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Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

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#1
Jan 18, 2010
 

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Come in through the front door....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100117/ap_on_re_...
que poseemos que

Knoxville, TN

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#2
Jan 18, 2010
 

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vamos a usted ya sus propios puestos de trabajo
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#3
Jan 18, 2010
 

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They would use the front door if it wasn't for your right wing wackos having blocked it. Only in the warped mind can a person read the attached story and find the word illegal in it. Unless of course it is Sheriff Joe who continues to try to enforce laws for which he has no authroity.

It is unfortunate that people in the countries to the south of us have to resort to any means possible to come to this country. All the while our country sends its manufacturing jobs to those countries where corporate bigwigs treat workers there no better than slaves.

A progressive would want to see these workers being paid a livable wage equal to what is paid in this country. This would provide these people with the ability to purchase the goods they are making, and giving us a stronger neighbor where its residents didn't feel the need to escape poverty.

And now its time for all of you so called christian protectionists to explain why its better to build a fence along our southern border. And maybe explain the difference between these people and the residents of a country to the north of us that doesn't need such a fence.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

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#4
Jan 18, 2010
 

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Bob wrote:
They would use the front door if it wasn't for your right wing wackos having blocked it. Only in the warped mind can a person read the attached story and find the word illegal in it. Unless of course it is Sheriff Joe who continues to try to enforce laws for which he has no authroity.
It is unfortunate that people in the countries to the south of us have to resort to any means possible to come to this country. All the while our country sends its manufacturing jobs to those countries where corporate bigwigs treat workers there no better than slaves.
A progressive would want to see these workers being paid a livable wage equal to what is paid in this country. This would provide these people with the ability to purchase the goods they are making, and giving us a stronger neighbor where its residents didn't feel the need to escape poverty.
And now its time for all of you so called christian protectionists to explain why its better to build a fence along our southern border. And maybe explain the difference between these people and the residents of a country to the north of us that doesn't need such a fence.
Bob, what about the law....... I'll come over at 3am and raid your fridge...
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#5
Jan 18, 2010
 

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Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Bob, what about the law....... I'll come over at 3am and raid your fridge...
If you were as bad off as some of those folks, I'd gladly feed you.

Maybe then it would give me time to discover what has made you so determined to see that these people aren't given the same chance to prosper that you have enjoyed. Maybe you could see that if given a fair and honest chance, that they would make good citizens of either this country. And unless you are going to be able to show me some kind of proof that you are a 100% Native American, then your family tree has roots back in the same history that they want for their family.

Most of our families came from somewhere else in search of a better life for ourselves and our future generations. Where would you be today if the statute of liberty had been replaced by a locked gate?

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

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#6
Jan 18, 2010
 

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Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
If you were as bad off as some of those folks, I'd gladly feed you.
Maybe then it would give me time to discover what has made you so determined to see that these people aren't given the same chance to prosper that you have enjoyed. Maybe you could see that if given a fair and honest chance, that they would make good citizens of either this country. And unless you are going to be able to show me some kind of proof that you are a 100% Native American, then your family tree has roots back in the same history that they want for their family.
Most of our families came from somewhere else in search of a better life for ourselves and our future generations. Where would you be today if the statute of liberty had been replaced by a locked gate?
Most of the people who came here from Europe did it legally and went through the process to become Americans.

The people illegally coming over our southern border come here thinking they are owed something. They don't want to become Americans they just want live off of us. IMHO

Gets me wondering with lots of American companies manufacturing goods in Mexico why do they want to leave. Besides there are no jobs here and a better life in the US is becoming scarce. Thanks to our friends in congress.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

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#7
Jan 18, 2010
 

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Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
If you were as bad off as some of those folks, I'd gladly feed you.
Maybe then it would give me time to discover what has made you so determined to see that these people aren't given the same chance to prosper that you have enjoyed. Maybe you could see that if given a fair and honest chance, that they would make good citizens of either this country. And unless you are going to be able to show me some kind of proof that you are a 100% Native American, then your family tree has roots back in the same history that they want for their family.
Most of our families came from somewhere else in search of a better life for ourselves and our future generations. Where would you be today if the statute of liberty had been replaced by a locked gate?
So you are proposing to have completely open and unrestricted immigration where the loss of control of our boarders is a good thing? How are you going to track the new taxpayers? Why should we have restricted habitats in National Parks... Just open them up for communities to form. Let's just drop zoning laws while we are at it. Families living in tin shacks next to your house would be great..... Think Bob.....
SueT

Allegan, MI

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#8
Jan 18, 2010
 

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Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
If you were as bad off as some of those folks, I'd gladly feed you.
Maybe then it would give me time to discover what has made you so determined to see that these people aren't given the same chance to prosper that you have enjoyed. Maybe you could see that if given a fair and honest chance, that they would make good citizens of either this country. And unless you are going to be able to show me some kind of proof that you are a 100% Native American, then your family tree has roots back in the same history that they want for their family.
Most of our families came from somewhere else in search of a better life for ourselves and our future generations. Where would you be today if the statute of liberty had been replaced by a locked gate?
We are told that we must ignore the breaking of immigration laws by illegals because they are here only to do jobs Americans will not do and besides, many do pay taxes.
In order to pay tax, you must have a Social Security number, so now we must ignore breaking of identity theft laws. Those who work for cash and don't pay taxes, we must ignore, too. We also must ignore breaking laws against driving unregistered, uninspected and uninsured vehicles. Not having a valid license is also to be ignored.

It is OK that illegals access social services because all our needy citizens and senior citizens have all they need and there's more than enough to go around.

So fraud, theft of services, multiple driving and vehicle violations, illegal entry, identity theft, etc. are all to be ignored if you are an illegal; just don't try if you are a legal American immigrant or a citizen. And they say that crime doesn't pay.
Does anyone remember when this country had law abiding citizens?

Since: Sep 08

Saint Charles, IL

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#9
Jan 18, 2010
 

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I think this protest is about the heavy handed and possibly illegal activity of the Sheriff. He has been conducting sweeps that the DOJ is investigating. I understand the Black Panthers are also investigating the allegations.
qwertie

United States

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#10
Jan 18, 2010
 
I do gladly give thousands of dollars each year to help the poor, but they should not be allowed to steal from me.
Also, consider this. I live in America and abide by the rules. My job gets taken away and set up in Mexico. Thousands of Mexicans work down there at the company that had formerly hired me. I try to find another job up here, but illegal imigrants are getting hired ahead of me (I guess I'm overqualified in comparison).
Don't get me wrong, I have many Mexican-American friends. Many are wonderful people. The ones who bothered to do the imigration thing right are especially upset by those who didn't and are still using the system.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#11
Jan 18, 2010
 
Shoeless Eluder wrote:
<quoted text>Most of the people who came here from Europe did it legally and went through the process to become Americans.
The people illegally coming over our southern border come here thinking they are owed something. They don't want to become Americans they just want live off of us. IMHO
Gets me wondering with lots of American companies manufacturing goods in Mexico why do they want to leave. Besides there are no jobs here and a better life in the US is becoming scarce. Thanks to our friends in congress.
Your opinion may be honestly felt, but that doesn't mean it is completely correct.

People from Europe? People have come here legally or otherwise from all over the world. Look at the millions of Chinese laborers who came here during the 1800's. They came here because this country offered them the chance to make more money than they could at home. And they were treated like dirt by the European/Real Americans whose only true difference was that they came here from a different direction. I'm not even going to venture much of a comment on the number of Africans whose roots are much worse.

So why are immigrants from our southern border illegal? Maybe only because some of you Real Americans want it to be. They are coming here because they can make a better life for themselves. Manufacturers who have set up shop down there pay piss poor wages where these people can't even afford to buy the things they make.

That is the whole and terrible truth. If these companies paid a decent livable wage to their workers, there would be no reason to come here. But very little is different from invading a country to pillage its natural resources, than it is to go into a country simply to take advantage of their workers. The way NAFTA and other trade agreements are being used is little better than the way our European ancestors gained their wealth through colonization and exploitation of their foreign domains.

There is a very old axiom that says that you don't make yourself any taller by climbing atop the bones of your victims. Can you honestly think we're better off by holding our neighbors to a lower standard of living? Can you honestly say that we wouldn't all be stronger if our neighbors had the same chance at the independence and prosperity that we enjoy? Can't you see that one of the greatest things about our country is the ability to open our doors to the down and out people of this world?
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#12
Jan 18, 2010
 
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>So you are proposing to have completely open and unrestricted immigration where the loss of control of our boarders is a good thing? How are you going to track the new taxpayers? Why should we have restricted habitats in National Parks... Just open them up for communities to form. Let's just drop zoning laws while we are at it. Families living in tin shacks next to your house would be great..... Think Bob.....
I don't think anything of the sort. What I do see is that this country has the ability to absorb many more new legal residents. People who would find jobs, and become consumers in our country. They would purchase or construct real homes, and they would buy furniture and food to put in those homes. They would buy autos to get from those homes to work and back. These citizens would pay taxes, and raise the tax basis of schools and communities. And most importantly, they could fuel a resurgence in our faultering economy. It is the same thing that has happened everytime our country has openned our doors in the past.

Living in tin shacks may be the way these potential immigrants live now, and it most likely is the reason they want to come here so desperately. It isn't much different than some of the slums and tenements that our ancestors came from in Europe. We didn't all arrive on thiese shores with money dripping out of our pockets, and with wealthy relatives back home. Many times, a few people would come here, find jobs, and save enough for the rest of their families to join them. And yet with almost the same history, these European/Real Americans aren't living in tin shacks. Care to venture as to the reason for that?

Democracy and freedom needs to grow, or it will wither and die. This country is no different.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

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#13
Jan 18, 2010
 
GR Pete wrote:
I think this protest is about the heavy handed and possibly illegal activity of the Sheriff. He has been conducting sweeps that the DOJ is investigating. I understand the Black Panthers are also investigating the allegations.
What Constitutional Authority does the Black Panthers have and who are they accountable too....

“LETS DO THIS!”

Since: Mar 09

Ionia

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#14
Jan 18, 2010
 

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Why is it that bob doesn't understand those Mexicans can come here legally if they so choose. We have a process that people can take to become legal citizens of this country. Plus, you cant tell me that Mexico is THAT bad that they have no other choice than to come here. Its pure bullshit. I understand the country is rougher than what I am used to, but everyone seems to think that Mexico is the worst place on the planet. There are far worse places to live. I have no objections to people that want to live here going through the legal process, but for those that choose not to, well, to hell with them.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#15
Jan 18, 2010
 
SueT wrote:
<quoted text>
We are told that we must ignore the breaking of immigration laws by illegals because they are here only to do jobs Americans will not do and besides, many do pay taxes.
In order to pay tax, you must have a Social Security number, so now we must ignore breaking of identity theft laws. Those who work for cash and don't pay taxes, we must ignore, too. We also must ignore breaking laws against driving unregistered, uninspected and uninsured vehicles. Not having a valid license is also to be ignored.
It is OK that illegals access social services because all our needy citizens and senior citizens have all they need and there's more than enough to go around.
So fraud, theft of services, multiple driving and vehicle violations, illegal entry, identity theft, etc. are all to be ignored if you are an illegal; just don't try if you are a legal American immigrant or a citizen. And they say that crime doesn't pay.
Does anyone remember when this country had law abiding citizens?
Does anyone remember when this country had law abiding citizens?

I've studied enough of our nation's history to know that many so called Real Americans came to this country to face the same discrimination that many latin americans face today.

You are so worried about what laws that Illegals break, but have you ever considered the fact that we may have forced them to do so? After Katrina, many Real Americans resorted to looting. While we can all agree that somebody stealing a big screen TV was a crook, many surveys showed that people understood why a trapped person might break into a grocery store to find food and water to survive.

Have you ever considered that possibility that these people wouldn't have to resort to such illegal activities if they had a better choice? Perhaps an easier path to citizenship here, or maybe a chance to better employment at home?

Like it or not, we are the greatest nation in the world. Like it or not, we spend billions of dollars in aid each year to try to help the citizens of many countries much worse off than we could ever dream of. We do these things because we are trying, sucessfully or not, to show these people that there is hope that things in their country will get better.

President Obama has stated that he wants the USA to provide $100 Million dollars in aid to Haiti. To idealistic view would be that we are doing this simply from the viewpoint of charity. But the more pragmatic realist can see that we could be faced with another wave of Haitian Boat People flooding to our shores if things are left the way they are today.

The same reasoning can be used when we look at the plight of the average Mexican citizen who comes here illegally. It is simply an extension of Natural Law that mankind will attempt whatever it takes to survive and to better itself. No amount of immigration law regardless of how strict it is will change this fact.

I simply don't understand why so many people, who generations before came from the same circumstances, can't see that history is only repeating itself today. The options to this problem are very simple to understand, but seem so hard to see through to fruition.

Can't anyone understand that we would be better off to either build an more open path to becoming a legal citizen to this country, or to even better, build a path to a more prosperous neighbor to our south.
SueT

Allegan, MI

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#16
Jan 18, 2010
 
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Does anyone remember when this country had law abiding citizens?
I've studied enough of our nation's history to know that many so called Real Americans came to this country to face the same discrimination that many latin americans face today.
You are so worried about what laws that Illegals break, but have you ever considered the fact that we may have forced them to do so? After Katrina, many Real Americans resorted to looting. While we can all agree that somebody stealing a big screen TV was a crook, many surveys showed that people understood why a trapped person might break into a grocery store to find food and water to survive.
Have you ever considered that possibility that these people wouldn't have to resort to such illegal activities if they had a better choice? Perhaps an easier path to citizenship here, or maybe a chance to better employment at home?
Like it or not, we are the greatest nation in the world. Like it or not, we spend billions of dollars in aid each year to try to help the citizens of many countries much worse off than we could ever dream of. We do these things because we are trying, sucessfully or not, to show these people that there is hope that things in their country will get better.
President Obama has stated that he wants the USA to provide $100 Million dollars in aid to Haiti. To idealistic view would be that we are doing this simply from the viewpoint of charity. But the more pragmatic realist can see that we could be faced with another wave of Haitian Boat People flooding to our shores if things are left the way they are today.
The same reasoning can be used when we look at the plight of the average Mexican citizen who comes here illegally. It is simply an extension of Natural Law that mankind will attempt whatever it takes to survive and to better itself. No amount of immigration law regardless of how strict it is will change this fact.
I simply don't understand why so many people, who generations before came from the same circumstances, can't see that history is only repeating itself today. The options to this problem are very simple to understand, but seem so hard to see through to fruition.
Can't anyone understand that we would be better off to either build an more open path to becoming a legal citizen to this country, or to even better, build a path to a more prosperous neighbor to our south.


Bob, you have some valid points. But you are making the assumption that every illegal that enters this country is here to make a
"better life" for themselves.
That isn't the case. How many that come are illegal(s) and decide to stay that way giving them the chance to return to Mexico due to drug smuggling, those that end up in gangs and committ serious crimes.
How about the ones that jeopardize the lives of their kids walking numerous of miles through searing heat and don't have ample supplies (food and water) to support their coming across the boarder illegally.
If your being here is that important to you, then I say do it correctly. Go through the process that is being provided and do it legal.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#17
Jan 18, 2010
 
spartymclion wrote:
Why is it that bob doesn't understand those Mexicans can come here legally if they so choose. We have a process that people can take to become legal citizens of this country. Plus, you cant tell me that Mexico is THAT bad that they have no other choice than to come here. Its pure bullshit. I understand the country is rougher than what I am used to, but everyone seems to think that Mexico is the worst place on the planet. There are far worse places to live. I have no objections to people that want to live here going through the legal process, but for those that choose not to, well, to hell with them.
What I do understand is that the need far outweighs the restrictions placed on immigrants wanting to come from there. I know that we can't just open our borders to the kind of land rush we saw during the Mariel Boatlift. But I can only shake my head is disbelieve that you can say that life isn't THAT bad than to live in some places there. The next time you take your cruise to some vacation resort along the Mexican shores, ask to take a day trip into the neighborhoods where those friendly folks who wait on you live. Of course you'll be told that you're crazy, and that no Gringo is going to survive such a trip. And if you didn't know, the term is not a friendly one. While these folks strive to make a livable wage, they must retreat each day from resorts full of ugly americans to a home life that you couldn't or wouldn't be able to handle.

If you'd like to, go to you boss and tell them you want a paycut down to about 50% of what it takes to actaully live. Toss out your microwave and that self cleaning oven, then tell your wife to cook dinner on a fuel stove outside in the front of your tin shack. After dark, you can sit with your family and watch the lights twinkle from over the gated fences where you aren't allowed to visit and enjoy. But you are good enough to go there to work. Not for a decent wage, but maybe enough to survive.

Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones who gets a job at that auto factory, or at some other Yankee company. You'll get paid maybe $2 -$3 per/hour for your efforts, and you won't get any of the benefits the american workers used to get. Of course that is nowhere near what a migrant farm worker makes, and maybe you'll talk about that with your neighbors at night.

You really need to try getting a little insight into how life really is there. As a matter of fact, it much the same all over the world. And the one beacon that shines the way to a better life, sits right there in New York's harbor. It shines all the way across this country to cross our southern border. It shines across not onyl the Atlantic ocean, but the Pacific as well. But for some reason, you and so many others want to extinguish that light. For some reason, you have lost sight of why your family came to these shores.
Bentely

Rockford, MI

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#18
Jan 18, 2010
 
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Bob, what about the law....... I'll come over at 3am and raid your fridge...
What happens when he pulls out his shotgun and shoots your head off?

“LETS DO THIS!”

Since: Mar 09

Ionia

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#19
Jan 18, 2010
 
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
What I do understand is that the need far outweighs the restrictions placed on immigrants wanting to come from there. I know that we can't just open our borders to the kind of land rush we saw during the Mariel Boatlift. But I can only shake my head is disbelieve that you can say that life isn't THAT bad than to live in some places there. The next time you take your cruise to some vacation resort along the Mexican shores, ask to take a day trip into the neighborhoods where those friendly folks who wait on you live. Of course you'll be told that you're crazy, and that no Gringo is going to survive such a trip. And if you didn't know, the term is not a friendly one. While these folks strive to make a livable wage, they must retreat each day from resorts full of ugly americans to a home life that you couldn't or wouldn't be able to handle.
If you'd like to, go to you boss and tell them you want a paycut down to about 50% of what it takes to actaully live. Toss out your microwave and that self cleaning oven, then tell your wife to cook dinner on a fuel stove outside in the front of your tin shack. After dark, you can sit with your family and watch the lights twinkle from over the gated fences where you aren't allowed to visit and enjoy. But you are good enough to go there to work. Not for a decent wage, but maybe enough to survive.
Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones who gets a job at that auto factory, or at some other Yankee company. You'll get paid maybe $2 -$3 per/hour for your efforts, and you won't get any of the benefits the american workers used to get. Of course that is nowhere near what a migrant farm worker makes, and maybe you'll talk about that with your neighbors at night.
You really need to try getting a little insight into how life really is there. As a matter of fact, it much the same all over the world. And the one beacon that shines the way to a better life, sits right there in New York's harbor. It shines all the way across this country to cross our southern border. It shines across not onyl the Atlantic ocean, but the Pacific as well. But for some reason, you and so many others want to extinguish that light. For some reason, you have lost sight of why your family came to these shores.
Bob,

you need to stop with this. You are completely fabricating the truth. I have close friends that have family in Mexico. So before you start, I will tell you they are legally and got here through the legal process. Their family stayed there because they preferred it there. While they acknowledge that the country as a whole is poorer, they still live a decent life there. The world is not a bunch of poor rats and we are the only nice country, as you have basically put it. I have actually had 2 different foreign exchange students that have lived with my family as I was growing up. This was early to mid 90's so not that long ago. They actually said that we live a very restricted life here in the States and they wondered where "THE LAND OF THE FREE" was?

Bob, why do you have the assumption that the rest of the world needs to come here? Why do you think that all the rest of the countries on earth are in shambles? Its simply not true.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#20
Jan 18, 2010
 
spartymclion wrote:
<quoted text>
Bob,
you need to stop with this. You are completely fabricating the truth. I have close friends that have family in Mexico. So before you start, I will tell you they are legally and got here through the legal process. Their family stayed there because they preferred it there. While they acknowledge that the country as a whole is poorer, they still live a decent life there. The world is not a bunch of poor rats and we are the only nice country, as you have basically put it. I have actually had 2 different foreign exchange students that have lived with my family as I was growing up. This was early to mid 90's so not that long ago. They actually said that we live a very restricted life here in the States and they wondered where "THE LAND OF THE FREE" was?
Bob, why do you have the assumption that the rest of the world needs to come here? Why do you think that all the rest of the countries on earth are in shambles? Its simply not true.
If what I'm saying is wrong, then please explain in a truthful manner, the reason so many are trying to come here. Did your close friends only come here because they enjoy the cold and snow? Why did your forefathers come here?

And I don't think that the rest of the world Lives Like Rats. But they can see that this country offers much more opportunity than the nations they come from. They don't NEED to come here. What they NEED is the chance to enjoy the prosperity and freedoms that we enjoy. Frigidaire hiring people at 1/10th the wage they paid in Greenville doesn't help anyone but the few shareholders who sit fat and happy back here trying to keep THE FENCE up.

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