First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

#21 Dec 1, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Oneal...
I'm compelled to take issue with your comment "If you want the economy to flourish, the government needs to butt out of businesses."
The reverse may be even more important and necessary. Getting big business out of the pockets of politicians is paramount.
The corruption begins with big business. Whom do you actually think sets the minimun wage numbers? Remember, big business has to keep the profit percentage at the max.
How many elected Tea Party candidates have kept their promise of not accepting big business money and gifts? Hint...none.
An example is the governor of Virginia. The money he and his wife accepted as "gifts" was only to benifit his big business friend. He got caught but I can't even imagine the numbers of politicians that don't.
There is an inevitable overlap between government and business. We both know letting business set wage, and hours and safety standards won't work. As well as many other standards regarding building codes, handicap access, zoning, emissions from cars trucks and businesses. Food and drug safety and regulation. It goes on and on.
The seperation needs to be not letting big business influence our politicians and government processes.
The regulations or whatever you were referring to by government on big business has been compensated for by big business by passing on the costs to it's employees and consumers to protect their bottom line...make lots and lots of money at the cost of everyone else.
You're more than welcome to your opinion, but with all due respect I'm not going to get into another roundabout argument with someone who believes the government does not influence or compel businesses to play the game. It's naive to think the government is not complicit in the corruption, as guilty as any big business. Solyndra alone should put that notion to rest.

I'm not saying "iseestupidpeople" (I wish he/she would change his name), is right or wrong. He's welcome to a theory just like you are, and it sounds like "stupid" isn't blaming one entity over another any more than I am. It's a long-baked system of corruption and collusion, all by people wielding fabulous earned wealth and people with all the power of the government, and then people like lobbyists and union bosses, social leaders and so on down the line.

What's missing from that back room deal-making is the middle class worker, the one with no influence but a vote, the one with no wealth or elected power. The one that would put a stop to the corruption and cronyism if allowed because it's in his best interest to have an honest system in place. I get all of that. The question is, what do we do about it?

I'm not saying we let big business run amok in a lawless fashion. The government is responsible for holding corporations and industries accountable to work within the law of the land. But on the same level, just saying we need to let government put a bootheel on businesses is about the dumbest idea I can think of - yet that seems to be what people who believe that "corruption starts with businesses" are supporting. Keep allowing the government to grow in power and influence and there will be no competition, no ingenuity and no motivation. Let a free market work within the laws of the land and you will get competition and ingenuity, with plenty of motivation from all.

So, how does America create a business climate that is not beholden to politicians' interests beyond being held accountable to the established laws of the land, and is not able to corrupt the system by influencing politicians?

Rather than argue endlessly about who is at fault, I think that is the question we should all be seeking solutions.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#22 Dec 1, 2013
Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
You're more than welcome to your opinion, but with all due respect I'm not going to get into another roundabout argument with someone who believes the government does not influence or compel businesses to play the game. It's naive to think the government is not complicit in the corruption, as guilty as any big business. Solyndra alone should put that notion to rest.
I'm not saying "iseestupidpeople" (I wish he/she would change his name), is right or wrong. He's welcome to a theory just like you are, and it sounds like "stupid" isn't blaming one entity over another any more than I am. It's a long-baked system of corruption and collusion, all by people wielding fabulous earned wealth and people with all the power of the government, and then people like lobbyists and union bosses, social leaders and so on down the line.
What's missing from that back room deal-making is the middle class worker, the one with no influence but a vote, the one with no wealth or elected power. The one that would put a stop to the corruption and cronyism if allowed because it's in his best interest to have an honest system in place. I get all of that. The question is, what do we do about it?
I'm not saying we let big business run amok in a lawless fashion. The government is responsible for holding corporations and industries accountable to work within the law of the land. But on the same level, just saying we need to let government put a bootheel on businesses is about the dumbest idea I can think of - yet that seems to be what people who believe that "corruption starts with businesses" are supporting. Keep allowing the government to grow in power and influence and there will be no competition, no ingenuity and no motivation. Let a free market work within the laws of the land and you will get competition and ingenuity, with plenty of motivation from all.
So, how does America create a business climate that is not beholden to politicians' interests beyond being held accountable to the established laws of the land, and is not able to corrupt the system by influencing politicians?
Rather than argue endlessly about who is at fault, I think that is the question we should all be seeking solutions.
I have but one simple question...If big business is in the pockets of literally every politician, just whom is controlling big business and making them play some..."game"?
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

#23 Dec 1, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
I have but one simple question...If big business is in the pockets of literally every politician, just whom is controlling big business and making them play some..."game"?
How do you know big business is in the pockets of literally every politician? AND, how do you know that it isn't some politicians making offers these businesses can't refuse? Regulations and taxes are expensive, ya know. Maybe a little campaign contribution might just cause me to forget those regulations ... wink wink nod nod...

Again, Wiggley, I'm not going to go round and round on a notion that is unrealistic. To think that the politicians are somehow victims in this clandestine fleecing of the middle class is naive beyond what I think is your intelligence.

This is not an either or situation. They are BOTH involved. You can't just blame business and empower government or you'll wind up subservient to those that write the laws.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#24 Dec 1, 2013
Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know big business is in the pockets of literally every politician? AND, how do you know that it isn't some politicians making offers these businesses can't refuse? Regulations and taxes are expensive, ya know. Maybe a little campaign contribution might just cause me to forget those regulations ... wink wink nod nod...
Again, Wiggley, I'm not going to go round and round on a notion that is unrealistic. To think that the politicians are somehow victims in this clandestine fleecing of the middle class is naive beyond what I think is your intelligence.
This is not an either or situation. They are BOTH involved. You can't just blame business and empower government or you'll wind up subservient to those that write the laws.
In no way have I implied politicians are the victims of anything. They are certainly the willing recipients of cash and other rewards for furthering the will and profits of the businesses that put them in office.
Here is a small but perfect example...
http://washingtonexaminer.com/bob-mcdonnell-e...

Another would be the disturbing articles regarding Justin Amash. It's not the people who are going after him, it's...businesses. Read up on it...they are the ones who stand to gain or lose.

Of course it's the involvement of BOTH politicians and business. That's the point...right now our government is controlled by big business. They contribute more money to election campaigns than anyone or any group and certainly expect a payback after their candidate wins.

pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#25 Dec 1, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
In no way have I implied politicians are the victims of anything. They are certainly the willing recipients of cash and other rewards for furthering the will and profits of the businesses that put them in office.
Here is a small but perfect example...
http://washingtonexaminer.com/bob-mcdonnell-e...
Another would be the disturbing articles regarding Justin Amash. It's not the people who are going after him, it's...businesses. Read up on it...they are the ones who stand to gain or lose.
Of course it's the involvement of BOTH politicians and business. That's the point...right now our government is controlled by big business. They contribute more money to election campaigns than anyone or any group and certainly expect a payback after their candidate wins.
Well said.
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

#26 Dec 2, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
In no way have I implied politicians are the victims of anything. They are certainly the willing recipients of cash and other rewards for furthering the will and profits of the businesses that put them in office.
Here is a small but perfect example...
http://washingtonexaminer.com/bob-mcdonnell-e...
Another would be the disturbing articles regarding Justin Amash. It's not the people who are going after him, it's...businesses. Read up on it...they are the ones who stand to gain or lose.
Of course it's the involvement of BOTH politicians and business. That's the point...right now our government is controlled by big business. They contribute more money to election campaigns than anyone or any group and certainly expect a payback after their candidate wins.
And the politicians expect those campaign contributions or your company might just find it's way into an audit ... wink wink nod nod.

It goes both ways, Wiggley, which is why one doesn't "control" the other. If you just say big business controls the politicians you're leaving out the influence government has over big business - and in a very real manner smaller and mid-size businesses too.

The question still stands to both you and "Stupid": What can be done to break this cycle that doesn't let big business run roughshod or give the government more power than they were ever intended to wield? I don't have an answer to that, but I can tell you stepping on the throats of industries like coal, or picking and choosing winners such as Solyndra, like the progressives have been doing, isn't it.

I contend that if government stayed out of business's way, in so much as business obeys the laws of the land, competition would flourish. With competition comes better wages, better service, better product and lower costs.

We can't have businesses making all the rules, but we can't have government interfering where they don't belong.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Grand Rapids Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
21st century huberis flips the bird to national... 19 hr bobolinq 1
Sturgis latino festival (Aug '07) 21 hr sturgis urinal 6
Hillary says, "Businesses Don't Create Jobs" Wed Oneal 3
"I was in a state of denial:" West Mi... Wed cora arch 1
Voting Machines Changing R Votes To D Votes ...... Wed Oneal 4
Back in Iraq. WMD's? oil? Tue Phil 121
Tea Party Reality Tue Oneal 1
Grand Rapids Dating
Find my Match

Grand Rapids People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Grand Rapids News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Grand Rapids

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]