Seenitbefore

Jenison, MI

#23 Aug 10, 2009
Oh, be sure watch the video and listen to Gingrich's response.
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/09/gingri...

“Don't touch my junk man!”

Since: Nov 07

Middle of the Mitten, Michigan

#24 Aug 10, 2009
Seenitbefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya, lets pay attention to the actual information rather than the conjecture on what does not exist.
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/09/gingri...
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article...
SIB-Take a look at the death bell curve put together by a health care adviser to Obama. I think it was Rahm's brother that created it, or at least published it.

I do feel the whole death panel, euthanasia thing may be a little blown out of proportion at this point in time. No, there isn't anything that I've seen in the bill that indicates this will be a practice starting right out of the gate.

I believe though that we need to be aware with huge social programs such as this cost cutting measures may be needed down the road. If these cost cutting measures are implemented issues like these could arise. So it's likely best now to close any sort of loophole that could be inserted into the bill allowing this. Of course reading the bill would ensure that things like this wouldn't be in there unexpectedly-but who am I to say they should read the bill...

I do not believe it does the opposition any good to try and throw out these types of arguments though, all it does is make them look loony to most on the "outside."

(PS: Does it change the tone of my argument if I state I believe voluntary euthanasia-or assisted suicide should be offered? Or perhaps I'm just going to open up a can of worms I don't want to open...lol)

“Tod nach links!”

Since: Aug 08

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue

#25 Aug 10, 2009
I can think of a few people I'd like to see on the receiving end of a death panel. I can't name names though.
Seenitbefore

Jenison, MI

#26 Aug 10, 2009
Ms Angie wrote:
<quoted text>
SIB-Take a look at the death bell curve put together by a health care adviser to Obama. I think it was Rahm's brother that created it, or at least published it.
I do feel the whole death panel, euthanasia thing may be a little blown out of proportion at this point in time. No, there isn't anything that I've seen in the bill that indicates this will be a practice starting right out of the gate.
I believe though that we need to be aware with huge social programs such as this cost cutting measures may be needed down the road. If these cost cutting measures are implemented issues like these could arise. So it's likely best now to close any sort of loophole that could be inserted into the bill allowing this. Of course reading the bill would ensure that things like this wouldn't be in there unexpectedly-but who am I to say they should read the bill...
I do not believe it does the opposition any good to try and throw out these types of arguments though, all it does is make them look loony to most on the "outside."
(PS: Does it change the tone of my argument if I state I believe voluntary euthanasia-or assisted suicide should be offered? Or perhaps I'm just going to open up a can of worms I don't want to open...lol)
We have basically a death panel with the private providers now. Without the funds available the best care is just not available. We have a pay or die system. And the care those have today just may not be there tomorrow because of rate increases and/or etc.

I remember assisted suicide being an issue LONG before anyone thought to lie about it being a part of this national health care proposal. So could it come up in the future? Yup, it's come up in the past....without any national health care.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#27 Aug 10, 2009
Seenitbefore wrote:
<quoted text>
We have basically a death panel with the private providers now. Without the funds available the best care is just not available. We have a pay or die system. And the care those have today just may not be there tomorrow because of rate increases and/or etc.
I remember assisted suicide being an issue LONG before anyone thought to lie about it being a part of this national health care proposal. So could it come up in the future? Yup, it's come up in the past....without any national health care.
Ya know you just keep flinging the crap and it's getting real old. There is NO citizen of this nation that dies because they cannot pay for their healthcare. The hospitals take them in and treat them the same as they do everyone else. Do those who have insurance pick up some of the slack, you bet. Ever been to the ER and told them you don't have insurance SIB? I highly doubt it since the elitists are the once who spend their time crying like this. I have been to the ER and told them I don't have insurance. They say ok and we work out payment arrangements. That is how it is done...want to know how it works when you are admitted and don't have insurance? The admitting office sends a social worker up to sign you up for Medicaid so your bills are paid. Now, that is not fearmongering or BS, that is actual life experience. Been without health insurance for 3 years now, get my Rx at Walmart for $4 for 30 days and $10 for 90 days. Get antibiotics at Meijer for free when needed. See, for the elitists, that isn't good enough. For those of us who like to stand on our own two feet and live in the real world, it works just fine.
So, stuff your assisted suicide cattiness in the dumpster where it belongs. You and Pete and Arctic and Becky and "Jackson" can call it fear mongering all you want, but what this Congress wants to do and is proposing will bankrupt this nation and if you would be totally honest, you would admit that you know that. However, I have learned that honesty is not the strong suit of the elitists and the left in this country.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

United States

#28 Aug 10, 2009
Govt Health care is evil.......

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#29 Aug 10, 2009
Bubbly4now wrote:
<quoted text>
Guess what Shoeless,
The Palin family is "entitled" to free National Healthcare. Isn't that special?
http://washingtonindependent.com/13924/palin-...
I don't go about my life wondering about Sarah Palin or what she has or doesn't have. I am not envious nor do I go about my life thinking about whats fair and not fair. I am an individual who takes care of his own business. If I have a problem with my health, my finances, or anything else I take care of it. I think if more people just took care of there own business our country would be in a lot better shape. There are to many hands out now saying gimme gimme gimme. Well I am not nor will I ever be one of those.
Seenitbefore

Jenison, MI

#30 Aug 10, 2009
sassysandy050 wrote:
<quoted text>Ya know you just keep flinging the crap and it's getting real old. There is NO citizen of this nation that dies because they cannot pay for their healthcare. The hospitals take them in and treat them the same as they do everyone else. Do those who have insurance pick up some of the slack, you bet. Ever been to the ER and told them you don't have insurance SIB? I highly doubt it since the elitists are the once who spend their time crying like this. I have been to the ER and told them I don't have insurance. They say ok and we work out payment arrangements. That is how it is done...want to know how it works when you are admitted and don't have insurance? The admitting office sends a social worker up to sign you up for Medicaid so your bills are paid. Now, that is not fearmongering or BS, that is actual life experience. Been without health insurance for 3 years now, get my Rx at Walmart for $4 for 30 days and $10 for 90 days. Get antibiotics at Meijer for free when needed. See, for the elitists, that isn't good enough. For those of us who like to stand on our own two feet and live in the real world, it works just fine.
So, stuff your assisted suicide cattiness in the dumpster where it belongs. You and Pete and Arctic and Becky and "Jackson" can call it fear mongering all you want, but what this Congress wants to do and is proposing will bankrupt this nation and if you would be totally honest, you would admit that you know that. However, I have learned that honesty is not the strong suit of the elitists and the left in this country.
"However, I have learned that honesty is not the strong suit of the elitists and the left in this country."

You mean like Sarah Palin outright lying about the death panels. Yes lying because she should know better.

As for the rest of your rant. I'd attempt to respond if I had any notion it could be comprehended.

Since: Sep 07

Grand Rapids, MI

#31 Aug 10, 2009
GR Paul wrote:
<quoted text>
Can someone, other than this idiot, PLEASE explain to me what taxes were actually lowered under Obama?
Certainly.

Arctic only thinks his taxes are lower under "The One". What he mistakes as a tax cut, is actually a change in his with-holdings every week as set forth by "The One's" stimulas package. His with-holdings were changed so he gets a few extra dollars a week...but his tax rate did not change. He will be taxed on that extra take home pay in the form of a much lower tax return next year.

And lets not forget that his taxes will go up next year, along with the rest of us, when the Bush tax cuts of 2001 expire. Even though Arctic, GRPete, and others will insist that they never got this tax cut...that it was only for the eeeeevil rich. I got that tax cut, and I'm not rich...

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#32 Aug 10, 2009
Seenitbefore wrote:
<quoted text>
"However, I have learned that honesty is not the strong suit of the elitists and the left in this country."
You mean like Sarah Palin outright lying about the death panels. Yes lying because she should know better.
As for the rest of your rant. I'd attempt to respond if I had any notion it could be comprehended.
So, when I call you on flinging crap around like it is the truth, it is a rant, but when you spin us around in so many circles it's knowledge?? You are a tool as well, SIB. That "rant" as you call it was directed at your out and out lie about people dying because they can't afford healthcare. Per usual with you and the rest of the left, if it contains information and facts, you ignore it and slam the parts you can focus on. Try some Concerta, will you, it works wonders for my Grandson and has improved his focus greatly! Of course, my information is a rant, but that's because you can't dispute it. Have a nice night.

Since: Jul 09

SW Michigan

#33 Aug 10, 2009
sassysandy050 wrote:
<quoted text>Ya know you just keep flinging the crap and it's getting real old. There is NO citizen of this nation that dies because they cannot pay for their healthcare. The hospitals take them in and treat them the same as they do everyone else. Do those who have insurance pick up some of the slack, you bet. Ever been to the ER and told them you don't have insurance SIB? I highly doubt it since the elitists are the once who spend their time crying like this. I have been to the ER and told them I don't have insurance. They say ok and we work out payment arrangements. That is how it is done...want to know how it works when you are admitted and don't have insurance? The admitting office sends a social worker up to sign you up for Medicaid so your bills are paid. Now, that is not fearmongering or BS, that is actual life experience. Been without health insurance for 3 years now, get my Rx at Walmart for $4 for 30 days and $10 for 90 days. Get antibiotics at Meijer for free when needed. See, for the elitists, that isn't good enough. For those of us who like to stand on our own two feet and live in the real world, it works just fine.
So, stuff your assisted suicide cattiness in the dumpster where it belongs. You and Pete and Arctic and Becky and "Jackson" can call it fear mongering all you want, but what this Congress wants to do and is proposing will bankrupt this nation and if you would be totally honest, you would admit that you know that. However, I have learned that honesty is not the strong suit of the elitists and the left in this country.
If you are low-income, don't qualify for Medicaid and have a ear infection, severe headache or pain in back/shoulder - what do you do? Do you take off work and sit in a clinic? IF --there is a clinic in your town and you have a way there. No, most of the time - you will try to wait it out- and hope it gets better. What if the pain in your shoulder - is really a heart attack? This happens all the time. You can't get an appointment with a Doctor - if you don't have the money up front.

People are not getting the care they need, and end up in the ER or having to be hospitalized because they have untreated diabetes. Even if they go to Walmart for their $4 Rxs - their MD will ask them at least once a year to get their blood tests and a physical - before they can get another refill on a new prescription.

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#34 Aug 10, 2009
Bubbly4now wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are low-income, don't qualify for Medicaid and have a ear infection, severe headache or pain in back/shoulder - what do you do? Do you take off work and sit in a clinic? IF --there is a clinic in your town and you have a way there. No, most of the time - you will try to wait it out- and hope it gets better. What if the pain in your shoulder - is really a heart attack? This happens all the time. You can't get an appointment with a Doctor - if you don't have the money up front.
People are not getting the care they need, and end up in the ER or having to be hospitalized because they have untreated diabetes. Even if they go to Walmart for their $4 Rxs - their MD will ask them at least once a year to get their blood tests and a physical - before they can get another refill on a new prescription.
I have to admit I am pretty healthy and lucky that I don't have to take any medications for anything and rarely get sick. I have the occasional kidney stone.

No one is against helping people but the answer is not the thing that BHO and the democrats are pushing. Costs need to lowered yes. Decisions should only be between the doctor and patient. Those who need catastrophic care should get it.

What really needs to happen is we need jobs we need to bring back the steel industry, the textile and clothing industry, we need to grow our own food not import vegetables and fruits and meats from other countries. More people working more tax revenue going into government so there is money to pay for certain things. But the environmentalists wont have it. Making things is dirty business its a fact of life.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

#36 Aug 11, 2009
Seenitbefore wrote:
<quoted text>
"However, I have learned that honesty is not the strong suit of the elitists and the left in this country."
You mean like Sarah Palin outright lying about the death panels. Yes lying because she should know better.
As for the rest of your rant. I'd attempt to respond if I had any notion it could be comprehended.
Current proposed legislation allows for the mechanisms to be established to allow such a panel to evolve over time...... We all know about the salami effect.....

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#37 Aug 11, 2009
Bubbly4now wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are low-income, don't qualify for Medicaid and have a ear infection, severe headache or pain in back/shoulder - what do you do? Do you take off work and sit in a clinic? IF --there is a clinic in your town and you have a way there. No, most of the time - you will try to wait it out- and hope it gets better. What if the pain in your shoulder - is really a heart attack? This happens all the time. You can't get an appointment with a Doctor - if you don't have the money up front.
People are not getting the care they need, and end up in the ER or having to be hospitalized because they have untreated diabetes. Even if they go to Walmart for their $4 Rxs - their MD will ask them at least once a year to get their blood tests and a physical - before they can get another refill on a new prescription.
And again, if they don't have insurance, Social Workers help apply for Medicaid. For goodness sake, Bubbly, do you READ anything but the Enquirer and Democratic websites??? As I said before, I have several (meaning more than 1 or 2) friends who are social workers and we discuss this all the time! Yes, the system needs to be fixed, but it does not need to be blown up and started completely over to the advantage of Congress and the disadvantage of the people! Please, please, please, just one of you leftists answer one question and quit playing dodge the question....if this plan is so all fired wonderful, why are Congress, Senators, President and the Unions exempted from it????? Answer the question please!!!!
Go Blue

West Palm Beach, FL

#38 Aug 11, 2009
Excellant, this is the kind of clueless rhetoric that gets Obama his second term....
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

#39 Aug 11, 2009
sassysandy050 wrote:
<quoted text>And again, if they don't have insurance, Social Workers help apply for Medicaid. For goodness sake, Bubbly, do you READ anything but the Enquirer and Democratic websites??? As I said before, I have several (meaning more than 1 or 2) friends who are social workers and we discuss this all the time! Yes, the system needs to be fixed, but it does not need to be blown up and started completely over to the advantage of Congress and the disadvantage of the people! Please, please, please, just one of you leftists answer one question and quit playing dodge the question....if this plan is so all fired wonderful, why are Congress, Senators, President and the Unions exempted from it????? Answer the question please!!!!
Bubbles will never answer as they have too much emotion invested in their position to ever admit they are on the wrong side of the issue. How else can you explain the fact that 1/7th of the economy is about to be ran by people with no experience running anything.
Seenitbefore

Jenison, MI

#40 Aug 11, 2009
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Current proposed legislation allows for the mechanisms to be established to allow such a panel to evolve over time...... We all know about the salami effect.....
Being your conjecture for mechanisms to be established is not them being established in the proposed Bill as the fear mongers have been asserting. No, not asserting, accusing.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

#41 Aug 11, 2009
Seenitbefore wrote:
<quoted text>
Being your conjecture for mechanisms to be established is not them being established in the proposed Bill as the fear mongers have been asserting. No, not asserting, accusing.
Just pointing out the direction Obama wants to go..... He stated to SEIU that he wants single payer and realizes it will take 15 to 20 years........
Seenitbefore

Jenison, MI

#42 Aug 11, 2009
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Just pointing out the direction Obama wants to go..... He stated to SEIU that he wants single payer and realizes it will take 15 to 20 years........
Do you even understand single payer? Single payer IS NOT single provider. The physicians, hospitals, etc. would not be the providers of the health care.
"Single-payer health care is a term used in the United States to describe the payment of doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers from a single fund, which is typically public and non-profit. It differs from, and replaces, typical private health insurance where, through pricing and other measures taken by the insurer, the level of risks carried by multiple insurance pools as well as the coverage can vary and the pricing has to be varied according to the contribution of risk added to the pool. It is often mentioned as one way to deliver near-universal or universal health care. The administrator of the fund could be the government but it could also be a publicly owned agency regulated by law."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_hea...
Seenitbefore

Jenison, MI

#43 Aug 11, 2009
Before bashing it because of the source read it.
"At a long-awaited House subcommittee hearing on Wednesday, health care professionals made it clear that they believe a single-payer system to be the best and perhaps only workable option for health care reform."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/10/heal...

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