm two of them and use their guns in the shooting. So what's your answer to that, smart guy? You seem to be making the case for allowing criminals free reign while disarming everyone else. Civilians, BTW, are not allowed to carry concealed on a military base so once he got past the guards, the civilians he shot were helpless targets.
IMTHENRAANDISUK

Grand Rapids, MI

#13 Sep 17, 2013
free thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently the 'good guys with guns' and the armed guards on the base weren't very well trained or the shooter was part Rambo because the shooter was able to disarm two of them and use their guns in the shooting. So what's your answer to that, smart guy? You seem to be making the case for allowing criminals free reign while disarming everyone else. Civilians, BTW, are not allowed to carry concealed on a military base so once he got past the guards, the civilians he shot were helpless targets.
My point was this was a heavily armed, very secure base and yet 12 people were killed. Every time there is a school shooting the gun-nuts want us to arm teachers and dump guns into schools by the truckload. This case shows us that won't work and putting more guns into schools only means there will be more weapons to shoot kids with. Got it smart guy?
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#14 Sep 17, 2013
This incident ought to cause great concern to all you gun toting, knuckle dragging, NRA loving, pin headed T-baggers.

This guy LEGALLY possessed guns AND he was receiving therapy for possible MENTAL ILLNESS or the mental issues. In other words he was just like YOU HAHAHHAHA!

So anyone out there with mental issues who still think you have a constitutionally guaranteed right to own and possess any kind of firearm you feel like had better barricade yourselves in your bunkers because your little NRA isn't going to stop the regulation that's LONG OVERDUE is certainly coming.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#15 Sep 17, 2013
IMTHENRAANDISUK wrote:
<quoted text>
My point was this was a heavily armed, very secure base and yet 12 people were killed. Every time there is a school shooting the gun-nuts want us to arm teachers and dump guns into schools by the truckload. This case shows us that won't work and putting more guns into schools only means there will be more weapons to shoot kids with. Got it smart guy?
You are partly correct. There is/was a huge flaw in the Security system that allowed this to happen. Once he was able to get a loaded gun in the building everything changes.
One must ask why he was able to do so. The answer is he had a level of Security clearance that he should not have been able to obtain. That is a flaw that our government has allowed to happen and continue to turn a blind eye to the problem.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Portage, MI

#16 Sep 17, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Any bets that the voices from the pro-gun lobby will argue that there weren't enough guns?
Do you know how much we spend in weapons training on our military....... If they are able to armor up at the beginning of their work day this guy would not have gotten that far.... You are in need of mental health help..... Once again a gun free zone got people killed..... You nut job.....

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#17 Sep 17, 2013
pipedream wrote:
This incident ought to cause great concern to all you gun toting, knuckle dragging, NRA loving, pin headed T-baggers.
This guy LEGALLY possessed guns AND he was receiving therapy for possible MENTAL ILLNESS or the mental issues. In other words he was just like YOU HAHAHHAHA!
So anyone out there with mental issues who still think you have a constitutionally guaranteed right to own and possess any kind of firearm you feel like had better barricade yourselves in your bunkers because your little NRA isn't going to stop the regulation that's LONG OVERDUE is certainly coming.
Why do you want a police state?? So lets see there are hundreds of millions of firearms in this country and hundreds of millions of people, I don't know how many firearms have been used in these terrible incidents but I would bet its less than a hundred and the number of people using them even less. So in your opinion millions of people who own firearms and are no threat to anyone should be punished for the acts of a few maniacs with them, totally illogical. You do know that according to a lot of politicians and so called experts like Colbert, Stewart, Mahar everyone has mental issues. My question would be who decides? Of course now with the advent of socialized healthcare we will probably all be compelled to undergo some type of analysis by government psychotic therapists.

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#18 Sep 17, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Any bets that the voices from the pro-gun lobby will argue that there weren't enough guns?
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
George Washington

Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.
George Washington

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#19 Sep 17, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Any bets that the voices from the pro-gun lobby will argue that there weren't enough guns?
The above post proves that if there are enough guns a coward will not attempt to commit atrocities like have happened over the past few years.
Really

Wyoming, MI

#20 Sep 17, 2013
pipedream wrote:
This incident ought to cause great concern to all you gun toting, knuckle dragging, NRA loving, pin headed T-baggers.
This guy LEGALLY possessed guns AND he was receiving therapy for possible MENTAL ILLNESS or the mental issues. In other words he was just like YOU HAHAHHAHA!
So anyone out there with mental issues who still think you have a constitutionally guaranteed right to own and possess any kind of firearm you feel like had better barricade yourselves in your bunkers because your little NRA isn't going to stop the regulation that's LONG OVERDUE is certainly coming.
Perhaps if you and others were not so anxious to blame everyone BUT the perpetrator of the crime, these things would not happen. This person had issues, most definitely, but he passed the INITIAL background check and they apparently did not do another
one. Perhaps if you and others were brave enough to come out from behind your monitors and see the real world, you would understand. We won't hold our breath though for that to happen.

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